Owning all Google Slots?

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cyberworkspace

cyberworkspace

Beat Me @ MyStockBet.com
Feb 2, 2007
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has anyone of you ever owned all google adwords slots? i mean all positions from 1-8 for one keyword, so that there would no alternative for any customer other than to land on your offer?

i mean, in principle it would just require 8 domains, 8 adword accounts and 8 times the same list of keywords being promoted with a quite high cpc. well, for some keywords even the latter would not have to be the case as you can get some good impressions for some low money sometimes.

however: has anyone ever done it? total domination? is that maybe the clue to really profitable marketing, the equivalent of a monopoly?
 


I don't know about that, but I know that affiliates own the first page for almost any online college. I've had a terrible time trying to find the homepage for several universities.
 
cyberworkspace said:
has anyone of you ever owned all google adwords slots? i mean all positions from 1-8 for one keyword, so that there would no alternative for any customer other than to land on your offer?

i mean, in principle it would just require 8 domains, 8 adword accounts and 8 times the same list of keywords being promoted with a quite high cpc. well, for some keywords even the latter would not have to be the case as you can get some good impressions for some low money sometimes.

however: has anyone ever done it? total domination? is that maybe the clue to really profitable marketing, the equivalent of a monopoly?
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It's not allowed.
 
Juicify said:
It's not allowed.
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right, so all of us only have one adwords account promoting only one type of product with one keyword set at a time ;)

so, lets use our imagination and pretend that we would have more than one adwords account for our own purpose, and would run multiple instances of our one keyword list and would promote the same product via various url's.
 
Could work, maybe not. You get much more traffic, so you have to pay much more. But you don't have as many competitors, but instead the same user will click multiple of your ads increasing your costs more.
But I think it would work, but then, it's not allowed.
 
Juicify said:
But I think it would work, but then, it's not allowed.
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well, you say that it is not allowed, because you assume that this would be done by one entity. setting up 8 legal entities as owners of the adgroups which are managed by their one adgroup professional account is a different matter and totally legal ;)

Juicify said:
You get much more traffic, so you have to pay much more. But you don't have as many competitors, but instead the same user will click multiple of your ads increasing your costs more.
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very good point. so it is balancing off that one lost click versus the mutliple clicks one would now receive. but it might be as well, that the second click brings in the conversion of the same customer, that the first click wasn't capable of.

so, all in all it comes down to a function, where we would have to know whether there is a difference in conversion rates between the adpositions. because if a position 1-3 converts with 5% and 4-6 with 0.5%, nothing is gained if you need a 2% conversion to break even.

is there anything like this openly available? conversion rates per adcopy-slot?
 
cyberworkspace said:
well, you say that it is not allowed, because you assume that this would be done by one entity. setting up 8 legal entities as owners of the adgroups which are managed by their one adgroup professional account is a different matter and totally legal ;)
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Well you do what you want but I warn you. Even if you have multiple legal entities, you are 1 brain behind it.

we don't allow advertisers or affiliates to have any of the following:

* Ads across multiple accounts for the same or similar businesses.
* Ads across multiple accounts triggered by the same or similar keywords.
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cyberworkspace said:
is there anything like this openly available? conversion rates per adcopy-slot?
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Maybe this http://www.adido-solutions.com/cms/site/docs/eyetools_google_search_lrg.jpg
 
Juicify said:
Well you do what you want but I warn you. Even if you have multiple legal entities, you are 1 brain behind it.
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i really appreciate, but this is just a saturday night mindgame for the time being ;) in the end, there surely is no escaping the big g, so this plan would require much more preparation to work out anyways. although i guess i could fly under their radar a bit as long as i don't name the companies cyberworkspace1 - cyberworkspace8 ;)

Juicify said:
Maybe this http://www.adido-solutions.com/cms/site/docs/eyetools_google_search_lrg.jpg
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[/quote]

this is great. so, that is what people like to click. great info!
now, all we need to know on top is, how well people clicking the links are converting.
 
