They can do this in England because the citizens are unarmed!

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You are assuming anyone here is Muslim.

As for me:
Bzzzt.... Try again.

::emp::
 


toolohen said:
I always hear "the majority of Muslims are not represented by these extremists"

Yet you let these same extremists get away with being the most vocal and visible part of your community.

Your moderates need to step up and UNCONDITIONALLY CONDEMN suicide bombers, extremists, ALL acts of terrorism and violence in general.

To put it simply, the moderates in your community SUCK at getting their message heard and its clear the extremists in your community are WINNING the propaganda war.

Then is it any wonder people start associating all of Islam with these extremists and their fucked up ideology?
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I'm not sure we have any Muslims here and if we do I can't blame them for keeping quiet when we've got people saying they are all the same and should be shot.

The main Muslim groups worldwide HAVE condemned terrorism, yet still the Christian right (and others) pick holes in it and refuses to accept that most Muslims do not want to kill people.

Emp is spot on, Just because a book written thousands of years ago (to advance a particular cause at a particular time, much like the Bible) says certain things it doesn't mean the followers of that faith take it literally. How many Christians eat seafood? ;)

Are you religious? I might be wrong but I guess you may be. After your great post on another thread about people insulting Indians and religious tolerance in India your opinions here seem very hypocritical.

I don't like organised religion. It divides more than it unites. Spirituality is one area of life that I feel we should approach from an individual rather than group mentality. A personal quest if you like. However I accept that many people do take comfort from their faith and I can live with that as long as they don't force it other people (including their kids - but that's another subject).

I went to Malaysia last year - a (relatively) moderate Muslim country. Yes they do have some aspects of their society I don't particularly like (such as extreme punishment for smoking weed for example), but overall they are very very tolerant and so fucking friendly! I had a great night getting drunk with a lot of 'bad Muslims' to celebrate their independence from my country.

The only solution to dealing with any possible threat from extremists is to remove or reduce the reasons for people to be attracted to extremism. That's a lot easier to do in the UK than in Saudi Arabia or the Gaza strip.
 
toolohen said:
I always hear "the majority of Muslims are not represented by these extremists"

Yet you let these same extremists get away with being the most vocal and visible part of your community.

Your moderates need to step up and UNCONDITIONALLY CONDEMN suicide bombers, extremists, ALL acts of terrorism and violence in general.

To put it simply, the moderates in your community SUCK at getting their message heard and its clear the extremists in your community are WINNING the propaganda war.

Then is it any wonder people start associating all of Islam with these extremists and their fucked up ideology?
Click to expand...


if you have not noticed, in the areas where extremism is rampant, there is a lack of security. the moderates fear speaking up because they fear having their family slaughtered. put yourself in their shoes.

also, how do you know they are the most visible and prominent voice in the islamic world? is this first hand knowledge, or is it the perception you see due to the media's influence?

let's try to be a little open minded here
 
toolohen said:
I always hear "the majority of Muslims are not represented by these extremists"

Yet you let these same extremists get away with being the most vocal and visible part of your community.

Your moderates need to step up and UNCONDITIONALLY CONDEMN suicide bombers, extremists, ALL acts of terrorism and violence in general.

To put it simply, the moderates in your community SUCK at getting their message heard and its clear the extremists in your community are WINNING the propaganda war.

Then is it any wonder people start associating all of Islam with these extremists and their fucked up ideology?
Click to expand...

Here.. Take a look at this..

YouTube - Vlog #9: Who Hijacked Islam??!

yup. i'm a muslim.

from malaysia. glad you liked my country :D

err.. I'm not the 'bad muslim' crowd though.
 
seocracy said:
Im a muslim.






mo.jpg
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SEOCracy, I gotta give you credit, posting this took GUTS.
 
emp said:
Some of these interpret the stories about their prophet's (Mohammed) life (the Sunna) as part of the Q'ran, whereas it really is not. This is where a lot of the crap comes from, for example female circumcision.
Basically, it says "Mohammed had his daughters circumcised" and they go ahead and say "That's the law"..
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As far as I know Mohammed did not have his daughters circumcised. Can you please give me the reference in the Sunna because that is serious news to me!


And LOL at the person who knows what TRUE Islam is without even being a Muslim. Pure Gold! Well I declare the godhatesfags crew to be TRUE Christians. Now where do we stand? Nowhere.

Demonising the majority will do nothing to deal with the violent minority.
 
popeye said:
EDIT: I am not sure why but most Europeans don't recognize the threat radical Islam is to thier way of life. I do know that the Euros better wake up or someday it will be to late.
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I'm sorry but what is it with Americans and these apocalyptic fantasies? I'm a European and I am in no doubt about the threat posed by radical Islam to me way of life. IT DOESN'T POSE ANY.

Let me clarify: my life IS threatened by radical Islam. I may be killed in a terrorist attack, its unlikely but it is possible, but my WAY OF LIFE is not threatened in any way. I will continue to drink alcohol, eat swine flesh, worship false idols and leer at women with their faces (and plenty more) uncovered in public. Islam is not threatening how I live my life in any way nor could it conceivably in the future. I live in a liberal democracy.

