Obamacare starting to look more appealing.

aggregate your wife's "miniscule" problem with the rest of Americans and add all the illegal fucks that have come over here raping our school systems, social programs and health care and then....then you have a HUGE FUCKING PROBLEM.

Obamacare RUINS the Health Care industry. You think it's fucked up now. Just you wait. The goddamn insurance companies wrote the fucking bill.

Obamacare = LESS CARE
Obamacare = Private Practices shutting their doors
Obamacare = Increased health care costs

and it wont be long before Codex starts restricting the amount of Vitamins you can take.

Nothing against your wife. I'm sure she is a lovely person - but what you are saying is WHACK! Obama is a goddamn idiot.

Good Luck Bros.
 


Most of the people the bitch about health care reform are younger people or people that currently have good health care, or people that have no health issues.

Get denied coverage when you have cancer, or your daughter or close family member dies due no coverage and you will sing a different tune.

I don't mind paying extra to help the whole, the immigrants are already getting our money this is not going to make a difference..

To the O.P, there should be plan in place that already covers people that get denied, check into it. There is a pool here in Texas already.
 
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All these people saying fuck the insurance companies or nationalize them - did you forget they're just regular companies like the ones you own? And they're just trying to make a buck?

Get the fuck over yourselves - nobody owes you shit. I'm sorry your wife has a rare condition or whatever, but that's just the way it is - forcing taxpayers to foot the bill is definitely not the answer. That just drags everybody down.
 
zingo said:
Most of the people the bitch about health care reform are younger people or people that currently have good health care, or people that have no health issues.
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I thought you were going to stop posting in STS because you valued your ability to do business on the forum more than your ability to put your foot in your mouth?
 
Healthcare should not be a profit making business venture. EVERYONE deserves free healthcare, it's a human right you fucks. Any 1st world country should be able to provide free healthcare and free education to its citizens. It boggles the mind that some of you think otherwise.
 
Yeah yeah yeah, everyone wants something for nothing as long as the money to pay for it come out of someone elses pocket. I got denied on a 25,000 claim THIS YEAR for a c-section, but I still don't think it should be free for everyone.

Why don't you bitch about how in order to deduct medical expenses they have to exceed 20% of your income? Now THAT is fucked up.
 
If you want to make a difference in heath insurance, protect the doctors so that malpractice suits don't drive THEIR insurance rates through the roof. They are simply passing their expense on to the consumer.

The 1,000 layers of attorneys and malpractice insurance, etc etc is probably 90% to blame. There should be no guarantee on medical service rendered, within reason. In America you have the right to CHOOSE your doctor.
 
Demon said:
Healthcare should not be a profit making business venture. EVERYONE deserves free healthcare, it's a human right you fucks. Any 1st world country should be able to provide free healthcare and free education to its citizens. It boggles the mind that some of you think otherwise.
Click to expand...

Everyone who is POOOOOR gets free healthcare. Just try it - go to the doctor with $0 in your pocket and $0 to your name. They won't turn you away.

You act like there are people just dying in the streets because the hospitals are turning them away when in reality, poor people get treated much faster in the USA than in 90% of the rest of the world.




---------------

Summary: Healthcare should not be free, but it should actually cover you when you get sick. Without all the bullshit riders, etc I'm happy with the price I pay ($420/mo) to cover 5 people with private insurance.
 
Demon said:
Healthcare should not be a profit making business venture. EVERYONE deserves free healthcare, it's a human right you fucks. Any 1st world country should be able to provide free healthcare and free education to its citizens. It boggles the mind that some of you think otherwise.
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That is a scary statement. You are saying everyone deserves free healthcare. But what you are really saying is:
Doctors should be forced by law to give up their time and resources to take care of people, without getting compensated.

I wonder if you were running some profitable PPC campaigns and the government came by and said you were to profitable, and it is a right for everyone to be financially stable. Therefore, you have to put other people's affiliate links in your PPC ads, but you keep paying for the ads - if you would still have the same outlook.

You are saying that the government with power of the law, and the ability to enfoce laws (with guns), should hold guns to Doctor and nurses and force them to perform their jobs for free.

You forget that it is a human right to own your own self and not have others be imposed on you. Your statement says doctors and nurses do not have that right.

As for the illness thing. I agree something needs to be done. I dont think Obamacare is the answer, but that does suck that just because of one illness, you are denied coverage. That really sucks.
 
Assuming you are serious,

Demon said:
Healthcare should not be a profit making business venture.
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Of course it should. If it was not profitable, people would not invent new treatments, nurses would not work overtime if there is a labor shortage, people would not pay for, and invest the time to go to medical school.

Capital investment always flows to the profitable sectors of an economy. And the provision of health care, like the provision of food, clothing, housing, education, security and transportation, is indeed a function of the economy.

The reason why health is profitable is because we value it. We value it a lot, and thus there is a lot of profit in servicing a high demand market, not just for quantity, but also for quality.