This would not work. Google is smarter than you. They catch this type of thing really quick, even with different domains and accounts. I can think of about 5 ways they could detect this, so I'm sure they can too.
 
SonicReducer said:
This would not work. Google is smarter than you. They catch this type of thing really quick, even with different domains and accounts. I can think of about 5 ways they could detect this, so I'm sure they can too.
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well, there is no doubt that google is smarter than me, but that has never been the question ;)

the question was, whether anyone else was smarter than google but obviously not up until now.

so, it takes a groups effort to know how to do this. so: what are the 5 ways that would allow google to detect such a scheme, so that we can think about countermeasures.
 
I agree with Sonic, there are many ways to detect this. If you try it, make sure to have a 'safe' account to fall back on.

If you hired (proxied) out different geo locations to launch this effort, it might work. It would have to be an organized effort... geez, now I sound like the sopranos.

Hey, but A++ for thinking outside the box!
 
dealasite said:
I agree with Sonic, there are many ways to detect this. If you try it, make sure to have a 'safe' account to fall back on.
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I AM NOT TRYING RIGHT NOW, AND I DON'T INTEND TO :)

this was just an intellectual experiment, something to think about, THATS IT :)

anyways i have never heard of anyone getting his adwords-account banned. maybe his campaigns were halte,d but banning adwords makes not much sense.
 
dealasite said:
Seriously, cyber, you are so right... I've never heard of an adwords account being banned. Go for it then. You promise to share the results, right?
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hahaha, you are doing this on purpose, are you ? ;)

i am NOT GONNA do it now :)

i have a hard time getting into the affiliate business at all... but these are questions that come to my mind when i am composing lists for my new campaigns.

but yeah. should i ever gonna do it, i will of course let you guys and girls know. in fact i could even think of a group project, were we try to dominate a certain keyword alltogether for testing purposes. :D
 
This doesn't seem complicated...Nothing I would even bother with as I'm too concerned about the basics..but essentially X amount of businesses X amount of accounts and corresponding locations to operate each account..therefore eliminating the need for proxy etc...either you operate on a schedule or you hire people to complete tasks for you in other countries... same as you hire out for anything else...but really you could just have family in other countries.. you know you live in Europe you have an Aunt in NY and a college buddy in Washington etc...like i said I'm just trying to do the basics and do it correctly so this is way over my head...to me it just seems greedy like you could spend more effort and time doing it right and not even worrying about "gaming" the system
 
Lee. said:
...to me it just seems greedy like you could spend more effort and time doing it right and not even worrying about "gaming" the system
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"greedy", "gaming". it almost sounds as if this business model would be something shady and unethical.

it is clearly not, because it is simply about maximising your profits, by gaining a larger market share. if that is not anyone's principle while doing business, he better stop doing business.

so, the main point is not, whether it is unethical or not. the main point is, whether profits can be maximised or not.

to answer this question, one would have to know what the conversion rate is for the various slots (and if there is any difference between them at all).

because only then we would know, if it is e.g. totally fruitless to aim for all slots as owning slot 4-6 might turn out to be a loser at all times and hence only increase advertising costs and decrease profits.

simple example: if i pay $1 for the top spot, and have a conversion of 1:10, my average costs for customer acquisition would be $10.

if the same advertisement costs $0.50 at slot 7, but has a conversion of 1:25, my average costs for customer acquisition would be $12.5.

in the latter case, i could still be profitable, if my the sales prize is above 12.50. but i have comparative costs of $2.50 versus the best alternative :)

so, it is absolutely crucial to know, whether slot positions have an influence on the conversion rate beforehand.
 
dealasite said:
Seriously, cyber, you are so right... I've never heard of an adwords account being banned. Go for it then. You promise to share the results, right?
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Plenty of adwords accounts have been banned. Primarily for people who had multiple accounts using them in an attempt to circumvent the rules.
 
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