Thoughts on elimination of the state and privatization of property

Not sure this is relevant. Berry pickers didn't up and become web designers.

It seems my message was lost in translation. My dot com illustration was used as an example of booming industries advancing lower paid workers into higher paying positions by the power of the free market and was not to be taken in the literal sense you stated.

Ever lived hard?

Sure have.

I mean, have you ever had to decide between paying rent, eating, and a repair bill to fix your car which suddenly broke down - your only means of transportation to your job?

Yes, more times than I care to recall.

Ever lost a tooth because you couldn't afford to see a dentist?

Yes again.

These are day-to-day realities for people in the America, let alone the rest of the world. Just because you don't see it (or choose not to), doesn't mean it's not happening. Preaching the gospel of the free market doesn't help these people; indeed, it shows an arrogance and callous disregard for their condition.

It was precisely those very hard times and life experiences that helped me form the beliefs I have today. I pulled myself up out of them without once expecting or even asking for a hand-out. I knew that depending on my own self-reliance was my best bet to shed the shackles of poverty and circumstance.


It might be useful for you to read some of the literature on privilege. It seems like it's a bit of an alien concept to most of those of a conservative or libertarian bent. You will be angrily dismissive about it at first (trust me), but if you give it some time and an open mind, it may offer you some new perspective on things.

It's arrogant for you to finger-point at conservatives and libertarians when the very individuals demanding benefit from their self-perceived 'privilege' are the same liberal-minded ones who are waiting in line for their Obama hand-out (which was stolen from the hard working class of Americans).
 


I'd say the loss of the middle class has a lot to do with the transition from an industrial economy to a service economy.

A lot of people are living off the work of decades past - managing wealth created then, living off pensions paid into then, etc.

The internet helped a great deal, but at the end of the day it's a race to the bottom. How low can manufacturing costs go? How many jobs can the US really afford to lose to other countries? How many people are able to get the skills required to position themselves to earn a middle-class lifestyle?


It has, but that isn't due to markets or capitalism. It is due to socialism, most specifically the debasement of paper currency, which is 50% of all transactions (we trade goods and services for money). By eroding the value of the currency, that disincentivizes saving (the capital to increase productivity and gain social mobility) and incentivizes debt, which is a drag on people trying to get ahead (compounding interest payments).
 
It might be useful for you to read some of the literature on privilege. It seems like it's a bit of an alien concept to most of those of a conservative or libertarian bent. You will be angrily dismissive about it at first (trust me), but if you give it some time and an open mind, it may offer you some new perspective on things.

It might be useful for you and people who think like you to keep your hands out of my pockets.

I want my kids to have the best things in life. I want to put some braided steel cables on my Harley this summer. I want to pay off my house early and enjoy some financial security that I earn due to my abilities, my work ethic and a little luck.

I work with criminals 5 days a week. The vast majority of them love the idea of my paycheck going towards their healthcare. They're not being charged to buy healthcare for someone else, they're not getting taxed out the ass to pay for government programs that don't do a fucking thing other than create another government job. They're not getting paychecks, you see - because they're criminals. They don't have jobs. They don't work 40 hours a week. They live with their mommas, they live with their baby momma's and they deal drugs and break into people's houses to get money to buy stupid shit with. They freely admit this.

Pull your head out of your ass and look around you. There are some people who run out of luck sometimes and slip through the cracks. You can't keep those people down in the long run, though - and I respect them for it and want to help them however I can.

But there are a whole lot more people out there who live in the cracks and love it down there with the cockroaches. Fuck those people. Let em starve or rot or die in the gutter. One less person to sling crack, break into my car, rape my sister or shoot a good kid in the street because they looked at em funny.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LotsOfZeros
But there are a whole lot more people out there who live in the cracks and love it down there with the cockroaches. Fuck those people. Let em starve or rot or die in the gutter. One less person to sling crack, break into my car, rape my sister or shoot a good kid in the street because they looked at em funny.

Preach on brotha +Rep
 
I'd say the loss of the middle class has a lot to do with the transition from an industrial economy to a service economy.
Service economies require less capital goods. Manufacturing is capital intensive.

