Obamacare starting to look more appealing.

pretty funny how the idiots in this thread saying that there shouldn't be a public health care system don't give a shit about other rights being taken away.. like the PCNAA Bill that's prolly gonna get through this time because ... O WAIT ITS TO PROTECT US FROM THE TERRORISTS!!11

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-20007418-38.html?tag=mncol;title

Won't even talk about the "patriot act" that no one apparently cares about either.
 


pretty funny how the idiots in this thread saying that there shouldn't be a public health care system don't give a shit about other rights being taken away.. like the PCNAA Bill that's prolly gonna get through this time because ... O WAIT ITS TO PROTECT US FROM THE TERRORISTS!!11

Senators propose granting president emergency Internet power | Politics and Law - CNET News

Won't even talk about the "patriot act" that no one apparently cares about either.

Some of us "idiots" care, ricdes. More than you can imagine. More than can be expressed on an anonymous forum.
 
Wrong. I want to pay for her health insurance, they won't let me. That's the problem. I'd be fine if they excluded anything that could result from raynaud's, we would at least like coverage for shit like physical injuries, occasional prescription meds, etc.

I understand your situation.

I have a pre-existing condition, a pretty serious one, that absolutely guarantees the only way I can get insurance coverage is through a group plan. So even though I work from home and make a good living (and would be able to pay for health insurance), my wife must go out and work a set minimum number of hours, just so I can get coverage too.

What I think there needs to be is some sort of high risk pool for those with pre-existing conditions who cannot currently get coverage. Allow them to pay what would be a normal (or even 20-30% higher than normal) monthly premium, with a reasonable deductible. I believe some states have this now, but it needs to be nationwide, imo.
 
They got you right where they want you: Problem, Reaction, Solution.

Yeah yeah, so what you're saying is, if for example you had a loved one (son/daughter/wife) who was denied coverage on the basis of some stupid illness that *could* result as being expensive (in my case), you would refuse a plan that would have them covered which were paid by taxpayers?

I guarantee you 99% of the people who say "yes" would change their mind if they ever found themselves in that situation.
 
Why don't people understand that as soon as you offer things for free quality goes down? Why don't people understand that some people deserve better things if they work for them? Why don't people understand that some people deserve less if they choose not to work for them? Why don't people understand that if we really want free healthcare we should have family, a neighbor or a friend start offering it? Why don't the people who want free healthcare ever offer it to others? Why are the supporters always on the receiving end and not the giving end? Why is the government always the entity of choice to administer these free programs? Why is it called universal healthcare but then they give you insurance? Why is insurance tied into healthcare?

Do people understand that by wanting somebody else to take care of you you are giving your power away? This is what serfs do. They have the king take care of them. But we actually HAVE the option of not being slaves but we CHOOSE to be slaves. Are we that blind? Are we that pathetic? The whole thing is an absolute joke. People by their actions are saying, I am unable to take care of myself, save me king. Save me. I thought Americans were supposed to be their own sovereign kings. So much for freedom. Let's bring on the king. I'm amazed at how incredibly sick this whole thing really is. People are never going to figure it out. Technocratic feudalism here we come :)


I presume you have insurance. Let's say there's an "experimental" or "cosmetic" or "not approved" or "no it's a monday and we're meeting our Q3 numbers and we're not going to fucking approve this" procedure that would likely save your (or your spouse's) life but TA DAH- it's not covered by your "just fine" insurance.

So you say - okay- I'll pay out of pocket - all bigtime soverign kinging it up.


But THEN- OMG you find out that it's going to be $800k in costs, and those have to be paid up front.

Still okay with that?
 
Yeah yeah, so what you're saying is, if for example you had a loved one (son/daughter/wife) who was denied coverage on the basis of some stupid illness that *could* result as being expensive (in my case), you would refuse a plan that would have them covered which were paid by taxpayers?

I guarantee you 99% of the people who say "yes" would change their mind if they ever found themselves in that situation.

but idiotic hypocrisy while yelling things like "FUCK SOCIALISM" is the American way!
 
That is a scary statement. You are saying everyone deserves free healthcare. But what you are really saying is:
Doctors should be forced by law to give up their time and resources to take care of people, without getting compensated.


yes, because talk to any doctor who's malpractice insurance costs have tripled in the last decade- they're TOTALLY onboard with FOR PROFIT insurers and the government protection these businesses receive.

Are you that shallow- you do realize that with a nationalized health care program doctors aren't forced at gunpoint (lol gunz) to work yet instead are paid - arguably MORE <when you take away the people they employ just to deal w/ billing, take away the out of control rising malpractice costs, etc> by the government.

