Thatcher and Socialist Sentiment

[maybenot]

First time I've created a thread so I fully expect to have a bleeding anus within a few posts, but in the meantime I wonder who else here has noticed the socialist bleating coming out of the UK. I'm from there originally and it scares the hell out of me. The kind of comments I see on Facebook and in newspapers reminds me why I left. Europe in general is even worse, but the UK seems to be heading down the same path.

Many people in the UK have some variation on the following beliefs:

If you're successful you were lucky (i.e. I could have done it if I'd been lucky like you)
If you're successful you owe society because you couldn't have done it without it (i.e. the obese mother of 10 who had the exact same society - chances - and who does nothing but suck the life out of it is somehow owed money by the woman who took risks and made something out of her life)
If you're successful and weren't lucky you must have stolen it, and therefore you don't deserve it.

And you feel it, in the street, in a cafe, wherever. 'Look at that guy, let's bring him down a bit the bastard... I wish I had that, I wish I had tried harder and not been a fucking loser my whole life.'

Thatcher wasn't perfect, but she had more balls, and sense, than any of these pussies we have now in all the goddamn 'political' parties in the UK.

I know I know, cool starry brah

But at least here there are plenty of people who aren't a bunch of bleating whinos draining whatever they can from everyone else in a race to the bottom. Main reason I signed up.

 

[guerilla]

Not a bad post. Humanity seems ill equipped (in an evolutionary sense) to emotionally handle material prosperity.

We don't have that attitude in Canada (yet) but there is a perception that people who have done well owe everyone else something. Why? I don't know. I suspect the people who think that also don't know why.

But at least here there are plenty of people who aren't a bunch of bleating whinos draining whatever they can from everyone else in a race to the bottom. Main reason I signed up.

You'll find most of them are losers and only here because the forum is pretty laid back about allowing losers to lose.

This forum is relatively super-capitalist compared to almost all others.

I mean, we actually have about 2 dozen people who identify as anarcho-capitalists or with the ideas of anarcho-capitalism.

 

[maybenot]

Not a bad post. Humanity seems ill equipped (in an evolutionary sense) to emotionally handle material prosperity.

We don't have that attitude in Canada (yet) but there is a perception that people who have done well owe everyone else something. Why? I don't know. I suspect the people who think that also don't know why.

This is something I've really tried hard to understand. I'd be lying if I didn't say I felt it in myself at one time when I was younger, but seeing it for what it was I changed and in fact I was revolted by myself for thinking that way. Talking to people I try to ask them why... but there's no satisfactory answer I've yet discovered.

You'll find most of them are losers and only here because the forum is pretty laid back about allowing losers to lose.

This forum is relatively super-capitalist compared to almost all others.

I mean, we actually have about 2 dozen people who identify as anarcho-capitalists or with the ideas of anarcho-capitalism.

I don't feel I've learnt enough yet or understand enough about the world to define myself in any particular way, but I sure as hell know a lot more than before thanks to reading this forum, other forums and opinions all over. For example it was actually you that made me aware of the outright scam that capital gains tax is on the gain you make from selling a property (with inflation not being taken into account). When I read that I couldn't believe how stupid I'd been!

 

[AdamC]

You have summed up the UK perfectly, unfortunately.

It's a country of moaners that wont do anything about whatever it is they are moaning about.

I think it's to do with the climate.

 

[guerilla]

Talking to people I try to ask them why... but there's no satisfactory answer I've yet discovered.

I've come to an unsatisfying conclusion about many people. They don't think things through to principles and they don't really care to. They are able to fuck, eat, drink, sleep and laugh without having to understand much, and maybe there is a lesson in that for those of us that like to think a bit too much.

When I read that I couldn't believe how stupid I'd been!

Yup, we've all been there. That's the one that comes to mind when I hear people try to rationalize any tax, be it flat tax, consumption tax whatever. There are no "just" taxes.

Re: Thatcher, I don't know a lot about her, but she was basically a classical conservative, very well educated on economics and political theory. And that she was very tough.

 

[maybenot]

I've come to an unsatisfying conclusion about many people. They don't think things through to principles and they don't really care to. They are able to fuck, eat, drink, sleep and laugh without having to understand much, and maybe there is a lesson in that for those of us that like to think a bit too much.


Yup, we've all been there.

Re: Thatcher, I don't know a lot about her, but she was basically a classical conservative, very well educated on economics and political theory. And that she was very tough.

On Thatcher: there's a great speech she gives to a Labour MP in parliament where she says they (Labour) would rather have everyone poorer, so long as the gap between rich and poor is smaller. Plus some other stuff.

