not sayings I am .. but I hate that logic.
Would you like a rock that keeps tigers away? .. How do I know it's working? .. See any tigers? .. ooOoo Lemme buy one.
So I crashed a church bbq yesterday...
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not sayings I am .. but I hate that logic.
Would you like a rock that keeps tigers away? .. How do I know it's working? .. See any tigers? .. ooOoo Lemme buy one.
So far, I don't think I've managed to get sucked into any religious debates here. And I don't plan to now. It's always been my opinion that a man's faith (man being the all encompassing mankind, not the gender) is a personal thing. Whether you believe or not is your business and nobody else's. Yet it fascinates me how many people take it so seriously. To the point of getting really angry, or in some countries / cultures killing each other.
So, my previous comment wasn't meant as any sort of logic, just a rhetorical question with no answer really. It could just as easily been: Wouldn't it suck if all you religious people found out there was no higher power?
WritingSolutions: I remember VBS as a kid as being a ton of fun. Sure there's some religion involved (could be more or less depending on the group) but what I remember the most about it was that it was more focused on the kids enjoying themselves than cramming any kind of doctrine into their brains.
So, my previous comment wasn't meant as any sort of logic, just a rhetorical question with no answer really. It could just as easily been: Wouldn't it suck if all you religious people found out there was no higher power?
WritingSolutions: I remember VBS as a kid as being a ton of fun. Sure there's some religion involved (could be more or less depending on the group) but what I remember the most about it was that it was more focused on the kids enjoying themselves than cramming any kind of doctrine into their brains.
Yeah I agree, it's a good thing for kids regardless of what I believe haha. I'll see how the older boys like the idea. The 2 year old really wants to go there every time we walk or drive by now too.
I'll take one for the team and bring the family there next weekend to talk to the pastor guy. He's younger than I am which makes me feel a little old haha.
I'll take one for the team and bring the family there next weekend to talk to the pastor guy. He's younger than I am which makes me feel a little old haha.
Yup, nothing like getting the little buggers brainwashed nice and early! The church loves that kind of stuff.
And what kid has fun at fucking bible classes?
a. The mass and size of this planet are just right. If it was 10% larger or smaller, life would not be possible upon this planet. It is just the right distance from the sun for heat and cold. Farther and we would freeze, closer and we would be baked.
b. Consider the tilt of the axis of the earth. No other planet has our 23 degree tilt. This enables all parts of the surface to have sun light. Without this, the poles would build up enormous ice and the equator would become intensely hot.
c. Consider the moon. Without the tides created by the moon, all our harbors and shores would become one stench pool of garbage. The tides and waves based upon the moon's movement and gravitational pull aerate the oceans and provide oxygen for the plankton, which is the very foundation of the food chain of our world. Without plankton, there would not be oxygen and man would not be able to live on the earth. The moon is the right size and the right distance from the earth. Agnostic astronomer Robert Jastrow concludes in his book God and the Astronomers, "For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries."
d. Consider the atmosphere. We live under a great ocean of air --- 78% nitrogen and 21% oxygen. Spectrographic studies of other planets in the stellar universe show that no other atmosphere, no other part of the known universe is made up of these same ingredients. These elements are continually mixed by the tidal effect of the moon, giving man the right balance.
e. Consider the nitrogen cycle. It is inert -- if not, we would all be poisoned by different forms of nitrous combinations. Because of its inertness, it is impossible for us to get it to combine naturally with other things. 100,000 lightning bolts strike this planet daily, creating a hundred million tons of usable nitrogen plant food in the soil every year.
what coincidences..
b. Consider the tilt of the axis of the earth. No other planet has our 23 degree tilt. This enables all parts of the surface to have sun light. Without this, the poles would build up enormous ice and the equator would become intensely hot.
c. Consider the moon. Without the tides created by the moon, all our harbors and shores would become one stench pool of garbage. The tides and waves based upon the moon's movement and gravitational pull aerate the oceans and provide oxygen for the plankton, which is the very foundation of the food chain of our world. Without plankton, there would not be oxygen and man would not be able to live on the earth. The moon is the right size and the right distance from the earth. Agnostic astronomer Robert Jastrow concludes in his book God and the Astronomers, "For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries."
d. Consider the atmosphere. We live under a great ocean of air --- 78% nitrogen and 21% oxygen. Spectrographic studies of other planets in the stellar universe show that no other atmosphere, no other part of the known universe is made up of these same ingredients. These elements are continually mixed by the tidal effect of the moon, giving man the right balance.
e. Consider the nitrogen cycle. It is inert -- if not, we would all be poisoned by different forms of nitrous combinations. Because of its inertness, it is impossible for us to get it to combine naturally with other things. 100,000 lightning bolts strike this planet daily, creating a hundred million tons of usable nitrogen plant food in the soil every year.
what coincidences..
'To suppose that the eye with all its inimitable contrivances for adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest degree.' - Darwin ..
Well then, I will tell you. Alexander, Caesar, Charlemagne and I myself have founded great empires; but upon what did these creations of our genius depend? Upon force. Jesus alone founded His empire upon love, and to this very day millions will die for Him.... I think I understand something of human nature; and I tell you, all these were men, and I am a man: none else is like Him; Jesus Christ was more than man... - Napoleon Bonaparte
know this friends.. a lot of these so called 'christians' that have turned you off from christianity were not christians.. christianity is not a religion its a relationship.. its not based on rules its based on a relationship..
Grace and Peace..
Well then, I will tell you. Alexander, Caesar, Charlemagne and I myself have founded great empires; but upon what did these creations of our genius depend? Upon force. Jesus alone founded His empire upon love, and to this very day millions will die for Him.... I think I understand something of human nature; and I tell you, all these were men, and I am a man: none else is like Him; Jesus Christ was more than man... - Napoleon Bonaparte
know this friends.. a lot of these so called 'christians' that have turned you off from christianity were not christians.. christianity is not a religion its a relationship.. its not based on rules its based on a relationship..
