No bailout for you.

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nevele said:
apparently the 700B pricetag was a market test.
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Very true. This is like your typical salesman tactic to ask for the higher extravagant price, then come back with something less like 250 billion. They are using well known marketing tactics to get what they want.

turbolapp said:
Ok so whats the answer? ...
I don't know about you guys, but this scares me.
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Hey turbolapp. It's been a long time! Good to see you.
This is the other tactic that Bush and members of Congress are using to push the bill. Fear of the unknown. I just watched C-span last night where Democrats against the bill stated the S & L scandal. That took less than 2 billion dollars to solve and was not billed to the taxpayer. The billionaires and millionaires are trying to influence our elected officials.

turbolapp said:
Honestly, if that's the case; No bailout now and we end up feeling the pain of another recession
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We've been in a recession for 2 years now. Bush finally woke up when his stock portfolio started to dwindle.

turbolapp said:
I think they're going to be surprised at the result (recession, job losses...etc) and get really pissed all over again. (Which is why the elected officials are tap dancing back and forth)
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Good point. Unfortunately there is no guarantee that these business owners are not going to produce massive lay offs anyway. Job loss has been continually growing each month. When it comes to the bottom line, employees are the top expenses that will be cut. Our financial system is in a crisis because of horrible leadership. This bailout to buy mortgage securities islike pulling a lighter away from a child and handing them matches. An understanding of the situation must be assessed before we act on any type of rescue plan. As far as I am able to gather, this bail out will affect the average citizen if they want to get a loan from a "Big Bank" for school, a loan for a car, or get approved for a credit card. Smaller banks that had good financial sense will continue to loan people money and give them credit. Support for this bill does not increase the financial aptitude of these business owners or the average citizen.
 


Don't get excited. They will ignore our wishes (I mean, who the fuck are we, anyway?) and pass some form of the bill. The only reason it didn't pass the first time is because every member of the House is running for reelection and they want to be able to pretend to they tried to do something. They only need 12 more votes, and they'll get it.

The funny thing is, ever since this shit started happening I've been watching the price of gas drop every day...
 
As much as i hate to see the bailout pass, we need to realize the Fed is going to bail these pukes out regardless, the bill just makes them follow some guidelines, as flimsy as they may be. We had a recession back in 90-91, what happened then, NOTHING. We are not gonna fall as a nation. It will not effect the average person all that much. These pukes need to be allowed to fail or dig tehmselves out of this mess themselves.
 
There isn't a better solution. The only solution is to do............ (drum roll)

NOTHING.

The market will correct itself. I'm sure putting some of the regulations back in place that have been "relaxed" over the last 10 years or so would help....

That correction is gonna be hard - but dragging it out with a wee little bailout (700 billion doesn't scratch the surface of the amount of bad debt we are dealing with) is just a way to say "we tried to help you" at re-election time.
 
I just received the most absurd newsletter email from Restoration Hardware: "Bailout Approved," with a $100 coupon off $400. The message is, "the country's broke, so go shopping!"
 
Sohan said:
I hope the house votes NO.
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They had better or they will NOT be re-elected. Those "people"in Senate are not up for re-election so they are doing whatever they want. I wonder why MC Cain is voting for such an erroneous bill. And Obama saying we got to help the rich in a bill he "hopes" will help. It seems to me that both of these guys received funding from these companies and now they are forced to help. I guess that is why public funding for our elected officials should continue and the private funding must stop..

BlueYonder said:
I just received the most absurd newsletter email from Restoration Hardware: "Bailout Approved," with a $100 coupon off $400. The message is, "the country's broke, so go shopping!"
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Hah! Guess we can all go out and spend money! That bailout is awash with filters that will mean that the average consumer will be left holding an empty bag of promises. This is what will happen. The credit freeze will loosen until the House of Representatives get the bill. That way these Senators will look like they showed good judgement and they were right. If the House passes the bill we will see the credit freeze thaw temporarily until these companies want to recoup their losses. It will occur within a years time or 18 months at the most. If theis bill is not approved by the House. Then the market will correct itself. Credit happy users will be screwed and some financially responsible people will be hurt too. It will take 3 years to recover which is better than this band-aid on a knife wound that will take us 10+ years to recover.
 
i heard a lot of people were being knida "threatened" in a way. some people spoke out and said that if they din't vote for it that martial law would be decalred as a sort of fear mongering to get people to vote for it.
 
CCLIND said:
We had a recession back in 90-91, what happened then, NOTHING.
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The circumstances are totally different. The deficit was smaller, there was not trillions in derivatives and mortgages that no one can value, the dollar is weaker, instead of a single country short war, there are multiple long term fronts, and the domestic economy has already been inflated and isn't responding any longer to liquidity injections.