Demon said:
EVERYONE deserves free healthcare, it's a human right you fucks.
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It is not a human right. In order to give one person free healthcare as a right, you have to say that everyone else in the society is obligated to give up their needs for that one person, regardless of circumstance (because it is a right, and rights are absolute).

Many people use the word "right" without understanding what it means. Something can only be a "right" when it does not conflict with someone elses rights. That's why we don't have a right to food for example. If we did, then everyone would have to share their food until everyone had an equal amount. It's not only irrational, it is impossible to enforce.

I advise you to do some reading on negative and positive rights. What you are proposing is a positive right, and it cannot be defended intellectually or morally without contradiction.

Demon said:
Any 1st world country should be able to provide free healthcare and free education to its citizens.
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It is not free. Someone has to pay for it.

Anyone who generates a significant income knows this because they are the ones paying for it.

The government has no money. It can only take from the private sector and redistribute it. That some people cannot see theft for what it is, and actually believe in a "free education" or "free healthcare" bureaucratic fairy is disturbing to say the least.

Demon said:
It boggles the mind that some of you think otherwise.
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Right back at ya.
 
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Spendlessly said:
Everyone who is POOOOOR gets free healthcare. Just try it - go to the doctor with $0 in your pocket and $0 to your name. They won't turn you away.

You act like there are people just dying in the streets because the hospitals are turning them away when in reality, poor people get treated much faster in the USA than in 90% of the rest of the world.
Click to expand...

That's the problem with our system right there. People don't have insurance so they don't go to the doctor's for routine stuff, then they end up in the hospital because small health problems have a way of getting real bad if not taken care of. Then the hospitals have to treat them, absorb the cost - then pass it on thus causing the actual "cost" of health care to skyrocket. That's one of the major reasons why despite a private health care system we have the highest costs of any system.
 
dreamache said:
I want to pay for her health insurance, they won't let me.
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This is lunatic. I have heard of people being denied coverage even for being diagnosed with acne. I heard of a baby being denied coverage because he was born chubby, his obesity being a pre-existing condition.

Can you imagine losing everything due to medical bills caused by a car accident because you were once diagnosed with pimples? WTF?

Whatever your politics, it's obvious that we can't continue on this course. Obamacare is an imperfect start that tries to address these problems. It was intended to be improved upon and adjusted as parts of the law are implemented and tested.

I'm as much a capitalist as anyone, but health care is a special case that requires standards and mandates from the government to prevent this kind of profiteering and abuse. The free market got us here, because it's far more profitable for insurance companies to deny care to the sick than to pay up.
 
Unarmed Gunman said:
That's the problem with our system right there. People don't have insurance so they don't go to the doctor's for routine stuff, then they end up in the hospital because small health problems have a way of getting real bad if not taken care of. Then the hospitals have to treat them, absorb the cost - then pass it on thus causing the actual "cost" of health care to skyrocket. That's one of the major reasons why despite a private health care system we have the highest costs of any system.
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That's one aspect. Another one is because health insurance is tax free when paid for by employers, they give it to employees in lieu of a pay increase.

This pushes people into these plans they do not actually pay out of pocket for (like "free" government healthcare) where the person with the service uses it without any regard for cost. History has shown that when people have to pay for something, they are much more economical about using it.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6eIBvrMY5w"]YouTube- Broadcast Yourself.[/ame]
 
BlueYonder said:
health care is a special case that requires standards and mandates from the government to prevent this kind of profiteering and abuse.
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Can you explain why it is a special case?

BlueYonder said:
The free market got us here, because it's far more profitable for insurance companies to deny care to the sick than to pay up.
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That's not the free market.

In the free market, government would not have created the tax incentives for everyone to utilize insurance when they should be paying out of pocket for routine care, and only using insurance for major medical issues.

In the free market, government would not have provided medicare and medicaid, driving up costs by subsidizing a massive portion of health care spending for seniors.

In the free market, people would be able to buy insurance out of state, instead of being denied access to competition by ... ta da.. the government!

When people say that free market healthcare has failed, it is like saying fascism is freedom.

You should watch the video above, as it seeks to explain to people that pervasive distortions in the market originate with legislation and government mandates.

Give this a read, it isn't very long.

How Government Solved the Health Care Crisis
 
anyone who thinks the health care system in the US doesn't need fixing is out of their fucking mind.

A public option run at 1-2% overhead and non for profit is better for the overall economy then having one of the most profitable industries in the world running rampant, extorting the public for all they are worth. It creates competition putting greedy ass health insurance companies in check. "but how do e pay for it?!" end a war and you'll have money left over.

I hate welfare cheeses just as much as anyone else, but the people that run around like nothing is wrong with america's health care need their heads out of their asses.


wow i hate political threads.
 
"one of the most."

on your list, pharma and medical equipment is up there.

Despite growing political pressure and tough economic times, the (top 5 for profit) companies cashed in on double-digit rate hikes to report profits of $3.2 billion in the first three months of 2010, up 31 percent from the same period last year, according to a new report by Health Care for America Now, an advocacy group.
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Soaring Health Insurance Profits Fuel Push To Limit Rate Hikes

Im done here. bye.
 
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