As the value of a currency decreases, it becomes a less reliable store of value. In layman's terms, it is like a hot potato. People are inclined to spend their money faster (it has more value in the present) than to save it for the future, where its purchasing power will be lower.

Without those savings that can be pooled and invested for long term projects like mining, R&D, product design, Q&A, etc, it becomes very hard to maintain a capital base that will support manufacturing.

One of the key reasons why manufacturing is shifting to Asia, it that manufacturing always follows capital, and the savings are in Asia, and the debt is in the western democracies. In western democracies, businesses have to compete with their own governments in order to gain access to credit, but in the government surplus economies, nearly all credit available is available to private sector borrowers. China for example, has no "credit crunch". If anything, they have too much credit to extend, so much so, they lend it to western institutions which are going bankrupt.

A lot of people are living off the work of decades past - managing wealth created then, living off pensions paid into then, etc.
Another byproduct of economies which do not incentivize saving. People are inclined to spend money rather than to invest it for a return. They are consuming their capital. When it is all gone, they will not be able to compete with people who have capital, and they will have to start over from scratch, presumably with less work ethic and skills than the people who worked and saved all along. What is more likely, is that these are the people who will demand free services from government once they are no longer able to subsidize their lifestyles.

The internet helped a great deal, but at the end of the day it's a race to the bottom. How low can manufacturing costs go? How many jobs can the US really afford to lose to other countries? How many people are able to get the skills required to position themselves to earn a middle-class lifestyle?
It is not a race to the bottom, but if you are in a jurisdiction where capital is fleeing and debt is growing, then the future is not super bright. Low costs means we can afford more things. An economy doesn't get wealthier by charging more for goods and services. An economy gets wealthier when people become more productive, and can produce more things. That means things get cheaper, and we can go from owning 1 car to 2, and eating steak once a week to three times a week.

That is why you might only pay a ditch digger $5 an hour, but you can pay a steam shovel operator $25 an hour. He can dig ditches 10 times faster if you increase his productivity with a capital good. Likewise, a bookkeeper is a lot more efficient with Quicken, than they were doing manual journal entries 30 years ago. That computer and software increases productivity, and so makes the employee more valuable.

Another problem with manufacturing jobs has been unions. They have not allowed the workforce to shrink as fast as possible with technological advancement. Old guys hang on, waiting for buyouts, keeping jobs that are redundant. These are guys who only know how to work on assembly lines that were obsolete 20 years ago. But legally, and politically, they are incredibly powerful in the union. These high wage employees with low productivity, push businesses to invest outside the scope of the unions.
 
Preach on brotha +Rep

I was talking to some inmates today about North Omaha and why it's so fucked up. Omaha, despite our small size, is one of the deadliest places to be a black person in. Of course, if you get out of the North Omaha ghetto, you're ok.

We were talking about what to do about these problems, namely people running around and shooting other people and selling drugs and so on. It turns out that anytime someone get shot and the cops even manage to find a witness, that witness usually doesn't show up to testify because they're too afraid. Afraid that they or their families will get shot.

I suggested that if I lived in a neighborhood where the crime was getting to be a little too crazy, that myself and the neighbors who wanted to really make a change would do something about it.

I suggested that if there's someone in the neighborhood who won't play nice, someone who wants to threaten people, someone who wants to deal drugs on their street, maybe the only thing to do is to wipe those fucking people out and let them and others like them know that times they are a'changin.

You don't have to be a badass to surround a drug dealer's house with gasoline and set the house on fire. You don't have to be a ninja to wait for someone to hang out on the corner they always hang out on to sell crack, walk up to them and blow them away with a shotgun.

You just have to be a really pissed off citizen who is tired of things not getting done.

People just aren't pissed off enough.

There's too much black talent wasted and too much in the way of african-american smarts pissed down the drain in North O because people are tolerating too much shit in their neighborhoods.
 
Service economies require less capital goods. Manufacturing is capital intensive.