I will be amazed if they can paper over this one. It might be enough to get me to believe in God again.
 
guerilla said:
It might be enough to get me to believe in God again.
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Are you referring to this being a sign of the pending Apocalypse? According to my mom, the end is near.

And to quote maynard....Some say we'll see armageddon soon. Certainly hope we will. I sure could use a vacation from this... bullshitthreeringcircussideshow of... Freaks!
 
What really makes me sick is the fact that both Obama and Mccain voted for this bill laden with pork. Also the fact that the Senate bypassed the traditional laws of the land that state all tax bills must originate in the House. The American people were swindled by Bush. This is a travesty. Now we have a pony show of "hearings" in the house to figure out the housing crisis. It sounds similar to the hearings on the gas hike. It is a waste of tax payers money and an insult to our intelligence.
 
turbolapp said:
Are you referring to this being a sign of the pending Apocalypse? According to my mom, the end is near.
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No, just how unlikely it is that inflation and debt are going to solve a multi-trillion dollar inflation and debt problem. What they are doing is taking someone with multiple gun shot wounds, and trying to shoot him with a machine gun until he stands up.

tony115 said:
What really makes me sick is the fact that both Obama and Mccain voted for this bill laden with pork. Also the fact that the Senate bypassed the traditional laws of the land that state all tax bills must originate in the House. The American people were swindled by Bush. This is a travesty. Now we have a pony show of "hearings" in the house to figure out the housing crisis. It sounds similar to the hearings on the gas hike. It is a waste of tax payers money and an insult to our intelligence.
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Yes, Obama and McCain, vote together, against the will of the people, and in line with Bush. Now maybe people will understand, there isn't really a lick of difference between these guys. No matter who gets elected, it will be business as usual, and even Obama is going to follow the same sort of horrible policies Bush has proposed.

There is no difference. And people who think there is, are definitely seeing things that aren't there. The special interests run Washington. That's how you get a bogus war that is wildly unpopular, but no one will end, and then you get a bogus bailout that is wildly unpopular and gets passed.
 
Since 99,9% of ppl don't have any idea about economics (including me), it shouldn't matter whether we are against the bailout or not.

Imagine the bailout would solve probs but fails because 300,000,000 retarded ppl are whining about it. That would suck.
Perhaps we really could have bigger problems without it, perhaps our "eulogized" taxpayer money will be worth shit without it
 
Mr.Garrison said:
Since 99,9% of ppl don't have any idea about economics (including me), it shouldn't matter whether we are against the bailout or not.
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Take that a step further, and let's do away with our democratic republic altogether and just install a dictator. That's dangerous thinking.
 
Mr.Garrison said:
Since 99,9% of ppl don't have any idea about economics (including me), it shouldn't matter whether we are against the bailout or not.

Imagine the bailout would solve probs but fails because 300,000,000 retarded ppl are whining about it. That would suck.
Perhaps we really could have bigger problems without it, perhaps our "eulogized" taxpayer money will be worth shit without it
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Include congress in your 99.9%. 400 Economists including 3 Nobel Prize winners wrote to Congress and told them not to rush to pass this bill.

You see, your theory is based on the notion that "the people" are too stupid to know if a law is good or not, but supposedly 0.1% do know.

Have you looked at the fucking retards who make up that 0.1%? People like McCain who can't even fucking email and they were in charge of the telecommunications industry. Most of the banking committee didn't even know there wasn't a gold standard (since 71) until Ron Paul told them. People like Obama, who thinks there are 57 states and Palin who doesn't know of any Supreme Court decisions besides Roe vs. Wade.

These people are like DPers who stumble to WF to sell an ebook.

You wouldn't let them run your campaigns if they paid you. Why kowtow to their supposed superior knowledge?
 
The real problem began in the 1980's when home equity loans started to become more common. I remember hearing analysts say that it was a disaster in the making. Fast forward 20 years and it rings true.

People financed their lifestyles with HEL and HELOC's. As long as home prices kept going up, the equity available through HEL's and HELOC's kept increasing. Home owners took advantage of it and that's why we had a negative savings rate. In order to keep the system well lubricated, sub prime mortgages were made. This kept home sales artifically high and kept home prices spiraling.

All of this worked as long as there was demand, but the increase in oil prices and commodities in general along with reseting interest rates meant that people defaulted on their mortgages. All of a sudden, the supply of homes overtook the demand for homes and prices began to fall. Thanks to the prevalence of HEL's and HELOC's, people could not borrow from their home's equity, but instead, people now have negative equity.

The boom in consumer spending is over. Without a manufacturing base and with a service industry that has found itself outsourced, it's a grim future indeed.
 
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