This Wikileaks thing

Very interesting legal questions being raised about the US potentially trying Assange.
Gabriel Schoenfeld: Can the U.S. Bring Assange to Justice? - WSJ.com

The Espionage Act of 1917 is not so broad (not unless it's spun or a loophole is found, anyway) to include actors who are not working on behalf of a foreign government. It would take a revision of law or, at the very least, some very creative lawyering to ever try him in the US. Again, it gets back to something Insomniac said in the other Assange thread (http://www.wickedfire.com/shooting-shit/109203-assange-fucked-3.html#post1085303)... currently it is alright to drive the getaway car as long as you didn't rob the bank.
 


phillian said:
Very interesting legal questions being raised about the US potentially trying Assange.
Gabriel Schoenfeld: Can the U.S. Bring Assange to Justice? - WSJ.com

The Espionage Act of 1917 is not so broad (not unless it's spun or a loophole is found, anyway) to include actors who are not working on behalf of a foreign government. It would take a revision of law or, at the very least, some very creative lawyering to ever try him in the US. Again, it gets back to something Insomniac said in the other Assange thread (http://www.wickedfire.com/shooting-shit/109203-assange-fucked-3.html#post1085303)... currently it is alright to drive the getaway car as long as you didn't rob the bank.
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So the guy hasn't broken any laws but it's alright, fuck it, lets create one especially for him. He is a journalist and didn't steal anything, he is not a master spy. So the owners of the newspapers that broke stories on the tobacco companies and Enron should go to jail for corporate espionage???
 
Ar Scion said:
Why do you claim it is okay to peddle stolen information that is of a sensitive nature that could harm national interests including national security and diplomatic ties, let alone lead to possible setbacks in the war on terror and the compromising of the safety and lives of people?
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He's not peddling it. He's not trying to sell it to anyone.

He's taking documents, video, audio, etc. that were given to him by people with the security clearance (granted, I'm sure some of it is information hacker's found, but I doubt those cable feeds were) and making it available for every nation's citizens to know what their government is doing behind closed doors.

We, as a people, can't effectively keep our government in check armed with only the information that the mainstream media provides us. The media and politicians are not here for the people's best interests, they are corrupted and are used by a select few. Those select few have made the government do shady things, and the media is their tool to whitewash those actions clean by putting different spins on it. The history books are a prime example of this.

Even our founding fathers told us that we should not trust our government.

Ar Scion said:
You have as much right to know this shit as I have the right to know details of your own personal correspondence.
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It's not a person's personal information. I don't have a right to know your personal life, but I do have a right to know what my government is up to, and make the necessary noise and protests if I don't agree with their actions.

The two are not the same, so that is a very bad comparison.

Now, if you are using it to compare two countries knowing each others personal information, then maybe. Even then, it's not information that outs troop movements in real time, it's a couple years old data. If Al Qaeda, North Korea, and Iran haven't figured out that information by now, then they wouldn't still be around.

Again, it's just putting the history of our past in perspective and allowing us to take the necessary actions in the future to make sure we don't remain sheeple.
 
Rexibit said:
He's not peddling it. He's not trying to sell it to anyone.

He's taking documents, video, audio, etc. that were given to him by people with the security clearance (granted, I'm sure some of it is information hacker's found, but I doubt those cable feeds were) and making it available for every nation's citizens to know what their government is doing behind closed doors.

We, as a people, can't effectively keep our government in check armed with only the information that the mainstream media provides us. The media and politicians are not here for the people's best interests, they are corrupted and are used by a select few. Those select few have made the government do shady things, and the media is their tool to whitewash those actions clean by putting different spins on it. The history books are a prime example of this.

Even our founding fathers told us that we should not trust our government.



It's not a person's personal information. I don't have a right to know your personal life, but I do have a right to know what my government is up to, and make the necessary noise and protests if I don't agree with their actions.

The two are not the same, so that is a very bad comparison.

Now, if you are using it to compare two countries knowing each others personal information, then maybe. Even then, it's not information that outs troop movements in real time, it's a couple years old data. If Al Qaeda, North Korea, and Iran haven't figured out that information by now, then they wouldn't still be around.

