Rick Santelli Is My Hero

Status
Not open for further replies.
I don't like what's happening either. And yes the age of no accountability needs to stop, but look at it this way, at this point, either way we're going to be supporting their asses.
You forgot the other possibility. Everyone will be broke. A system that supports losers (assume the use of that as valuefree as possible), has to take from winners. When winning provides less reward and losing provides more reward (per unit of effort) that is when socialistic policies start to come apart. You get people trying to default so they can defer their mortgage costs onto the "public", which is really, their neighbors. This causes class warfare, bad relations, and the neighbors who are forced literally at gunpoint to subsidize their less financially responsible neighbors will eventually give in and try to get a bailout too.

As long as we believe that bailouts one way or another are inevitable, then the age of no accountability will continue to pick up steam.

Rick Santelli is a complete moron and has no idea what homeowners on Main Street are going through. He is a fucken derivatives trader in Chicago and one couldn't be more disconnected from Main Streets reality than that.
That's just insults, not an argument. You're trying to attack his character instead of his position.

I suspect many who love Rick and his f'd up views are also JUST HAS disconnected from reality and have no idea what the Obama stimulus bill says and or what is really happening with homeowners. RIGHT?
There are many excellent analysis on the bill available at YouTube. I have yet to see one that disproves Santelli's position. Have you read the bill? It was obvious Obama's press secretary had not even though he claimed he had.

Differences in viewpoints are healthy for consumers of the media. However, Santelli is, in my humble opinion, way out of line. Should we label so-called banking experts that chopped up mortgages in to derivatives impossible to track as losers? Should we call the executives of companies that take government money and pay hundreds of millions in bonuses losers? Who knows…what I do know is that Santelli should be fired. Referring to American homeowners in distress as losers is not only detrimental to public debate, it’s patently un-American.
This is the most fascist thing I have read on this forum. Congrats Hitler. No one in the media should say anything contrary to public opinion, they should be fired for being anti-American. Anyone who speaks out against killing Jews is anti-German.

Sounds like something the neocons would say when someone would argue against spending a trillion dollars on a losing war in Iraq, and spilling the blood of innocents. It's unAmerican to question Bush as he destroys the world.

In your entire post, you didn't ONCE provide any proof that Santelli said anything incorrect.
 


The premise of the opposition to the housing bill isn't a lack of sympathy for families in tough economic times; There is not a single part of me who wants to see a hard-working family who fell on tough times lose their homes. What ever happened to relying on family and friends when times get tough instead of this communal (see: communism) effort to make sure nobody has to live with the repercussions of bad decisions?

"Bailing out" everyone who is in trouble sends the wrong message to our country that it's "okay" to act without thinking. It incentivizes laziness, and rewards fiscal irresponsibility.

I can't stand the victim-mentality of home owners who were "Tricked" by predatory lenders. When you sign those papers, you're signing a contract; you're testifying that you read the contract and understand it in it's entirety.

The passivity of American mentality is really scary.
 
Rick's little tirade seems to be more about getting himself some press attention than anything else.

He obviously didn't even bother to read any of the new "Homeowner Affordability and Stability Plan"

The White House - Blog Post - Help for homeowners

This plan isn't about bailing out the "losers" that haven't been paying their mortgages...

Under the Homeowner Affordability and Stability Plan, eligible borrowers who stay current on their mortgages but have been unable to refinance to lower their interest rates because their homes have decreased in value, may now have the opportunity to refinance into a 30 or 15 year, fixed rate loan. Through the program, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac will allow the refinancing of mortgage loans that they hold in their portfolios or that they placed in mortgage backed securities.

If you've missed a mortgage payment, you won't be eligible for a loan modification.
 
Rick's little tirade seems to be more about getting himself some press attention than anything else.

He obviously didn't even bother to read any of the new "Homeowner Affordability and Stability Plan"

The White House - Blog Post - Help for homeowners

This plan isn't about bailing out the "losers" that haven't been paying their mortgages...

If you've missed a mortgage payment, you won't be eligible for a loan modification.
Epic fail.

Watch after 2:00 to address this directly. Key points made starting at 4:00 mark.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmKHUUkhkzM"]YouTube - White House Press Secretary Defiles The Office of The President[/ame]


 
Some follow up

Karen DeCoster is a libertarian, a blogger and a CPA in Michigan

KarenDeCoster.com Web Log: Brownshirts Train "Victims" to Protest Private Property Rights Archives

LewRockwell.com Blog: Professional Squatters and ACORN Liars are "Homesteading"?