They aren't slaves and there's no way you're this stupid. But trying to regurgitate some Foxnews/Glenn Beck/Hannity/Rush/O'Reilly argument isn't easy I know.
 
yes, because talk to any doctor who's malpractice insurance costs have tripled in the last decade- they're TOTALLY onboard with FOR PROFIT insurers and the government protection these businesses receive.

Are you that shallow- you do realize that with a nationalized health care program doctors aren't forced at gunpoint (lol gunz) to work yet instead are paid - arguably MORE <when you take away the people they employ just to deal w/ billing, take away the out of control rising malpractice costs, etc> by the government.

They aren't slaves and there's no way you're this stupid. But trying to regurgitate some Foxnews/Glenn Beck/Hannity/Rush/O'Reilly argument isn't easy I know.

So you are saying that under a national health care system, doctors will have the option of NOT treating people with gov't health care? WRONG. Every doctor will be forced by the gov't to treat people with national health care.

Therefore, the docs are slaves to the gov't. And if they get regulated out of business, but keep performing medicine, they will be arrested by people with guns.
 
Yeah yeah, so what you're saying is, if for example you had a loved one (son/daughter/wife) who was denied coverage on the basis of some stupid illness that *could* result as being expensive (in my case), you would refuse a plan that would have them covered which were paid by taxpayers?

I guarantee you 99% of the people who say "yes" would change their mind if they ever found themselves in that situation.
It's funny how people's opinions change when shit gets real. Did you agree with the health care bill passage before you had to deal with your situation?

I suggest to those who hate the bill and believe the government is evil: Dig in and try to improve the way the health care bill is written. It's meant to be improved.

The government isn't going anywhere (you'd miss it if it did, trust me), and neither is the bill. I agree the bill needs work to encourage more competition, so improvement can come next.

This is where we stop idealizing about the government we want, and work to improve the government we have.

Hanging out here is sucking my productivity into a black hole. Argue away. Till laterz. :bowdown:
 
All these people saying fuck the insurance companies or nationalize them - did you forget they're just regular companies like the ones you own? And they're just trying to make a buck?

They aren't just like companies we own. They are unique in their business model in that they get paid with the hope that we never need to utilize what we pay for. The fact that they get their premiums from us whether we make a claim or not throws a wicked curve ball into the equation, resulting in.... ta da rescission panels! I've got no respect for a company that is finally called upon to hold up it's end of a mutual bargain and instead tasks its employees for looking through hundreds of documents for a single incorrect date or missing signature to deny some unlucky bastard fighting for his/her life the chemo therapy they need to survive.

The networks we work with could (and sometimes do) decide to not pay, tell us to fuck off and to roll the dice with a lawsuit if we think it's worth it. Aren't they "just trying to make a buck" like the insurance companies that decide the most cost effective course of action is to risk litigation instead of just paying the damn claim like they advertised they would?

Any insurance company with rescission panels should have its board of directors doused in gasoline and set on fire.

Why you can't trust your health insurer. - By Timothy Noah - Slate Magazine
 
pretty funny how the idiots in this thread saying that there shouldn't be a public health care system don't give a shit about other rights being taken away.. like the PCNAA Bill that's prolly gonna get through this time because ... O WAIT ITS TO PROTECT US FROM THE TERRORISTS!!11

Senators propose granting president emergency Internet power | Politics and Law - CNET News

Won't even talk about the "patriot act" that no one apparently cares about either.

Myself and guerilla most definitely care, as do most libertarians. The Patriot act is an abomination to our rights. Emergency control of the internet is also a horrible infringement. So is forcing me (or anyone else) to pay for some 500lb obese smoker single mother's healthcare and childcare.
 
Yeah yeah, so what you're saying is, if for example you had a loved one (son/daughter/wife) who was denied coverage on the basis of some stupid illness that *could* result as being expensive (in my case), you would refuse a plan that would have them covered which were paid by taxpayers?

I guarantee you 99% of the people who say "yes" would change their mind if they ever found themselves in that situation.

Let's just cut the BS. Were you aware that over 1/3 of your taxes goes towards paying the INTEREST on the national DEBT? While we think that socialism is working in America it couldn't be further from the truth. 1/3 of the taxes people pay doesn't go towards helping other people, it doesn't go towards funding education or any of these FAKE humanitarian organizations. It goes straight to the banks that own the Federal Reserve, which could be removed Constitutionally by Congress when the American sheeple decide the time is right to stop being slaves. But until that time, we are going to continue to be fleeced like the sheep we are. I know that socialism is a complete fraud in America, and any other country for that matter. It doesn't work. The people who benefit from socialism are not the people it is intended for. Minimum wage doesn't make people more money. Government education doesn't make people smarter. Welfare doesn't create working class people. It's all a scam. Period.