Again, it's just putting the history of our past in perspective and allowing us to take the necessary actions in the future to make sure we don't remain sheeple.
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AMEN! Couldn't have put it better myself
 
Rexibit said:
He's not peddling it. He's not trying to sell it to anyone.

He's taking documents, video, audio, etc. that were given to him by people with the security clearance (granted, I'm sure some of it is information hacker's found, but I doubt those cable feeds were) and making it available for every nation's citizens to know what their government is doing behind closed doors.

We, as a people, can't effectively keep our government in check armed with only the information that the mainstream media provides us. The media and politicians are not here for the people's best interests, they are corrupted and are used by a select few. Those select few have made the government do shady things, and the media is their tool to whitewash those actions clean by putting different spins on it. The history books are a prime example of this.

Even our founding fathers told us that we should not trust our government.



It's not a person's personal information. I don't have a right to know your personal life, but I do have a right to know what my government is up to, and make the necessary noise and protests if I don't agree with their actions.

The two are not the same, so that is a very bad comparison.

Now, if you are using it to compare two countries knowing each others personal information, then maybe. Even then, it's not information that outs troop movements in real time, it's a couple years old data. If Al Qaeda, North Korea, and Iran haven't figured out that information by now, then they wouldn't still be around.

Again, it's just putting the history of our past in perspective and allowing us to take the necessary actions in the future to make sure we don't remain sheeple.
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The point is, the media that were "given to him" were illegally obtained as a result of criminal activity. When it comes to information pertaining to national security and the integrity of Federal functioning, it should be illegal to possess such information if it isn't already. Additionally, when they knowingly take part in transactions with criminals instead of reporting them, they are complicit in the crime. Keep in mind, having access to secure material doesn't give you access to publicize the material. What would we do if nuclear weapons manufacturers worked on this principle?

Let's at least acknowledge these things.

I'm not advocating unlimited government power. I'm not saying there shouldn't be transparency. I'm not saying the government should do what they want and fuck the people over.

I'm saying when it comes to the American government, the American people and the system should have precedence. We have a mechanism in place to hold the government accountable. If the mechanism is not working well, we must seek to reform the process.

I believe most of us have the country's best interests at heart. Assange and WikiLeaks don't. Whatever their ideology is, it does not include "protecting the security, prosperity and sovereignty of the United States".

What WikiLeaks is doing is a hijack of government functioning. It's a result of theft. And WikiLeaks is following it up with blackmail. I just don't see this as the right way to do it.
 
We have a mechanism in place to hold the government accountable. If the mechanism is not working well, we must seek to reform the process.
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You can only hold the government accountable if you have the true facts. How can you hold someone accountable for that which you do not know?
 
JakeStratham said:
At Ar Scion:

I'm curious.

Do you consider the publisher of the New York Times (Arthur Sulzberger) a criminal for possessing and publishing these documents?
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I can't speak for Sulzberger individually. If NYT published these documents, they should be penalized accordingly. Freedom of the press should not violate the functioning of the government.

If the issue is that these documents shouldn't be classified in the first place, that's a separate issue altogether.

nickster said:
You can only hold the government accountable if you have the true facts. How can you hold someone accountable for that which you do not know?
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Seriously, bro, you are an idiot.

Accountability should be applied before the fact. You don't publish everything and then pick and choose what you want to hold the government accountable for. That's like razing a forest to kill a mouse.

Legitimate opportunities for reform have arisen out of the Iraq War. But we knew that before WikiLeaks published anything. These latest cables show no wrongdoing. If anything, it's gratifying to see American diplomats so brutally honest.

Was that feeling worth violating the security of federal communication?
 
Accountability should be applied before the fact. You don't publish everything and then pick and choose what you want to hold the government accountable for.
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I actually vote this as one of the most illogical statements ever posted on WF (and there have been quite a few).

I am done arguing with someone who can't even make a coherent point
 
nickster said:
I actually vote this as one of the most illogical statements ever posted on WF (and there have been quite a few).

I am done arguing with someone who can't even make a coherent point
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Why vote it when you can leak it?
 
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