Manufacturing may be capital intensive, but it also produces something tangible that can be traded. Having a wide diversity in available jobs in an economy has to be a strength. Some people aren't meant for service jobs, management jobs or white collar jobs. Some people work best with their hands. I would think than an efficient economy would have outlets for as many of the citizens as possible to be as productive as possible. An unproductive citizen is a drag on everyone else, isn't he?

It is not a race to the bottom, but if you are in a jurisdiction where capital is fleeing and debt is growing, then the future is not super bright. Low costs means we can afford more things. An economy doesn't get wealthier by charging more for goods and services. An economy gets wealthier when people become more productive, and can produce more things. That means things get cheaper, and we can go from owning 1 car to 2, and eating steak once a week to three times a week.

But we run into hard limits. Labor is a huge cost. Competition drives producers to find cheaper sources of labor. They close a factory in the US and open one in China. Prices drop in half, but now we have fewer people employed in the US.

That is why you might only pay a ditch digger $5 an hour, but you can pay a steam shovel operator $25 an hour. He can dig ditches 10 times faster if you increase his productivity with a capital good. Likewise, a bookkeeper is a lot more efficient with Quicken, than they were doing manual journal entries 30 years ago. That computer and software increases productivity, and so makes the employee more valuable.

The problem with that is that wages don't rise with productivity. Someone who could balance books well in the past could make a good living because their skill was relatively rare. Any monkey could be trained to use quicken. So why not outsource that job to a country where we have little brown people chained to a desk and we can pay them peanuts?

Of course, with my internet properties, I do have something similar to the above situation going on. I can see both sides, but the solution is eluding me at the moment.

Another problem with manufacturing jobs has been unions. They have not allowed the workforce to shrink as fast as possible with technological advancement. Old guys hang on, waiting for buyouts, keeping jobs that are redundant. These are guys who only know how to work on assembly lines that were obsolete 20 years ago. But legally, and politically, they are incredibly powerful in the union. These high wage employees with low productivity, push businesses to invest outside the scope of the unions.

Unions and collective bargaining units are often the only thing preventing abusive owners/managers from running roughshod over the workers who need the jobs. I work in a union shop and appreciate the protection and due process my employer is required to go through in order to fire me because I made fun of his stupid hat.
 
See above. More specifically:
Thank you. I have mentioned this a few times, and I am happy you noticed. The debasement of the measuring unit for economic activity has catastrophic effects on long term planning.

Imagine if you tried to build a skyscraper, and the length of an inch fluctuated daily on the construction site.

What are the odds you could build it as intended, within budget, and on time?

I'd say nil. 2 out of 3 would be a miracle.
 
No, I am not. Read what I wrote again.

Right, communism. My bad.

The people who restrict sex, marriage, drugs, alcohol etc from other people. That is arguing against an individual's right to their own body.
I guess my point was you're probably not going to find anyone here that argues against that. For the most part.

Also, you own your body, therefore, you also own the fruits of your labor.

That means that taxes are illegitimate.
I don't know that this necessarily follows. If I build a house on someone else's property, it's not mine, is it? Similarly, I could say if you labor in the context or framework of a society, you are obligated to its rules, which may include giving up some of the fruits of your labor.

Again, you do not understand what I mean by rationality. I am not claiming anyone is objectively rational, as in "a perfect decision maker". I recognize that everyone makes subjective value judgments. No two people value the same thing, the same way at the same time.

But when people act, they always act towards what they think (within the limits of their knowledge and resources) is in their best interest. Thus, if you choose to steal rather than work, then it means you rationalized the action of stealing. You didn't think work was better, and then decided to steal anyways. If you did, you would be an irrational actor. You would be acting against your own interests, as best understood by you.

That is why socialism doesn't work. If you are supposed to serve your fellow man, even if it is at your detriment, and he is supposed to serve you, even if it is at his detriment, you have an irrational system where people are working towards ends that the other party cannot define, let alone desire.
Are you arguing against total socialism, or any socialism? We live in a society that has socialist aspects, and you're not "serving your fellow man," at least, not primarily.

