Russian Army Invades Ukraine And Seizes Crimea

[Kiopa_Matt]

This whole thing was triggered by the EU offering Ukraine a trade deal and it was offered for positive reasons - we don't like poor countries on the borders because they cause illegal migration problems (desperate people migrate), so the idea was that the Ukraine could trade itself out of it's poverty.

Right. This entire incident was instigated by the West by trying to bring Ukraine into the EU. It was decided decades ago that Ukraine would act as a buffer between NATO and WARSAW forces (before USSR split up).

The West decided to go against that agreement though, and tried to bring Ukraine into the EU, which would have basically put NATO right on Russia's border. When that failed, the West supported and fueled anti-government protests within Ukraine. Russia rightfully viewed this as a threat, and coupled with the civil unrest throughout Ukraine, and their mass interests in Crimea, decided to secure their interests and annex the region. What do you expect them to do?

Again, if this referendum was held 5 years ago, more than likely the residents of Crimea would have voted to be annexed by Russia anyway, so I don't see the huge issue here. So you can bitch about Russia breaking the treaty signed in Budapest back in 1994, but at the same time, the West broke the agreement of leaving Ukraine as a buffer zone.

All this debate is doing is teaching me is how powerful the media really is.

 

[teatree]

^^^ The West wasn't trying to "bring Ukraine into the EU". It offered them a TRADE DEAL. Just like the trade deals we have with Turkey, Mercosur, India and other places.

Since when is trade a crime? Offering a trade deal is not a breach of the 1994 treaty - that treaty simply said that we'd respect their sovereignty. Not sure you realize this, but you can trade with another country while still respecting their sovereignty. How is lowering import tariffs a breach of sovereignty for goodness sakes?

And Ukraine wanted the deal because they are poor, they badly need to earn money. How else can you do this without trade, pray? Their president spent months negotiating the trade deal with the EU before Russia put the screws on him to reject it.

Maybe Russia felt threatened by the potential that Ukraine would not be poor in 10 years time and people would compare Russia to them and start asking questions about how Putin is mismanaging their economy. I'm puzzled that you think that pathetic reason is justification for their invasion of Ukraine.

 

[jhoffy22]

Huh?



Yep, exactly. Every region of the world is more than welcome to secede from its country if they so desire, assuming they have the military strength to back it up, which Crimea does have in this case.




Well, it just happened. If the Ukraine wants Crimea back, they can fight Russia for it. Same as if Mexico wants Texas back, they can fight the US for it.

Besides, Crimea was basically already Russian anyway, so it's not like there's some massive change happening here. Instead of Crimea being ruled by Russia via proxy, they're now a part of Russia.

I'm out of here.

 

[rusvik]

I have to wonder how this entire situation would play out if we had a president with a strict foreign policy.

You'd sit in your underwear and neckbeard going 'USA! USA! US..." and then a nuke would hit you in your head.

 

[rusvik]

If Ukraine wanted to do something for themselves, perhaps being by confiscating the loot stolen by the oligarchs. You know, just like Putin did and then pay off the foreign debt, just like Putin did.

 

[jorarulit]

If Ukraine wanted to do something for themselves, perhaps being by confiscating the loot stolen by the oligarchs. You know, just like Putin did and then pay off the foreign debt, just like Putin did.

Yeah, putin is a great guy, russia is one of the world's richest countries, resource-wise and regular people over there live like it's 19th century

 

[GoldMarketing]

Yep, exactly. Every region of the world is more than welcome to secede from its country if they so desire, assuming they have the military strength to back it up, which Crimea does have in this case.

Autism/propaganda at its finest. So, if you basically concentrate one ethnic group into an area and thus forming 51%, it becomes legitimate to occupy it by "protecting ethnic people"?

 

[vaizbunas]

^ you have NO fucking idea what you are talking about. It's not about the west or east or any other abstract mumbo jumbo that you read in First World Sceptic Daily.

It's about a shithole size of a continent with bad roads, awful life quality, extreme corruption, censorship, no working mail service, full of bureaucrats and thieves. A shithole where the majority of population is at the same time absolutely sure of the nation's "divine mission" and superiority, extremely aggressive and chauvinistic towards practically EACH neighboring country. The people are so brainwashed in fact, that even after they FLEE the shithole and emigrate to a country with working laws and opportunities, they proudly post absurd shit like backflip knife-throwing soldiers or military choirs covering western pop songs, probably implying that Russia is great because of that.

It's about all that shit exploding into a lot of blood one day, sooner or later, and recent events hint that it will really be sooner. The Western powers would much rather have a quiet buffer zone in the Ukraine, well bummer, Ukrainians are a nation with balls.

