Shit Gets Real in Kyrgyzstan

kingofsp said:
Nothing says, "I'm a fucking badass" like a riot shield and a fanny pack.
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Now this dude is badass:

badass.jpg
 


Drake said:
These riots started after 2 utilities were raised 200%. Electricity and something else. Nothing earth shattering.

It doesnt take all that much to piss people off.

I think one could argue with huge deficits, an incredibly unpopular Congress, Endless Wars and Propaganda that Americans are "Taking it" for now but wont forever.

Unemployment is over 10% and people are SO MUCH less civilized and rational than during the Depression.

It doesnt take everyone to get fighting going.

If 10% think there is no point in being civil and dont really give a shit what happens, watch the fuck out.
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2008 Estimated GDP per capita:

$2,184

$47,440 (USA)

Yeah, very comparable climates given we're a bunch of semi-nomadic herders too.
 
m0rtal said:
lulz?

YouTube - IS THIS WHAT DEMOCRACY LOOKS LIKE? WTO
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I'm quite liberal, and yes the gas specifically I have real problems with.

HOWEVER- let me present this counter point to that ultra 'scary' video. I was once caught in a Critical Mass ride in San Francisco.

I was in a car.

I worked for years in the bike industry. I ride bikes. Probably better than 99% of members of critical mass, whom many of the more vocal outspoken members are stupid hipsters whose ultimate hypocrisy calls for
peace love and all sorts of bullshit but meanwhile there is no problem with littering pabst cans all over the street and riding absolutely wrecklessly.


These fucking society draining idiots decided that it would be a good idea to shut down Market during rush hour. It was no problem to slap cars hoods, kick them and shout obscenities. For what? Me just driving? What if my pregnant wife was in the car, worse yet what if we were on the way to the hospital as she was in labor? What if my kids were in the car being traumatized?

Now again, as a cyclist I have real problems with idiots on phones killing members of my community in cars. However I also drive a car, live a pretty normal life, and sure as hell shouldn't endangered by protestors, whether you want to label it 'peaceful' or not (and let's cut the bullshit, critical mass is much more of a 'let's go fuck shit up in the name of civil rights and liberty than any protest that actually takes balls and intelligence).

You want to protest sitting in a street blocking off traffic and causing all kinds of delays/dangers/etc for the rest of the citizens in the society? Fuck you, you're risking getting gassed.

NOW- You're simply standing on the sidewalk or sitting in the courtyard/park/etc outside some private company you're protesting or some public building? Yeah, I'm real in favor of this being allowed and not using excessive force to disperse this just because it's calling attention to a negative issue.

Another run-in with Critical Mass / Shattered window of family car wasn't only encounter -- limo had harrowing clash, too


That's my view.
 
Background on Kyrgyszan from my homies at Stratfor Intelligence:

Firstly, a timeline of how this happened (reference to Manas is not inferring cause at this stage, but significance will become clearer in the next post):