It's at the beginning of this video:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okHGCz6xxiw]Margaret Thatcher on Socialism - YouTube[/ame]

 

[maybenot]

I've come to an unsatisfying conclusion about many people. They don't think things through to principles and they don't really care to. They are able to fuck, eat, drink, sleep and laugh without having to understand much, and maybe there is a lesson in that for those of us that like to think a bit too much.

And on this note, I do often find myself thinking (pun intended) that I'd be a lot happier if I could just stop thinking all the time.

 

[maybenot]

Damn, I forgot one other thing these types of people usually think:

If something bad happens, it's ALWAYS someone else's fault. It's simply impossible that perhaps stuffing your face with fries and cigarettes could, you know, give you diabetes and cancer. It took me years to realize that it's not so much McDonald's, as the morons who live off it, who should take responsibility.

 

[Incantation]

Amazed she got by on 4 hours sleep every night and still managed to run the country for 11 years. It's no surprise she suffered so much with strokes over the years. RIP.

 

[tomaszjot]

I guess for many "socialist reality" is the only one they know. Not many actually question reality they are surrounded with. Just like Euclidean geometry is something you don't probably question despite the fact you can describe the world using different one.

 

[ly2 from WF]

OP is a reformed eurofag.

 

[mattseh]

OP, I think I love you.

 

[maybenot]

OP, I think I love you.

I think I saw you're from the UK but travel like me too. Where are you now? PM me if you want, I'll get the lube ready

 

[BlokBlok]

I know in the US, the mindset of "They are 'rich' lets bring them down to our level" attitude seems to be growing since Barry got in the Whitehouse opposed to "They are 'rich' I want to try and be like that."

 

[maybenot]

I know in the US, the mindset of "They are 'rich' lets bring them down to our level" attitude seems to be growing since Barry got in the Whitehouse opposed to "They are 'rich' I want to try and be like that."

This is kind of wild speculation, but I've had the feeling for a while that the 'socialists' have used the banking crisis to their advantage by pretending that greed and free markets are the cause of the pain, when in fact it's the endless reams of regulation, the banking cartels, the central banks and their collusion, and all those politicians who are in on it that are the problem - and none of that is a free market. This seems to have affected people's opinions a lot recently on both sides of the atlantic, but more so in the UK.

I think I'd find it very depressing if the US general sentiment continued going that way as you described.

 

[guerilla]

The lottery mentality is very common among people who don't understand economics.

To them, outcomes in life are not related to action, but to random events.

These are the same people who rationalize speculation as new economic paradigm, the true believers, the useful idiots of any economic boom.

 

[SEO_Person]

LOL... even if the people of this forum dont realise it...they must know already that they Have the presence of mind to overcome this shit...

 

[JarredLv]

I've come to an unsatisfying conclusion about many people. They don't think things through to principles and they don't really care to. They are able to fuck, eat, drink, sleep and laugh without having to understand much, and maybe there is a lesson in that for those of us that like to think a bit too much.

This is an unfortunate conclusion that I have come to. Ask a person to state their principles, then ask them to stand by those for one day. Most people can't. Most people won't.

 

[hellblazer]

There Is No Allternative[ame="http://www.amazon.com/There-Is-No-Alternative-Margaret/dp/0465031218"]([/ame] by Claire Berlinski is an excellent book about Thatcher. Truly amazing what she accomplished.

 

[lukep]

First time I've created a thread...at least here there are plenty of people who aren't a bunch of bleating whinos draining whatever they can from everyone else in a race to the bottom. Main reason I signed up.

Not too many people in the scheme of things realize this about WF when they stumble in here... Most aren't intelligent enough at all. So welcome, glad you joined... A few more like you signing up and our remaining socialist holdouts will be on the run for sure. :thumbsup:

Re: Thatcher, I don't know a lot about her, but she was basically a classical conservative, very well educated on economics and political theory. And that she was very tough.

As far as politicians go, I've got a long list of others I'd rather see suffer her fate first... But history shows that she was basically Reagan with a dress.

There was a lot about how she came to power by the exact same people that put Reagan in office too in the last chapter of Century of the Self. A very interesting turn of political events there.

Where are you now? PM me if you want, I'll get the lube ready

It feels so dirty watching a noob make his first homo joke on here... Like I'm part of a seriously corrupted culture and won't step up to stop it.

This is an unfortunate conclusion that I have come to. Ask a person to state their principles, then ask them to stand by those for one day. Most people can't. Most people won't.

Word.

I admit, it was only a few short years ago that I wouldn't have passed that test. None of us could have done so as children, either. The human race may have potential but it's pretty rare to see any of that potential met in practice.