One Brave Mofo

[ly2 from WF]

Oh yay, the "sheeple" arugment. Yeah, that's a good argument. Instead of actually addressing the issues just make bleating noises and pretend your liberties are being violated.

You never answered the question. Do you propose they do away with the TSA? And if so, what do you propose they replace them with? Or would you simply prefer there were no security checks? What's it going to be man? Security or no? If you vote for secure checkpoints then by the nature of modern security they should employ the most thorough screening measures available no? Or do you prefer half assed security instead?

Get the fuck rid of them. TSA agents are one step above welfare recipients. They have never stopped an attack and I seriously doubt they ever will. Send the worthless fucks back to the unemployment office where they belong.

Also: For fiscal year 2011, the TSA had a budget of roughly $8.1 billion.

That 8.1b would have made for great campfire fuel.

 

[Karnul]

...You never answered the question. Do you propose they do away with the TSA?...

This question pokes at the core of the entire big government argument -- which is why I ignored it. Your question assumes that security at airports is my problem, or our problem. It's not, just like I don't give a fuck what security casinos or banks are using. If I go into a bank and they want to search my junk - the guards better be some hot damn bitches, or I won't use that bank.

You are a smart guy Fatbat, so I don't think I need to expand on this.

We face a choice:

1. Government solves problems best. The cost are astronomical, and most agree unsustainable -- we are likely heading for economic collapse in X years by choosing this path.

2. Government is not our best choice to solve problems. We take government out of every area possible and allow free market solutions. The cost to the tax payers -- Zero. Those that believe this is the best solution also think we will experience an economic boom.

Do you want #1 or #2?

 

[DanWesson]

Airports in the US may be government owned, but they are filled with people working for private corporations who have every right not to be filmed while they do their jobs. You can't film in a grocery store so what makes you think you'll be filming at an airport? If an airport doesn't want you filming, you won't be filming.

lolwut?
Since when can't you film in public? Hint, a grocery store is a public place.

They can set whatever rules they want to set. If you don't like them, don't fly.

And this is why security should be a private sector option, not a government-mandated porno search. Those who prefer to keep our dignity would seek out the airports or carriers who profile and detain suspicious individuals rather than those that prefer to perform full-on body scans on granny.

You guys are fucking funny. You think you should be allowed to do what you want, where you want, when you want and fuck everyone else. "Do away with the TSA!!!" and then what? Replace them with what? Or would you prefer that there were no security checks when moving airside at an airport? You're damned if you do, damned if you don't. Everyone bitches and moans about airport security but if there's an attack then they'll be bitching and moaning that not enough is being done (see Russia for example). You can't have it both ways.

See above

Shut the fuck up, do what they say, and move through the security checkpoint as quickly and efficiently as possible because you're holding up the line. Is that so difficult?

Speechless.

Are you an ex-pat or do you just like commenting on things that don't apply to you except when you come to visit the states?
Because if you're not an American, then it's you who needs to shut the fuck up and understand that you do not have the "right" to "feel" safe. period. You don't like it if Americans will trade the extremely unlikely chance that they will die in a terrorist attack on an airplane, for keeping their dignity and the freedom from an unnecessary search/grope/scan? Then don't fucking fly to the US. Its your fucking choice right?

...the people have spoken and this case will be used in all further incidents as precedent.

And this is why the rest of you crying troll or whatever you call the guy are simply wrong.

 

[JakeStratham]

Good read at the link below. Murphy's great at dissecting issues from an economic perspective. Krugman fans need not click.

The TSA's False Tradeoff - Robert P. Murphy - Mises Daily

http://mises.org/daily/4863

 

[GreeLee]

One reason a coach watches video of a game over and over - is so that he can find weak points in a defense. One video tape of the process is an invaluable tool for anyone trying to penetrate our defenses. - Why are so many of you ignorant to this fact? It seems highly appropriate that you should NOT be videotaping this process. If I were there, I'd have followed him outside the airport and given him the good attention he was seeking. It's so easy anymore to pick out the people that were never disciplined as a child. A brave person would have whipped this asshole long ago.

 

[davidne]

lolwut?
Since when can't you film in public? Hint, a grocery store is a public place.