March 10: The Council of Kyrgyz Elders demanded the closure of the U.S. air base at Manas and called for an immediate withdrawal of U.S. forces from their country, the Voice of Russia Web site reported.
March 10: Kyrgyz President Kurmanbek Bakiyev met with U.S. Central Command chief Gen. David Petraeus in Bishkek and said that Kyrgyzstan will seek to assist in the rehabilitation of Afghanistan, the Trend news agency reported.
March 11: Some parliamentarians expressed discontent over the news that Italian authorities issued a warrant for the arrest of Yevgeny Gurevich, a business associate of President Kurmanbek Bakiyev’s son, Maksim, Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty reported.
March 12: The Kyrgyz opposition group Ata-Meken (Fatherland) demanded that President Kurmanbek Bakiyev and his son resign, Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty reported.
March 17: About 3,000 demonstrators gathered in Kyrgyzstan’s capital, Bishkek, protesting an increase in heating and electricity tariffs and the reported oppression of political opposition, The Washington Post reported. Ata-Meken party leader Omurbek Tekebayev told the protesters to take control if the government does not listen, the Trend news agency reported.
March 18: The Kyrgyz Defense Ministry released plans for the joint construction of an anti-terrorism training center with the United States, Xinhua reported. Sources said construction would begin a short time after the establishment of a joint military office. The center is backed with a start-up fund of $5 million from the United States.
March 20: Kyrgyz President Kurmanbek Bakiyev announced that several ministries and agencies will be relocated to Osh over the next few years, with the Defense Ministry being the first, according to a AKIpress news agency report.
March 23: About 30 people, including Temir Sariev, the leader of the opposition party Ak-Shumkar, were detained in Bishkek while protesting, Interfax reported.
March 23: Kyrgyz President Kurmanbek Bakiyev said the only two paths for his country’s foreign policy are becoming a “satellite” to a larger power or being independent in world politics, Interfax-AVN reported. Bakiyev said other countries have met Kyrgyzstan’s efforts to establish its international independence over the last year with a “respectful attitude.”
March 26: Kyrgyz Defense Minister Baktybek Kalyyev said that a U.S.-funded new military training center in Batken will strengthen security in Kyrgyzstan and will not complicate their relations with Russia or Uzbekistan, Interfax reported.
March 29: Russian and Kyrgyz leaders firmly intend to complete a draft agreement on setting up Russia’s unified military base on Kyrgyz territory, Collective Security Treaty Organization Secretary-General Nikolai Bordyuzha said, the AKIpress news agency reported.
March 31: Members of the religious extremist organization Hezb-e Tahrir were detained in Kyrgyzstan’s Dzhalal-Abad region, the Web site 24.kg reported.
April 1: A media rights advocate said that a Kyrgyz court had shut down Forum, which was an opposition newspaper, the Trend news agency reported.
April 5: Authorities in Kyrgyzstan have offered discounts to those people deemed most affected by a recent hike in electricity and heating bills in an apparent bid to calm tensions, AP reported. Kyrgyz Prime Minister Daniyar Usenov ordered the government to pay half the power bills of households in remote and mountainous regions.
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April 6th is when the protests started:
Timeline of Protests:
April 6 (3:21 p.m. - all times are local): Protesters in Talas took over a regional government office during a rally, Reuters reported.
April 6 (3:29 p.m.): Representatives of the Talas regional state administrator said they are holding talks with the “opposition,” according to reports from the Kyrgyz news agency 24.kg Web site.
April 6 (5:02 p.m.): Kyrgyz Prime Minister Daniyar Usenov vowed to restore order in Talas and says the 100 police officers that he sent to the city should be sufficient to restore order, reported the AKIpress news agency.
April 6 (5:10 p.m.): Kyrgyz Prime Minister Daniyar Usenov said he is ready to talk with the opposition, reported the AKIpress news agency.
April 6 (5:41 p.m.): Law-enforcement agencies arrested participants and organizers of a protest in Talas, reported the AKIpress news agency.
April 6 (6:26 p.m.): Kyrgyz Prime Minister Daniyar Usenov denied that a regional governor had been taken hostage in the town of Talas but confirmed that a group of opposition protesters was inside a local government office, Reuters reported.
April 6 (6:42 p.m.): Reports come in that police in the country’s northwest have used rubber bullets and tear gas to disperse protesters, BBC reported.
April 6 (8:06 p.m.): A rally resumed at the square in front of Talas’ regional administration building. Opposition leaders and activists made speeches, and Ferghana.ru claimed that special forces entered the city and young people prepared Molotov cocktails, the Kyrgyz news agency 24.kg Web site reported.
April 6 (10:14 p.m.): The governor of the Talas region, who had been held by opposition protesters, was freed in a police operation, Reuters reported.
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there's more for the following days, which I doubt any wants to read
 
Kyrgyzstan: The Causes Behind the Crisis

Causes or "Economy? We haz none!"

Kyrgyzstan: The Causes Behind the Crisis
STRATFOR TODAY » April 7, 2010 | 1542 GMT


Summary
Protests continue throughout Kyrgyzstan on April 7. The current unrest has been brewing for months, fueled by an energy crisis and government crackdowns on the opposition. However, no one force is driving the protests. Several entities, including Russia, stand to benefit from instability in the small Central Asian country.