Look at the Russian news broadcast from today saying they will turn the USA into radioactive dust

ÐGAYоÑ�Ñ�иÑ� может превратить СШÐ� в пепел, ВеÑ�ти недели, Дмитрий КиÑ�елев, 16 марта 2014 - YouTube

look at the putin supporters marching yesterday in moscow

По�троение активи�тов Сути Времени - YouTube

finally, look at imbecile putin admirers on this forum that respect him because he cheated on his wife or flew in a fighter jet. What a great way to analyze politics.

yes Iamabitmad.jpg and I am out of this gay thread, a world war is about to start in my region, excuse me.

Since you posting youtube in russian I think you do understand what he talks about or someone translated some none sense. Russians talks bunch of shit making it look like they are hurt in Crimea. I live in Europe, had fellow Russian-Ukrainian went to Kiev few days back. Nothing is close to what 1 russian channel claims to be. No Russians are hurt or beaten is all fuzz. That fucking channel made a video about how the country I live in, was preparing people for "revolution" in 2012 ? WTF ? Next day Putin declares this statement as truth. If this shit wont chill out, we might have w3chool started again

 

[microphone head]

Out of interest: for those of you Americans here I have a question (rather three). What source of news do you use for European / Asian affairs and do you believe it is USA's place to intervene in any way? If so - how?

 

[taraz15]

looool Kiopa_Matt stop posting you're embarrassing yourself. At least do a little research before you jump head first into a discussion like this.

Start here: Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

.... and there's a lot more to in than the ^^, but it's a start.

Otherwise shut the fuck up and go finish your CMS instead.

Seems like Matt completely ignored this post. How the hell can you support what Russia does after reading that treaty. No Russians were hurt in Crimea and Putin invaded to "protect" the Russians(who were safe).

When that treaty happened and Russia traded Crimea, Ukraine also gave its borderline cities and territory to Russia. So if Russia is trying to claim its old land, Ukraine deserves its old territory back too.

The vote was anything but fair, Ukrainian citizens had their passports TAKEN away so they could not vote.

Another big topic what everyone seems to ignore is that the people who were born in Crimea and are approaching the age to be drafted, instead of being able to serve in the army somewhere in Ukraine and close to home, they could be sent off to the completely opposite side of Russia to serve for their "country" who freed them from the dangerous Ukrainian regime.

 

[jorarulit]

Seems like Matt completely ignored this post. How the hell can you support what Russia does after reading that treaty. No Russians were hurt in Crimea and Putin invaded to "protect" the Russians(who were safe).

When that treaty happened and Russia traded Crimea, Ukraine also gave its borderline cities and territory to Russia. So if Russia is trying to claim its old land, Ukraine deserves its old territory back too.

The vote was anything but fair, Ukrainian citizens had their passports TAKEN away so they could not vote.

Another big topic what everyone seems to ignore is that the people who were born in Crimea and are approaching the age to be drafted, instead of being able to serve in the army somewhere in Ukraine and close to home, they could be sent off to the completely opposite side of Russia to serve for their "country" who freed them from the dangerous Ukrainian regime.

There is no more army draft in Ukraine. Young people in Crimea will be drafted to the Russian army though.

Also young mothers in Crimea (if they get accepted into RF) will not be getting their 60,000 hryvnia first-child compensation (that's $6,000-$7,000 for just having a child) according to Russian law.

Shit is bad in russia.

Etc., etc., etc.,

 

[taraz15]

There is no more army draft in Ukraine. Young people in Crimea will be drafted to the Russian army though.

Also young mothers in Crimea (if they get accepted into RF) will not be getting their 60,000 hryvnia first-child compensation (that's $6,000-$7,000 for just having a child) according to Russian law.

Shit is bad in russia.

Etc., etc., etc.,

Draft ended a year or two ago I believe and they were going towards a setup like in America where you get paid if you decide to serve.

 

[Kiopa_Matt]

Seems like Matt completely ignored this post. How the hell can you support what Russia does after reading that treaty. No Russians were hurt in Crimea and Putin invaded to "protect" the Russians(who were safe).

I don't really support what Russia did, because it's a bad situation all around.

However, like it or not, the West are the instigators and aggressors in this situation, and Russia is actually on the defensive. If the EU would have just left Ukraine the fuck alone, none of this would have happened.

But no, the West tried pushing themselves into the Ukraine via trade deals, and tried getting Ukraine on a pathway to EU membership. Russia said "fuck that idea", and offered Ukraine a better deal, which they went with. That pissed the West off, so they supported / fueled anti-government protests, with hopes of getting a new government installed in Ukraine that would be more favorable to the West.

Then Russia got scared, went on the defensive, and annexed Crimea, Russia has a hell of a lot more to lose in this fight than a simple trade deal gone bad, so they did what they had to. Again, Russia is on the defensive right now. It's not like they're running around and committing genocide against the Tartars, or anything. They're simply securing their national interests, and ensuring the West doesn't continue to encroach.