Grocery stores = private property lulz

One reason a coach watches video of a game over and over - is so that he can find weak points in a defense. One video tape of the process is an invaluable tool for anyone trying to penetrate our defenses. - Why are so many of you ignorant to this fact? It seems highly appropriate that you should NOT be videotaping this process. If I were there, I'd have followed him outside the airport and given him the good attention he was seeking. It's so easy anymore to pick out the people that were never disciplined as a child. A brave person would have whipped this asshole long ago.

Uhhh, what? Airport screening really isn't that complicated...they ask you for ID and a boarding pass, you go through an X-ray or a body scanner. Anybody with a 5 minute memory span is about as useful as a video. I'm sure you could do a google search for how airport security technology works and find 10x more info.

 

[DanWesson]

Grocery stores = private property lulz

I meant accessible to the public, smartass. :thefinger:

Unless there is another law I'm unfamiliar with, it is allowable to film in a publicly accessible space such as retail (or an airport), unless specifically prohibited by the property owner via some form of notice.
Obviously local laws could differ, but filming indoors on private property generally used by the public is not widely illegal as alluded to in the post I responded to.

 

[GreeLee]

Uhhh, what? Airport screening really isn't that complicated...they ask you for ID and a boarding pass, you go through an X-ray or a body scanner. Anybody with a 5 minute memory span is about as useful as a video. I'm sure you could do a google search for how airport security technology works and find 10x more info.

Yep - you have no clue. There's much more to it than that. Experience here, so there's no point trying to put forth your retarded argument.

 

[MadMaxNine]

Yep - you have no clue. There's much more to it than that. Experience here, so there's no point trying to put forth your retarded argument.

 

[Fatbat]

I meant accessible to the public, smartass. :thefinger:

Unless there is another law I'm unfamiliar with, it is allowable to film in a publicly accessible space such as retail (or an airport), unless specifically prohibited by the property owner via some form of notice.
Obviously local laws could differ, but filming indoors on private property generally used by the public is not widely illegal as alluded to in the post I responded to.

There's a big difference between a "public place" and a place of business accessible to the public. The later often has rules prohibiting filming, ie, most grocery store chains forbid filming and photography on their premises. It's not illegal, it's against the rules. I never suggested it was illegal hence the part where I said "they can put whatever rules they want in place".

For those of you spouting the usual "well YOU'RE not American, it's not YOUR personal freedom's being trampled on", Airport security is the issue we're talking about here, not the trampling of the Constitution and your personal liberties. You're getting the two mixed up. An airport is a high security zone. If the people running the place don't want you filming there you won't be filming, simple as that. It has nothing to do with your rights. If you want to fly you pretty much leave them at the door. You don't get to say what you want, go where you want, or do whatever you want in an airport and the sooner you come to terms with that the better.

 

[JakeStratham]

At Fatbat:

I have a question for you. Let's forget the guy filming the officers in the airport. Let's instead focus on the TSA. If I understand your position, you believe the existence of the TSA is warranted. My question is, why do you feel this way?

Airport security experts have continuously argued that TSA is ineffective at stopping attacks.

TSA costs billions each year.

1. Do you feel airport security experts are incorrect? That is, you believe TSA is actually effective at stopping attacks.

2. Do you believe there is an economic justification for TSA given their poor performance?

Here, you alluded to the need for government-directed airport security in the context of the recent episode in Russia. This piece at Time.com argues that Russia (i.e. politicians/slave-masters) set the stage for that attack long ago. A similar argument has been made that the U.S. government has done the same. Bin Laden's comments have been quite clear about this.

I don't wish to argue about filming officers. Nor do I wish to debate whether TSA should exist. But I do want to better understand your reason for telling others to "shut the fuck up and do what they say."

Shut the fuck up, do what they say, and move through the security checkpoint as quickly and efficiently as possible...

Y'know, with a couple tweaks, I can almost hear Mubarak's people saying this to the Egyptian protesters. Or, U.S. parents for that matter.

 

[Hav3n]

For those of you spouting the usual "well YOU'RE not American, it's not YOUR personal freedom's being trampled on", Airport security is the issue we're talking about here, not the trampling of the Constitution and your personal liberties.

See this is where you're wrong.

There is no separation in any of this.

As soon as you separate your rights from anything... you don't have any rights.

This is a slippery slope issue. If you give an inch they'll take a mile.

 

[DanWesson]

I never suggested it was illegal...

You can't film in a grocery store so what makes you think you'll be filming at an airport?