Grace and Peace..
I'm a children's minister at my church and according to all the kids we have they love it.
You need to realize that in most cases , kid's church in most larger/progressive churches is more like a party and less like a "Church" service.
No brainwashing goes on, however we try to enforce positive values in kids that EVERY SINGLE HUMAN BEING SHOULD HAVE.
Would you rather we "brainwash" kids saying they should kill , do drugs, drink , ect or would it be better to try and teach them positive values?
Ok, that's it for members of wickedfire church as of late...lol
The problem that I have with religious is either they say stuff like mindcryme or like Rage9. Accept for some physics forums, it's hard to fine people willing to have fun debates about religion like goes on in politics. Everyone is so interested in defending their views as in "you are going to hell atheist" or "you crazy and stupid and believe in magic Christian".
I'll tell you this, if you ever want to have some fun discussing religion, kick it with some Swedish agnostics. As as many of you know the scandinavian countries are probably the most irreligious in the world.
Ironically, I've seen more calm, cool, collected rational card-carrying atheists there than anywhere in the world. Similarly, I have met some of the nicest Jehovah's Witnesses in the world - as in you only have to say "no" once and they leave you alone....
perhaps it's the cold weather or something. or when you are accustomed to peace you know how to talk about the most emotionally-charged issues peacefully. I guess that's why the swedes are regarded as perhas the world's best diplomats....
The problem that I have with religious is either they say stuff like mindcryme or like Rage9. Accept for some physics forums, it's hard to fine people willing to have fun debates about religion like goes on in politics. Everyone is so interested in defending their views as in "you are going to hell atheist" or "you crazy and stupid and believe in magic Christian".
I'll tell you this, if you ever want to have some fun discussing religion, kick it with some Swedish agnostics. As as many of you know the scandinavian countries are probably the most irreligious in the world.
Ironically, I've seen more calm, cool, collected rational card-carrying atheists there than anywhere in the world. Similarly, I have met some of the nicest Jehovah's Witnesses in the world - as in you only have to say "no" once and they leave you alone....
perhaps it's the cold weather or something. or when you are accustomed to peace you know how to talk about the most emotionally-charged issues peacefully. I guess that's why the swedes are regarded as perhas the world's best diplomats....
more "coincidences"... when materials solidify they become denser & heavier, except for water, which when solidified expands and becomes lighter. Therefore it floats. If it didn't, ice would sink to the bottom & rivers and lakes would eventually become a solid frozen mass. The fishies sure wouldn't like that.
Water is also the only naturally occurring substance on earth that has 3 forms - gas, liquid & solid. Without those 3 forms, life as we know it would not exist on this planet.
Source
Water is also the only naturally occurring substance on earth that has 3 forms - gas, liquid & solid. Without those 3 forms, life as we know it would not exist on this planet.
Source
isn't it odd that questions are discouraged in organized religion? you are just supposed to nod your head or scream amen. yet the subject of religion is something that naturally causes people to ask big questions.
i find that religious people act like they understand the will of god, then when the discussion deepens, admit that god is unknowable.
pretending to understand turns off the questions.
You can do all that without religion.
One thing i absolutely hate is the people who dont think you cant have morals without religion. WTF! :eek7:
I have that question alot , and it's true that for the most part you can teach morals without religion (However out of all the people I know , very few do instill morals into their kids).
HOWEVER , I find that in today's society ethics change every few days. In religion we base our morals off of something that doesn't change (The bible in my case). I can bring up a bunch of different scenarios but won't bother putting more stuff in the thread.
PS. At church , I tell the kids to ask as many questions as they can, becuase their friends will be asking them questions. I know I don't have the answer t to EVERYTHING , but I do know how to get it
I'm also a huge science/space nut and do really feel that my belief system doesn't interfere with science at all. Heck , at least in my bible it stated a scientific fact (that the sun can only burn so long) almost 3000 years before it was accepted by the science community.
If you think the bible has been around for 3000 years, you've got a lot to learn about religion.
you ever listened to sermon jams? pretty sick way to get the word in while you're running/lifting weights/working/mowing lawn/riding in car/ etc..
ill pm you some sweet links if interested..
Psalm 102:25-27 - The universe is winding down and will "wear out" (second law of thermodynamics ensures that the universe will run down due to "heat death"-maximum entropy)
And according to all historical purposes , the book of Psalms was written by King David around 1500 BC.
What were you saying?
The bible is not a scientific document though it does contain great moral or spiritual truths. Furthermore there have been many "bibles" throughout the ages.
The bible is a book made of paper like every other book.
"the kingdom of god is within"
anyone worshipping a book should call themselves a wiccan (the people who do the fire dances and stuff and worship nature, i.e. tries).
I'm not disrespecting anyone's belief, I'm just saying if you assume that God made you (for those who aren't atheists) you should also assume he gave you a head to think, neuro-connections with which to reason, logic and rationality.
Typical, distort everything to your advantage...
Here's exactly how those passages read, from three separate editions of the bible...
Where do you see any reference to this:
Don't tell me your bible predicted "global warming"... even if you were able to twist it a bit more to claim that, it wouldn't help your case - global warming is about as real to me as that religion you're selling.
Oh, and pssst... there's a lot more in your bible than the book of Psalms.
Well, Newton's second law says:
Newton's Second Law
Hence if the universe is expanding, by the classical laws of physics, there has to be something contracting (few people even think about this - what is contracting??)...
The only thing scientifically I've heard vaguely similar to this is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPgII_4ciFU
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