I'm guessing you've read one of those books where they say how Muslims are breeding so much faster than everyone else in evil old secular socialist Europe and soon Europe will be Muslim arrgghhh! LOL! Well all I can say is don't let real maths get in the way of a good paranoid fantasy :)
 
No threat in Europe you say? What about the riots in France? Bombs and threats of more in England? Spain's train bombing? Popeye is dead on! If you do not wake up soon, you may not wake up at all. And please do not come to the US looking for help, we have had to bail you out too many times already!!:mad:
 
As to female circumcision:

(Seems it is the Hadith, I might have gotten my terms wrong)

n response to the question, the eminent Muslim scholar, Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi, states:
Actually, this is a controversial issue among jurists and even among doctors. It has sparked off fierce debate in Egypt whereby scholars and doctors are split into proponents and opponents.

However, the most moderate opinion and the most likely one to be correct is in favor of practicing circumcision in the moderate Islamic way indicated in some of the Prophet's hadiths – even though such hadiths are not confirmed to be authentic. It is reported that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said to a midwife: "Reduce the size of the clitoris but do not exceed the limit, for that is better for her health and is preferred by husbands". The hadith indicates that circumcision is better for a woman's health and it enhances her conjugal relation with her husband. It’s noteworthy that the Prophet's saying "do not exceed the limit" means do not totally remove the clitoris.

Actually, Muslim countries differ over the issue of female circumcision; some countries sanction it whereas others do not. Anyhow, it is not obligatory, whoever finds it serving the interest of his daughters should do it, and I personally support this under the current circumstances in the modern world. But whoever chooses not to do it is not considered to have committed a sin for it is mainly meant to dignify women as held by scholars.

As for male circumcision, it is one of the obligatory practices in Islam. Scholars even hold that whoever finds that some Muslims have stopped practicing male circumcision should force them to revert to this Sunnah that characterizes the Muslim nation.
​
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Source:
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/...h-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503543886

::emp::
 
Did you actually read my post?

Radical Islam poses a threat to my LIFE but not to my WAY OF LIFE. Plenty of things threaten my life but I see no real reason to stress about them on a daily basis.

In Europe we have been dealing with terrorism for centuries. Its unpleasent, but we can handle it. In the UK we have dealt with the IRA (and let us not forget all the Americans who helped fund the IRA!!) and Spain has had ETA etc. When we got bombed on 7/7 we didn't endlessly agonise about "why do they hate us?" and feel like our innocence had been taken away because we knew the cause of these issues and similar things have happened many times before. Politicians here do not feel it is acceptable to answer every tough question with "7/7" in the same way 9/11 is exploited in your country.

In tackling Islamic extremism the USA is already helping us, and we are already helping them (have you forgotten that our troops are still dying in Iraq with yours despite public opinion being so against it?). So what do you mean by the USA 'won't help us'? I'm not sure specifically what kind of help you think we would need to ask for or that you would choose to withhold.

I'm unsure what you mean by "wake up" anyway. We're pretty wide awake and dealing with the issues just as much as the USA is. Radical Islam is not a threat to the European way of life.
 
Perhaps if you would actually respond to my arguments instead of attacking me as a person then I could stand a chance to become as enlightened as you are.
 
Okay, Kier. Sorry if I hurt your feelings. If the extremists want to convert or kill anybody that doesn't believe just like them how will that not change the European way of life? They don't give a rat's ass about your individual rights, they could care less about you claiming not to wish them any harm, they do not want to live peaceably with you, they want you to become them or die. Period.
 
Oogie as I already stated, extremists of the kind you describe are a small minority of Muslims. In Europe when they commit a crime we punish them, when we think they are going to commit a crime we put them under surveillance. In short, we are not 'asleep' as to the issue of Islamic terrorism. What is important to realise however is that these people do not stand any chance of killing or converting anything more than a very small percentage of our population. They are a criminal threat, not a political threat. As such my distinction that they pose a threat to our lives but not to our way of lives is very important.

I do not think we should live in peace with people who want to kill us, who would say that? I'm not sure what it is you think we should be doing that we aren't, please explain yourself further.
 
The difference is that criminals do what they do for personal gain. The extremists do what they do with the moral authority of God. Criminals do not want to get caught, extremists do not care. They want to change you and your government to theirs. They are patient, skilled, and do not fear your punishment. This is a long term war. Dealing with it strictly as a crime will not solve the problem. Sometimes you need to smack the dog to make it behave. You have to kill the rabid ones.
 
So they don't fear our punishment but we should kill them why? As a deterrent? You do realise these people WANT us to kill them don't you? Because then they are a 'martyr'.

Again - you are talking in broad terms using analogies. Who are the rabid dogs you speak of? Terrorists who have committed a crime? Muslims who hold extreme views but don't act on them? All Muslims?

Please give specific proposals and what they would achieve based on evidence. Talk of rabid dogs gets us nowhere.
 
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