This is the sort of political payback this bill will facilitate. Acorn wants you to believe that people who refi'd a $90,000 mortgage for $270,000 (and spend the difference) are the victims here, deserving of a bailout. That if you got a mortgage, but couldn't pay it, you owned that home.

Basically, the honest mortgage holders are supposed to pay the $180,000 difference that was consumed by the person who refi'd, and was never the part of a rational valuation on the house. I wonder what they did on the money?

If you do not pay off your mortgage, you do not own the home. Plain as day. You don't get to own something if you pay 10%, 40% or 60% of the price you agreed to VOLUNTARILY!
 
Mmm, how so?

The homeowner has to be current on their mortgage to be eligible.
Just because they are current on a low intro rate mortgage, doesn't mean they are ready to accept responsibility for a mortgage that people have known for years would reset higher.

It's no different than if I bought furniture with no payments until 2010, then when the pain comes in 2010, I want someone to pay my bills for me.

Watch the portions of the video I indicated again. People re-fi to get better rates, but even if they do, that doesn't mean that they are bankrupt or that it is a crisis.

Consider, that if you have paid less than 50% of your mortgage, then I would argue that the person holding the mortgage owns the house more than you do. Shouldn't they be the ones getting the bailout? Sound reasonable?
 
shuttup guerilla, you sound like a mother f--kin' cold-hearted capitalist
I am a capitalist, but that is not cold hearted. ;) :D

What is cold hearted, is taking money from people who do things the right way, and give it to people who did things the wrong way. Socialism only serves one half of the equation, always at the expense of the other half.

Doctors take an oath, "do no harm". I would argue that if helping out delinquent home owners means forcing responsible home owners to bail them out, that is creating harm to do good. It's immoral. Jesus helped people with his own personal charity, he didn't rob from Peter to aid Paul.
 
I am a capitalist, but that is not cold hearted. ;) :D

What is cold hearted, is taking money from people who do things the right way, and give it to people who did things the wrong way. Socialism only serves one half of the equation, always at the expense of the other half.

Doctors take an oath, "do no harm". I would argue that if helping out delinquent home owners means forcing responsible home owners to bail them out, that is creating harm to do good. It's immoral. Jesus helped people with his own personal charity, he didn't rob from Peter to aid Paul.

Total agreement here. +rep
 
Trying to think outside the box here, but perhaps utilizing the idea of shelters would do some good.

Follow me here because I'm going to use stuff from the common experience, but try to build on it where it failed.

The Projects.
Here you've got high density tenement housing that was designed to alleviate the problem of poor people not being able to afford housing. Now, these failed for a few reasons.
A complete lack of amenities and services being the primary, but also things like thin walls (cheap construction) in such high density housing leading to living there basically being psychological torture... etc.

I'm thinking something similar, without it being abandoned midway through and leaving out all the things that were meant to make it liveable.
Medium high density housing, such as 2-3 story townhouses packed closely together with communal gardening areas (with a couple of things for teens, such as skating facilities) and the additional construction of ammenities & services potentially including security services. This should probably include some road based mass transit to urban centers. Basically a high density planned community, complete with a mini shopping mall with shit for kids to do like a cinema and LAN cafe(so they don't get too bored and form a gang), and a pre-made means for getting the fuck out of there without a car when you need to. Hell, make it an arcology if it's in the city areas and get rid of the bus.
Now how does this get paid for? Well, private investors could build these, and then swap McMansions for them. They basically end up getting more land and pre-built houses in other desirable areas in exchange. The government could do likewise, but a lot of people here seem to be against that.
So in effect, you've got a few land developers making much more affordable, sustainable housing that already has shops and activities, and you trade your mortgaged house & land that's worth a fair bit more for something that's worth probably a bit less than what you could have reasonably afforded in the first place, and the investors get a shit load more land that they can resell or redevelop at a later date.

Like I said, a bit out there, but a good way of making sure people don't end up entirely homeless, and potentially a great investment opportunity in a time when few are presenting themselves.
The key, of course, is being able to price it right so that the costs can be recouped by taking the land that people used to own.
 
Trying to think outside the box here, but perhaps utilizing the idea of shelters would do some good.

Follow me here because I'm going to use stuff from the common experience, but try to build on it where it failed.

The Projects.
Here you've got high density tenement housing that was designed to alleviate the problem of poor people not being able to afford housing. Now, these failed for a few reasons.
A complete lack of amenities and services being the primary, but also things like thin walls (cheap construction) in such high density housing leading to living there basically being psychological torture... etc.
The reason why public housing fails is that the tenants don't own the property, and have no incentive to maintain it. The builders don't have to live in it, or answer to the people who do, so it is poorly constructed.