Analysis
As protests continue to escalate across Kyrgyzstan — especially in the capital of Bishkek — the Kyrgyz government has said that the opposition has agreed to negotiate (although the opposition has said it is still considering sitting down for talks). Protesters have seized government buildings across the country, and many government buildings in Bishkek are burning.


The two main issues to examine in the Kyrgyz unrest are why the protests began and who is really behind it.

Protests are incredibly common in Kyrgyzstan, especially in spring. The current protests have had months to simmer as the country has faced an escalating electricity crisis, with rolling blackouts and cutoffs occurring regularly while energy prices rose.

The root cause of the electricity crisis is the imbalanced natural resource allocation in Central Asia. Surrounding countries like Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan and Kazakhstan are rich in energy resources like natural gas and oil, but Kyrgyzstan must import these resources from its neighbors. This situation has led to many disputes between Kyrgyzstan and its neighbors with cutoffs repeatedly occurring during winter. The energy shortage has also led to higher electricity prices, which the Kyrgyz government has passed on to its citizens, putting further strain on the already impoverished population.

This has led to increased instability and protests over the past few months, and the government has responded by clamping down on the protesters, the opposition and the media covering the protests. This reaction has just given protests more fuel and led to an escalation in unrest.

The protests over the past few months have not been driven by one main force; there are several entities — including Russia — that stand to benefit from unrest in the Central Asian country, whose political environment is already chaotic and unstable.

Current Kyrgyz President Kurmanbek Bakiyev came to power in the 2005 Tulip Revolution. At the time, Bakiyev’s rise was seen as part of the series of color revolutions sweeping across the former Soviet states and bringing pro-Western regimes to power. However, Bakiyev did not lead his country down the pro-Western path Georgia and Ukraine followed at the time. Instead, he continually has dealt with both Russia and the West, offering deals to the highest bidder instead of depending on ideology to guide his policies.


Although the United States has a military base in Kyrgyzstan to support the war in Afghanistan, with plans to build a military training center in southern Kyrgyzstan, Russia holds the upper hand in the country. Moscow has three military bases in Kyrgyzstan (a fourth is under way), control of the country’s drug flow and a hold on most of the scant Kyrgyz economy, and 9 percent of the Kyrgyz population is Russian.

Despite Russia’s leverage in Kyrgyzstan, Bakiyev’s propensity to deal with the West has been a constant irritation to Moscow at a time when Russia is expanding its influence across its former Soviet territory. Kyrgyzstan has not been at the top of Russia’s priority list, but it is one of the easier countries to interfere in and control.

There are reports that Temir Sariev, head of opposition party Ak Shumkar, recently met with Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin in Moscow. Sariev’s party reportedly is one of the forces behind the protests. However, the other two political parties behind the demonstrations — the United People’s Movement and Social Democratic Party of Kyrgyzstan — have a very public battle with Sariev, who used to belong to the Social Democrats. It is currently unclear if Russia has been able to resolve the bitter rift among the opposition groups to create a united force in order to topple Bakiyev. It seems Russia is only backing Sariev and Ak Shumkar, which is a relatively small political group.

But Ak Shumkar could benefit from the protests under way in Kyrgyzstan; though the protests are backed by other opposition forces, Ak Shumkar could use the instability to push a possible pro-Russian revolution in Kyrgyzstan.

It could be that timing is everything.
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Privet, comrades!

Context - a second color revolution in 3 months is reversed.. while Obama dines with 11 nervous Eastern European leaders in Prague. Gotta love a .. coincidence.

Kyrgyzstan: A Victory for Moscow in the Uprising
STRATFOR TODAY » April 8, 2010 | 1721 GMT

Summary
As protests continue in Kyrgyzstan, wider geopolitical implications have begun to emerge. Russia’s offer of assistance appears to have been warmly received, while the United States and China, both rivals to Moscow for influence in Central Asia, struggle to craft a diplomatic response to events. Though there is no concrete evidence of a Russian hand in the removal of President Kurmanbek Bakiyev’s government, it marks another step in the rollback of Western influence in the former Soviet sphere.