It's a shitty situation all around, but if you want to get angry at someone, get angry at the EU / West, not Russia.

 

[jorarulit]

I don't really support what Russia did, because it's a bad situation all around.

However, like it or not, the West are the instigators and aggressors in this situation, and Russia is actually on the defensive. If the EU would have just left Ukraine the fuck alone, none of this would have happened.

But no, the West tried pushing themselves into the Ukraine via trade deals, and tried getting Ukraine on a pathway to EU membership. Russia said "fuck that idea", and offered Ukraine a better deal, which they went with. That pissed the West off, so they supported / fueled anti-government protests, with hopes of getting a new government installed in Ukraine that would be more favorable to the West.

Then Russia got scared, went on the defensive, and annexed Crimea, Russia has a hell of a lot more to lose in this fight than a simple trade deal gone bad, so they did what they had to. Again, Russia is on the defensive right now. It's not like they're running around and committing genocide against the Tartars, or anything. They're simply securing their national interests, and ensuring the West doesn't continue to encroach.

It's a shitty situation all around, but if you want to get angry at someone, get angry at the EU / West, not Russia.

 

[jriddick]

I don't really support what Russia did, because it's a bad situation all around.

However, like it or not, the West are the instigators and aggressors in this situation, and Russia is actually on the defensive. If the EU would have just left Ukraine the fuck alone, none of this would have happened.

But no, the West tried pushing themselves into the Ukraine via trade deals, and tried getting Ukraine on a pathway to EU membership. Russia said "fuck that idea", and offered Ukraine a better deal, which they went with. That pissed the West off, so they supported / fueled anti-government protests, with hopes of getting a new government installed in Ukraine that would be more favorable to the West.

Then Russia got scared, went on the defensive, and annexed Crimea, Russia has a hell of a lot more to lose in this fight than a simple trade deal gone bad, so they did what they had to. Again, Russia is on the defensive right now. It's not like they're running around and committing genocide against the Tartars, or anything. They're simply securing their national interests, and ensuring the West doesn't continue to encroach.

It's a shitty situation all around, but if you want to get angry at someone, get angry at the EU / West, not Russia.

Did someone turn on Russia Today? Because all I hear is a brainwashed idiot repeating their propaganda as if he just thought of it.

 

[microphone head]

Russian army invades Ukraine? I found out why. tnk.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9FS1bxaGTg]Ukraine Got Talent - The world's best pole dancer - Anastasia Sokolova - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Cshark]

I wonder where is this headed. Any clue, fellas?

Obama Warns Europe About Russian Aggression - ABC News

[ QUOTE ]Describing this as a “moment of testing,” President Obama today rallied European support to stand up to Russia — portraying the Ukraine crisis as a threat to the order that has kept the peace in Europe for 70 years. “Now is not the time for bluster,” the president said. “This moment, we must meet the challenge to our ideals, to our very international order, with strength and conviction.”
Suggesting Russian President Vladimir Putin’s intervention in Ukraine is reminiscent of “darker forces of the past,” Obama warned “once again, we are confronted with the belief among some that bigger nations can bully smaller ones to get their way — that recycled maxim that might somehow makes right.” [ /QUOTE ]

 

[_poto_]

Out of interest: for those of you Americans here I have a question (rather three). What source of news do you use for European / Asian affairs and do you believe it is USA's place to intervene in any way? If so - how?

I used to watch Al Jazeera daily, but stopped when they started blocking their youtube stream for US viewers... eh, fuck them. They did have decent coverage on anything that didn't involve Muslims.

I pop on RT sometimes when I'm eating to see what the latest Russian propaganda is. Generally if you listen to the propaganda on both sides you can usually tell the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Other than that I pick up bits of news here and there from various forums and talking to friends.

As far as intervening. Last superpower standing means we're going to intervene in stuff, doesn't really matter what anyone thinks about it.

 

[oknetwork]

ok, I was born in Russia and grew up in Belarus, at the age of 20 moved to SoCal and enjoyed sun for 13 years, met my wife there and moved to Munich with her 3 years ago. Now, why am I saying all that.

I'm neutral.

And read/watch us, german and russian news. You should understand that %99 of what the mass media feeds you is propaganda.

For a change here is speach of Gregor Gysi of the german Party "Die Linke" about the situation in Ukraine (here is a link with english translation http://pastebin.com/0h2ybPvN)


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXLy0NGW9sM]Bundestag: Gysi redet Klartext über die Ukraine & Swoboda & Putin (deutsch / english) - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Rusky]

The muscle behind the coup is no longer needed.

Get the popcorn out.
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/neo-fascis...ise-ukraine-warns-president-turchynov-1442280