It is a very narrow (and dangerous) view of the world, where you think YOU ALONE know how best to be compassionate (socialist planner hubris) but mankind as a species is vile and evil and lecherous, and if they are not made to serve each other at the barrel of a gun, society will unravel.
Who is the "you" in this sentence? I am certainly not alone in favoring some parts of society being socialized. I prefer the assurance of having people trained to handle emergencies a phone call away, should I need their services and regardless of whether I can pay them.

Yes, there are selfish, mean, cruel, violent people. I suspect for nearly all of us, they comprise a very small percentage of the people we interact with daily. If you remove politicians and bureaucrats, I bet it is less than 1%. Why? Because good people generally don't hang out with assholes. It would be irrational if they did.
This reminds me of something about how the same assholes always come out on top... (part of a George Carlin routine maybe?). Sociopathy is a useful character trait for getting into power, unfortunately.
 
Unions and collective bargaining units are often the only thing preventing abusive owners/managers from running roughshod over the workers who need the jobs. I work in a union shop and appreciate the protection and due process my employer is required to go through in order to fire me because I made fun of his stupid hat.

Unions only serve to protect shitty workers. As a manager, it behooves you to treat your best workers well in order to retain them, since they increase your bottom line.
 
Unions only serve to protect shitty workers. As a manager, it behooves you to treat your best workers well in order to retain them, since they increase your bottom line.

I'd have to disagree with you, at least in my situation.

We have officers who have been working in our jail for 30 years. In contrast, we've been through about 10-15 directors in that time.

Most directors aren't interested in more than what will make them look good for their next job. Some aren't even interested in that. They know the job is transitory for the next best thing.

Our employees, on the other hand, are in it for the long haul. Most of them are looking forward to the 40% pension at the end of the rainbow.

Directors in the past have abused their authority and targeted individuals for persecution based on nothing more than whim. We've had people fired by directors who were then hired back when civil service determined there had been no justification for firing.

Because directors didn't want to hire new personnel, we used to be able to be ordered to work overtime anytime. It was common to be ordered 5 days in a row. You could have a vacation scheduled, a plane ticket bought and an hour before your shift was up, you could get that call and be forced to work overtime. Now, thanks the the union, we're limited to being ordered to work two 16-hour shifts in a row and you can't be ordered on your Friday or before a vacation.

If a director got pissed off at someone, he could force that person to change shifts. Oh, you've been working B-shift and your childcare revolves around you being able to work that shift? Too bad, you didn't smile at the director so you're working overnights now. Now, thanks to the union, shift bidding happens every 6 months and is based on seniority.

Collective bargaining is a facet of our freedoms of association and of speech. It is a large reason why there are no more company towns. It is a large reason why child labor is limited.
 
Manufacturing may be capital intensive, but it also produces something tangible that can be traded. Having a wide diversity in available jobs in an economy has to be a strength. Some people aren't meant for service jobs, management jobs or white collar jobs. Some people work best with their hands. I would think than an efficient economy would have outlets for as many of the citizens as possible to be as productive as possible. An unproductive citizen is a drag on everyone else, isn't he?
I agree with the first half of your first sentence. But the rest doesn't follow from it.

Are manufacturing jobs necessarily good? I don't think so. I think being productive is good. Who here wants to give up working on their turbostations and hanging out in their underwear all day to go make widgets or paint cars? No thanks. I make a lot more money without having to put my shoes on, because I have a high level of productivity. The barriers to making money online are so low, you don't even need a diploma, degree, good credit, connections, or training, membership or a grant to get started.

Should an economy have enough diversity for everyone to have jobs they are best suited to? Sure. But most of us are pretty well suited to be pro-gamers or porn site testers. I'm not sure an economy of people jerkin the gherkin or making bad rap mixes, or posting political rants is one where the goods produced, are the goods in demand. People still like their garbage picked up, their clothes dry cleaned, and their produce fresh at the market.

