My Prespective as an Affiliate, Advertiser and Network Owner on Scrubbing and Shaving

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LazyD said:
This may be getting off the track of what this post is really about, but considering I just faced an issue myself with either my affiliate id/domain being completely scrubbed through a network I wont name, for a certain offer. I would love if someone could shed a little light on a situation like this.

The offer itself is an email submit, I know everyone bitches up and down that email submits are garbage but it was converting decently. According to the systems stats ive been converting at 17% (I know I know, they may be bloated). My traffic is a result of organic SEO and PPC, my keywords are extremely targetted and as a result, the overall traffic is extremely targetted. The offer was going fine for a few weeks then bam, completely shut down, my AM let me know that the advertiser is scrubbing ALL leads coming from my domain. He couldnt tell me why but said that they would try to find out.

What would/usually leads to an advertiser completely scrubbing out an entire domain/pub with traffic extremely targetted to a site and the offer its running? From what my AM mentioned, he doesnt seem to think its an issue with shitty traffic. Any thoughts?
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Email/Zip submit advertisers make money as people go through the path and opt in for other services or buy other products. I believe that those companies who run these offers will leave the scrubber off, but over time based on the amount of forms your user fills out they will begin to scrub the traffic, first they scrub out duplicates, and go from 1 day dup scrubs to 90 and even one year dup checks against their entire DB which is in the hundreds of millions of consumers. Second they might arbitrarily scrub a percentage from 5 - 100%

This happens all the time to search publishers only, because typically search traffic is crap for email/zip offers. If you want to run Zip/Email submits on search figure out how to add some good quality email traffic in the mix and you wont be scrubbed,
 


Thanks Mike

The goal of the PPC to the site is not solely or primarily for the Email submit, its to build a list/small time arbi. The email submit was more of a 'Fuck it, ill see if I can grab some extra coin out of it' kind of afterthought.

Considering I am building a list, I will definitely try a mailing, however, I gotta check with the network to make sure the offer will be tracking correctly before I go dumping that many emails with the offer in it.

Aside from emailing my list, is there anything I can do to get off the advertisers shit list? I still dont think im sending garbage traffic, I get about 50% of my traffic from PPC, the rest is organic and referral from extremely related sites.
 
LazyD said:
Thanks Mike

The goal of the PPC to the site is not solely or primarily for the Email submit, its to build a list/small time arbi. The email submit was more of a 'Fuck it, ill see if I can grab some extra coin out of it' kind of afterthought.

Considering I am building a list, I will definitely try a mailing, however, I gotta check with the network to make sure the offer will be tracking correctly before I go dumping that many emails with the offer in it.

Aside from emailing my list, is there anything I can do to get off the advertisers shit list? I still dont think im sending garbage traffic, I get about 50% of my traffic from PPC, the rest is organic and referral from extremely related sites.
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For the email submit type offers search is the worst form of traffic it doesnt work well for the advertisers, display and email are usually the best forms of traffic.
 
I'm not talking about Network EPC. Network EPC is worthless as every traffic source is different. I'm talking about affiliates tracking there own EPC's and as Mike said the network $/affiliates clicks tracked.

By the way Mr AdExhibit, I've been watching your posts on here and I find most very spammy. Please start delivering some value to affiliates. I ask you have long were you an affiliate before you started spamming WF with your network offers?


AdExhibitJason said:
Yeah that makes sense. However another thing that we should note is that the EPC goes by all payouts for that offer.

If you are going to analyze it never go off the network EPC, You have to remember there is probably someone killing that offer and over inflating it on our side.

So I guess in retrospect, Make your own system to compare. Go off of us a a basis for what offer you chose but do not rely on what we are showing. Not because we are being shady but because you are seeing what everyone is doing.

I would like to add.

Shaving Clicks. WOW
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Rob I agree with you 100%. I request all the direct advertisers I work with tell me the conversions suck for the affiliate ID so we can adjust price. The shady behind the scenes shaving pisses me as well as any affiliate worth warm piss and understands what's going on, off.

Rob_TID said:
Great post Smaxor and I am not trying to bust your balls, but this really bugs me:



It isn't my problem. THEY assume that risk when they nominate that they only want an email submit. If they want the person to fill out 10 other leads and purchase a TV before they accept him as "legitimate" traffic, then they should stipulate that in the offer description so **I** can make the decision as to if my traffic will convert. Their backend sales process is out of my hands.

Shaving is stealing no matter which perspective you see it from.

I can see why they do it, but I can see why people rob banks too.
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Stanley I know this is going to sound out of the ordinary. But I usually lay it all out there. But that's how I like to do business. However I don't work with AM's or networks that I can't trust. I don't jump from network to network for that reason. I know I can IM my AM on a network and say I'm looking at doing xyz and they're not going to go spread it around. I also feel that way because I believe I'm to valuable ( not bragging just I know how much I make them because I own a network ) to a network for them to fuck me like that. However be careful man because there's a lot of shady cats out there. I heard a story just the other day of a fellow as the top guy on a network for an offer. They copied his landing page, then told all their affiliates what he was doing. I'd be sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo pissed if someone did that to me. But he was in a situation where they had the best converting offer for him, so he didn't say anything. So in part you have to speak up when you get fucked over. I'd have had the network owner on the phone and chewed his head off personally.

To the networks defense if the offer was very well seen like advertised on major keywords and out in the public easy to find the affiliate might have requested the offer based on that knowledge. This is very different then AM's saying hey affiliate A is getting rich doing this you should do this then copying them.

As a network there's a very fine line to walk as I see it. It's very hard because you have 1-2 affiliates that make what 3k affiliates make combined. So you have to keep those people happy. The honesty and integrity is the best way as I see it. Now don't get me wrong I have a Blackhat SEO badge attached to my name. So when I speak of this it's my dealing with other people in the industry, not about traffic generation strategies. Just wanted to set that straight in case someone was saying "hmm strange all this is coming from a bh seo" :)

Stanley said:
How much disclosure do you provide regarding the traffic source?
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smaxor said:
I'm not talking about Network EPC. Network EPC is worthless as every traffic source is different. I'm talking about affiliates tracking there own EPC's and as Mike said the network $/affiliates clicks tracked.

By the way Mr AdExhibit, I've been watching your posts on here and I find most very spammy. Please start delivering some value to affiliates. I ask you have long were you an affiliate before you started spamming WF with your network offers?
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How was the post you quoted spammy. I would just like to know. I am not trying to be do not like to be mentioned as so.

also the end what you are asking. is have suppose to be how.
 
You mean... Is "have" supposed to be "how"?

Notice the quotes and question mark.
 
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