Rent Control

This video covers a lot of the problems with public housing.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p584-aYnEOs&fmt=18]YouTube - John Stossel Goes to Washington (3/6)[/ame]

If you don't have a proper diagnosis of the problems, you can't come up with effective solutions. The issue here is not putting people in cheap housing they don't own. It is finding ways to make home ownership cheaper so more people can afford it.

As an aside, everyone should watch these two sets of videos.

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

---

h00p://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Phs6CwnutoY&fmt=18
h00p://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e11-_cE63Us&fmt=18
h00p://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuL8teeuJD8&fmt=18
h00p://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Pu6cT6ICQQ&fmt=18
h00p://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTI9r4pUYh4&fmt=18
h00p://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWVLr8Y18e0&fmt=18
 
Just because they are current on a low intro rate mortgage, doesn't mean they are ready to accept responsibility for a mortgage that people have known for years would reset higher.

A lot of those people with a balloon have already been washed out by now. From the little details the gov have released (we won't know everything until March 4th) this plan is more geared towards those that were locked in at high rates when they purchased a few years ago (7%+) and their home values are now worth less than their loan. They won't be able to refi for likely 10+ years because of the negative equity. This gives them a chance to refi to a much lower rate and gives them incentive to stay in their house instead of just walking away from it.


Consider, that if you have paid less than 50% of your mortgage, then I would argue that the person holding the mortgage owns the house more than you do. Shouldn't they be the ones getting the bailout? Sound reasonable?

Until the mortgage is completely paid off, of course the bank owns the house... and most of the banks got a massive bailout and they are the main reason we are in this mess.
 
A lot of those people with a balloon have already been washed out by now. From the little details the gov have released (we won't know everything until March 4th) this plan is more geared towards those that were locked in at high rates when they purchased a few years ago (7%+) and their home values are now worth less than their loan. They won't be able to refi for likely 10+ years because of the negative equity. This gives them a chance to refi to a much lower rate and gives them incentive to stay in their house instead of just walking away from it.
Don't take this personal, but this ^^^ is bullshit, just like Obama promising not to hire lobbyists, or posting every bill online for 5 days before it is signed. or Bush claiming to want a humble foreign policy with no nation building.

The government's intentions are irrelevant. The details of the bill do matter.

As far as declining home values, that is irrelevant to what you paid when you signed the mortgage unless you planned to (1) flip it, or (2) do a heloc. If you keep paying the mortgage you signed, you will still get the same house you bought, at the same price you agreed to, under the same contract terms you agreed to.

Until the mortgage is completely paid off, of course the bank owns the house... and most of the banks got a massive bailout and they are the main reason we are in this mess.
Uhm, not. The reason why there is this mess, is that the government pumped trillions into the system when the FED lowered the overnight interest rate to 1% for a year, in order to mitigate the .com recession.

Then they forced banks to give cheap mortgages to people who normally would not qualify under the CRA. Then they refused to regulate the industry, the banking chairs who are both Dems were complicit in this along with the Republicans.

Lastly, you have a lot of dumb as shit consumers who think that if you buy a house, you can turn it into an ATM, and don't read contracts for hundreds of thousands of dollars. You can't do anything about people taking on stupid mortgages. No one put a gun to their head.

The banks are totally fucked up, but they didn't cause this problem. Houses were crazy over valued. If you index for inflation, home prices have barely risen in the last 100 years. The myth of perpetual bull markets in stocks and housing are just that. Myths. The inflation adjusted #s do not bear any of it out.
 
The government did loosen the lending laws but did not force banks to give home loans to people with bad credit. The majority of the loans given out over the last few years were by greedy banks and mortgage companies who could care less if the borrower could repay it back. The gov certainly did not put a gun to their head to keep pumping out these subprime loans.

There were definitely a lot of people who were financially stupid who applied for home loans they couldn't afford but the banks are the root of a lot of the current problems... the irresponsible home owners who couldn't afford the place to begin with should have never even been given the opportunity to receive the loan.

I certainly don't think this plan is perfect (far from it) but it will help out millions of responsible home owners who are stuck with a higher rate and enable them to knock off a few percentage points and lower their monthly payment.

Time Magazine has an interesting poll on the "25 People to Blame for the Financial Crisis"

Blameworthy - 25 People to Blame for the Financial Crisis - TIME

So far, Phil Gramm has the lead, lol
 
Status
Not open for further replies.