I don't know. The implication seems clear to me, but perhaps I'm just being nitpicky, since you've explained your comment in this subsequent post.

For those of you spouting the usual "well YOU'RE not American, it's not YOUR personal freedom's being trampled on", Airport security is the issue we're talking about here, not the trampling of the Constitution and your personal liberties. You're getting the two mixed up.

You know, I could have taken your opinion, quietly disagreed with it, and easily left that part out. However, you came up with this priceless piece of garbage:

Shut the fuck up, do what they say, and move through the security checkpoint as quickly and efficiently as possible because you're holding up the line. Is that so difficult?

There are several posts ITT that are of varying degrees if ignorance. Yours, specifically the part quoted above, just happened to be the most jarring and offensive.
I don't want this to become the norm for Americans: "Just shut up and do as you're told." That is why I am grateful for people like Mocek who have the balls to do things like this.

+rep to Hav3n for saying what I was trying to, much more succinctly than I am able.

 

[JakeStratham]

First, sorry for the bump. This is related to TSA, and I don't want to clog STS with another thread.

Here's the story:

Due to the heat TSA attracted by groping grannies and kids, a few airports decided to move forward with the Screening Partnership Program. Basically, it's an opt-out. Private screeners would take over duties from TSA, and work according to standards set by TSA.

Currently, there are 16 airports that have made the move. The program was expected to expand.

Until yesterday.

John Pistole, TSA head honcho, said this:

"I examined the contractor screening program and decided not to expand the program beyond the current 16 airports as I do not see any clear or substantial advantage to do so at this time."

Of course.

A response from Rep. John Mica (Florida):

Told of the change Friday night, Mica said he intends to launch an investigation and review the matter.

"It's unimaginable that TSA would suspend the most successfully performing passenger screening program we've had over the last decade," Mica said Friday night. "The agency should concentrate on cutting some of the more than 3,700 administrative personnel in Washington who concocted this decision, and reduce the army of TSA employees that has ballooned to more than 62,000."

"Nearly every positive security innovation since the beginning of TSA has come from the contractor screening program," Mica said.

And from the CNN piece (or, if you prefer Fox):

A union for Transportation Security Administration employees said it supported the decision to halt the program.

"The nation is secure in the sense that the safety of our skies will not be left in the hands of the lowest-bidder contractor, as it was before 9/11," said John Gage, president of the American Federation of Government Employees. "We applaud Administrator Pistole for recognizing the value in a cohesive federalized screening system and work force."

Yeah. I'll bet. lol

 

[crackp0t]

Airports in the US may be government owned, but they are filled with people working for private corporations who have every right not to be filmed while they do their jobs. You can't film in a grocery store so what makes you think you'll be filming at an airport? If an airport doesn't want you filming, you won't be filming. They can set whatever rules they want to set. If you don't like them, don't fly. That is your right after all, freedom to choose. Film is also a great way to reconnaissance a location and do research on possible security weaknesses so it's kind of a no brainer that it might be frowned upon in a high security location.

You guys are fucking funny. You think you should be allowed to do what you want, where you want, when you want and fuck everyone else. "Do away with the TSA!!!" and then what? Replace them with what? Or would you prefer that there were no security checks when moving airside at an airport? You're damned if you do, damned if you don't. Everyone bitches and moans about airport security but if there's an attack then they'll be bitching and moaning that not enough is being done (see Russia for example). You can't have it both ways.

Shut the fuck up, do what they say, and move through the security checkpoint as quickly and efficiently as possible because you're holding up the line. Is that so difficult?

Oh I dunno maybe go back to they way it was before the TSA? I can actually remember when going to the air port was a good experience.

 

[Karnul]

...I can actually remember when going to the air port was a good experience.

Ahhh the good 'ole days...

Airports are now a tension-filled, dehumanizing experience. I'm shocked at the number of people content with the status quo.

 

[JakeStratham]

News update:

TSA can now unionize.* From the piece:

John S. Pistole, the former deputy director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation who has served as head of the transportation agency since last June, announced Friday that he would used the power granted to him by Congress to authorize collective bargaining by airport security personnel on a limited set of topics, including rules governing who gets priorities for vacation time and shift assignments, how workplace transfers take place and how employees are recognized for commendable work. The negotiations will take place on a national level, not with state or local union affiliates.

Good grief. No wonder Pistole killed the Screening Partnership Program.



* h/t to Tucker at Mises.