Analysis

As the situation in Kyrgyzstan continues to play out following the April 7 ouster of President Kurmanbek Bakiyev and the rise of the opposition government, some geopolitical ripple effects have begun to emerge.

The Kyrgyz uprising has come to be regarded, whether true or not, as a pro-Russian action on the part of the protesters. And only months after the reversal of the 2005 Orange Revolution in Ukraine and Russia’s resurgence in the former Soviet country, the dethroning of the Tulip Revolution of Kyrgyzstan that brought Bakiyev into power (ironically also in 2005) is seen as another symbol of the reconstruction of Russian power in its near abroad.

Though the chaos in the streets continues, the transition of power (while not yet official) went smoothly, with an organized opposition government created quickly and standing ready to take the former government’s place. Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin was quick to endorse the new government and condemned Bakiyev for the nepotistic policies that contributed to his unpopularity.

Meanwhile, it is clear from reports on the ground that public opinion of the United States in Kyrgyzstan has not been favorable. As the protests escalated, U.S. State Department spokesman Philip Crowley said, “We work with that sitting government. We have — as we’ve outlined in various reports, including the Human Rights Report — we have concerns about issues, intimidation by the government, corruption within the government…but that said, there is a sitting government. We work closely with that government. We are allied with that government in terms of its support for international operations in Afghanistan.”

This contrasts sharply from the open offer of assistance from Putin to the new government. Other reports circulating in the Kyrgyz press appear to have taken Crowley’s words out of context to imply the United States was opposed to any attempted removal of Bakiyev. While no such comments were made, they have been widely disseminated in the Kyrgyz media.

There are also reports that Bakiyev’s son — who was appointed to a key economic post and is regarded by many as the epitome of Bakiyev’s nepotism — has fled to the United States after the collapse of his father’s government. There are far fewer people in the country who are criticizing the comments made by Putin, who urged both the opposition and government to show restraint, but particularly called out the latter.

STRATFOR sources in Kyrgyzstan in contact with foreign embassies report that the presence of Russian Federal Security Service (FSB) agents has been conspicuous in Kyrgyzstan over the last 24 hours. These reports cannot be confirmed, and if true, may not mean Moscow had any direct role in the April 7 coup — but they underscore the feeling among Kyrgyz citizens that Russia’s influence in the country is pervasive. The protests and riots led to looting and destruction of several government buildings and businesses; STRATFOR sources report that it appears that no U.S. or Russian infrastructure was directly targeted, although several Chinese markets were burned. These attacks are unverified, but they do track with a rising anger among the public in Kyrgyzstan and the wider Central Asia region over China. China has been quick to condemn the events in Kyrgyzstan, fearing that a government crumbling in a neighboring country threatens its own security situation, particularly one that borders the autonomy-minded Xinjiang province. If these rumors prove true, they will leave Beijing nervous about its Central Asia policy.

The Russians have been careful not to exploit the situation in Kyrgyzstan and have been measured in their response. Russia already has widespread influence and levers there, so there is no need for the Kremlin to overplay its hand. But as the United States and China struggle to craft their diplomatic response and cope with their interests in the country, the people in Kyrgyzstan seem to perceive their current stance unfavorably. And as the saying goes, perception is reality, and Moscow is the clear victor in this regard.
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there's plenty more if anyone gives a shit. Specifically, the significance of Kyrgyszan in the Afghan campaign, the importance of Manas airbase and what its future may be.
 
Sonny Forelli said:
I'm quite liberal, and yes the gas specifically I have real problems with.

HOWEVER- let me present this counter point to that ultra 'scary' video. I was once caught in a Critical Mass ride in San Francisco.

I was in a car.

I worked for years in the bike industry. I ride bikes. Probably better than 99% of members of critical mass, whom many of the more vocal outspoken members are stupid hipsters whose ultimate hypocrisy calls for
peace love and all sorts of bullshit but meanwhile there is no problem with littering pabst cans all over the street and riding absolutely wrecklessly.


These fucking society draining idiots decided that it would be a good idea to shut down Market during rush hour. It was no problem to slap cars hoods, kick them and shout obscenities. For what? Me just driving? What if my pregnant wife was in the car, worse yet what if we were on the way to the hospital as she was in labor? What if my kids were in the car being traumatized?