But let's assume it wasn't a scam. If I had a loved one who had some expensive illness that could not be covered by the immediate family there are a number of solutions: I could get a loan. I could ask people around me to help. I could have some of my extended family help. I could go to a cheaper doctor. Or if I had no other options I would just have to sit back and watch the person suffer. Big deal. Shit happens. We don't live in a perfect world. But why on earth would I expect somebody who doesn't want to pay, the taxpayer, be forced pay for my misfortune? Are we really so selfish as to force somebody else to take care of our problems? How did this person get sick? What caused it? Should I still be forced to pay if it was self-inflicted? Would me paying not entice them to self-inflict even more damage for me to pay for? Why is it up to one person to take care of another if they don't want to? If they want to pay fine. But if they don't want to pay, why should the government force them to do so? It is going against nature and universal law. I know Nazis that like to force people to do things, not so much free people. Free people leave it up to others. They don't bring the SS in to taddle on people and force them to comply.

There's really nothing more to say. You either can deal with taking care of yourselves and fix your own problems in your own community, or you can have the government force people to do things they don't want to do. The latter is by far the more selfish and immature answer and will always fail, as it has throughout history.

And again. This "healthcare" bullshit has nothing to do with healthcare. It has to do with insurance. As I've said earlier. What on earth does insurance have to do with healthcare? Why do we need insurance for healthcare?

But wait, you say. We need insurance to afford healthcare because these greedy corporations price healthcare so high! Capitalism is failing! OH NOES! The corporations are taking over! The free market doesn't work! Bullshit again. We have the government to thank for high healthcare costs. I'm going to say it again since nobody seems to understand: THE GOVERNMENT IS THE REASON FOR HIGH HEALTHCARE COSTS. As soon as the government stops regulating everything new businesses can enter the market and allow things to be priced as the market demands, not as the government sees fit. THAT IS THE PROBLEM. That is what needs to be fixed. There IS a reason as to why technology prices decline and healthcare prices rise. They both would decline if the government was kept out of medical as they are kept out of technology.

But the manipulators who are infinitely smarter than the sheep know how to throw the BS healthcare law into effect as the sheep will believe anything. This doesn't fix the problem. All it does is make the 30 million or so that are not insured get insured, compliments of the taxpayer. That's another 30 million people paying a nice little rebill to the insurance companies because the sheep were too stupid to figure out the scam. Get the government OUT OF HEALTHCARE so that prices can come down. I'm going to make this very clear: The socialists are not on your side. You may not yet be aware of it, but you're not supposed to be aware of it.

Are people that confused on the manipulation going on? Am I going to have to join the dark side so I can finally be on the side of the Rockefellers and the Rothschilds pointing and laughing at the sheep praising their enslavement and incorrect choices? Do I really need to join the bankers so I can finally agree with all the morons and their socialist ways while you line my pockets deep? Sometimes I think that is the only way I can come out ahead. I mean cmon people, I am trying to show you the way and you are fighting to be slaves. I don't even know why I waste my time sometimes.

I took my stand in the midst of the world, and in flesh I appeared to them. I found them all drunk, and I did not find any of them thirsty. My soul ached for the children of humanity, because they are blind in their hearts and do not see, for they came into the world empty, and they also seek to depart from the world empty. But meanwhile they are drunk. When they shake off their wine, then they will change their ways. - Jesus
 
Ok I am against this obamacare, but one thing I cannot see how you can agree with is forcing someone to purchase health insurance, I do not give a flying fuck what side of the coin you are on. If you think the government has a right to force you to purchase insurance, or impose a fine on you because you choose not to have insurance, I will flat out walk away in the middle of our discussion because you're a dumb fuck.

Let me explain further. Sure, it is best to have health care and the safe option, nobody disagrees with that. But, it still should be MY choice, and if I choose I want to be an idiot and not carry health insurance, fine let me suffer the consequences, DON"T FUCKING HIRE THOUSANDS OF MORE PEOPLE TO CHECK AND MAKE SURE I AM PAYING FOR HEALTH INSURANCE AND FINE ME $600 WHEN YOU FIND OUT I CHOSE NOT TO.

Yeah, and for everyone else out there that claims they are just looking out for our best interests, FINE. But where does that stop? They could say "You can't eat McDonald's anymore because we have your health in mind and that place is unhealthy" Sure, ridiculous example, but my point is what COULDN'T they use that excuse for?

/rant
 
Wrong. I want to pay for her health insurance, they won't let me. That's the problem. I'd be fine if they excluded anything that could result from raynaud's, we would at least like coverage for shit like physical injuries, occasional prescription meds, etc.

Um just pay the damn bill when she goes to the hospital?

Insurance is stupid. Its caused people with out it to have to pay too much.
 
Um just pay the damn bill when she goes to the hospital?

Easier said than done. Sure, a basic office visit for an annual checkup, a cold, etc... very easy to pay.

But other things aren't so easy. I don't know the total of all my hospital bills, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if it's over $1 million.