Now again, as a cyclist I have real problems with idiots on phones killing members of my community in cars. However I also drive a car, live a pretty normal life, and sure as hell shouldn't endangered by protestors, whether you want to label it 'peaceful' or not (and let's cut the bullshit, critical mass is much more of a 'let's go fuck shit up in the name of civil rights and liberty than any protest that actually takes balls and intelligence).

You want to protest sitting in a street blocking off traffic and causing all kinds of delays/dangers/etc for the rest of the citizens in the society? Fuck you, you're risking getting gassed.

NOW- You're simply standing on the sidewalk or sitting in the courtyard/park/etc outside some private company you're protesting or some public building? Yeah, I'm real in favor of this being allowed and not using excessive force to disperse this just because it's calling attention to a negative issue.

Another run-in with Critical Mass / Shattered window of family car wasn't only encounter -- limo had harrowing clash, too


That's my view.
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Look, I try to stay away from these arguments to begin with so I don't even want to get into too much discussion on this but...

I posted that vid in response to you 2 guy's "lols" at the dude saying that this could be coming to America (the video of the undercovers beating the shit out of people).

And I think I made my point quite clear. Hippies or not hippes these people got GASSED while they were having a peaceful protest and sitting in the street.

You're also kind of comparing apples and oranges. Those people aren't doing shit before they get gassed. They're SITTING DOWN, come on man. If they were throwing stones and shit like the other people in Krzysgastadan whatever how you spell it then I could maybe understand.

Personally I think the only stupid thing about these "hipsters" is that they actually don't fight back. I would have unloaded a couple molotovs on these mofos, but that's just me.

Also, if you didn't know where this is from it's from the '99 protests in Seattle, go read up on that some more if you like and see how nicely your fellow citizens were treated.
 
m0rtal said:
Look, I try to stay away from these arguments to begin with so I don't even want to get into too much discussion on this but...

I posted that vid in response to you 2 guy's "lols" at the dude saying that this could be coming to America (the video of the undercovers beating the shit out of people).

And I think I made my point quite clear. Hippies or not hippes these people got GASSED while they were having a peaceful protest and sitting in the street.

You're also kind of comparing apples and oranges. Those people aren't doing shit before they get gassed. They're SITTING DOWN, come on man. If they were throwing stones and shit like the other people in Krzysgastadan whatever how you spell it then I could maybe understand.

Personally I think the only stupid thing about these "hipsters" is that they actually don't fight back. I would have unloaded a couple molotovs on these mofos, but that's just me.
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They were told to move. They chose not to.
It's not like they were told to go home and not peacefully protest. The idiots intentionally created a blockade. They were warned of the pain if they didn't move.

They could have protested from the sidewalk but they chose to be a public nuisance. Screw them and their fresh air.
 
Not sure if true, etc... but a comment on that page merits some thought:

We are watching a new cold war between Russia and USA!
USA wants the military logistic base of Kyrgyzstan for the war in Afghanistan. Those two contries are neighbours. To reach the aim, USA supported a street riot in 2005 against the Kyrgyzsta govenment which was supported by Russia. And the USA won, and the current government is actually the winner of that street riot.
Now, Russia is fighting back and this is what we are looking at!

I'd really prefer no more cold wars :) - I remember in elementary school practicing for air raids. Sit in hallway with head between your legs for 15 minutes while a real loud alarm goes off. What fun :)
 
When I said watch for when 10% are desperate and dont give a shit I meant it. I meant nothing with averages.

I can go out on a limb and say if chaos comes to America it will not be done by people making $48k a year. It will be people who were promised jobs and happiness their whole lives by TV and radio and have been unemployed for a year or two.

$2000 a year in Eastern Europe is livable, $2000 (or less) in the United States is not.

The American Revolution, or French, or any of them are not done by the wealthy typically.

Sonny Forelli said:
2008 Estimated GDP per capita:

$2,184

$47,440 (USA)

Yeah, very comparable climates given we're a bunch of semi-nomadic herders too.
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