But we run into hard limits. Labor is a huge cost. Competition drives producers to find cheaper sources of labor. They close a factory in the US and open one in China. Prices drop in half, but now we have fewer people employed in the US.
Sure, fewer people are employed. But they are getting cheaper goods by shifting production to where labor is cheaper. The idea is not to work more. It is to produce more. Ideally, we should all be working a 20 hour work week by now, but everyone has to pay for interest on debts, wars and welfare. We are more productive now than any time in human history, and yet families have 2 and sometimes 3 jobs to make ends meet. Something isn't right with this notion that full employment solves all problems. It solves all government problems, because the tax base grows, people don't have time for tea parties and welfare demand goes down, so those favors can be allocated away from the declining people in need to the people who need political favors (corporate subsidies).

Economies have to adjust. We don't make or consume or desire the stuff we made 50 years ago. It's not as simple as taking a trip back to 1960. Everything is cheaper now and we have more of it, because we aren't trying to make things at the highest cost, but at the lowest.

When you're unemployed, you have to get a new job. If there are no jobs, you need to start your own business. If there are no jobs, and you can't start your own business, then either regulation is out of control, or your standards are too high. No one has a right to a high wage at a job they like. That stuff still has to be earned for the same reason that giving people welfare (paying them to do nothing) isn't a right either.

The problem with that is that wages don't rise with productivity. Someone who could balance books well in the past could make a good living because their skill was relatively rare. Any monkey could be trained to use quicken. So why not outsource that job to a country where we have little brown people chained to a desk and we can pay them peanuts?
Sure, they made money because their skill was scarce. But as demand for their skill increased, there was competition, innovation (software development) and the price came down. Capitalism. Your argument is almost an argument against progress. I'm not saying that is what you intended, but that seems to be your issue. That if things were more expensive, and there was less competition then we would be richer.

Competition drives profits towards zero. It is the ultimate tool of economic progress, particularly for the poor whose smaller amount of purchasing power benefits most relative to prices falling. As prices reach near zero, an industry is mature, and investors start to invest elsewhere, to drive high prices in other markets down by grabbing a piece of the action. This is how the market dynamically allocates capital investment. The rate of return. As more capital is attracted, profits shrink, and the new capital looks for other areas to rape profits until the profits are so low from competition, they have to move on again.

Unions and collective bargaining units are often the only thing preventing abusive owners/managers from running roughshod over the workers who need the jobs. I work in a union shop and appreciate the protection and due process my employer is required to go through in order to fire me because I made fun of his stupid hat.
Sure, you are in a union, and it benefits you. That's not unexpected.

But what it does is artificially raise your labor rate above the rate in the competitive labor market. It makes it harder for people outside the union to compete with you for your job. Again, great for you. Shitty for your out of work neighbor who is willing to do your job for 9/10 of your wage. Ultimately, bad for your employer, who will eventually get tired of the union, and close/move the shop.

100 years ago, unions served a social purpose at times. In the progressive era, Unions were an important voting block, so they were painted as heroes by the politically directed education establishment. People also forget they murdered scabs and destroyed company property when their demands were not met. Unions have a history of violence which matches the violence of bad businesses. But now, with all of the labor regulations, how can anyone in a union say with a straight face that they will get abused in their job without the union, when 80% of the economy is not unionized?

Are people everywhere being exploited? I don't believe so.

The last problem with unions, is that they keep wages high in the union, which means that labor costs can't come down for the firm. All non-union sources of labor can out compete a union source over the long run. This means the firm can't expand by adding more employees (because their unit cost per employee is higher) plus, their employees may be less productive, because they hide behind "due process" and other such nonsense to protect themselves when they do not perform at a level acceptable to their managers.

Again, unions are great if you are in them. They are a poison pill if you are a business owner (notice, unions almost never buy their own shops and run as co-ops, better to destroy someone else's investment). They are a valuable voting block if you are a politician. And they can be a barrier to entry/wage depressant if you are unemployed or a worker with low productivity (little education, savings or experience).
 
Collective bargaining is a facet of our freedoms of association and of speech.
I agree. Collective bargaining is a part of freedom of association. However, the right to associate, is also the right to disassociate. The firm should have the right to toss any union out they do not want to negotiate with. No one's right to associate can force you to associate with them.

It is a large reason why child labor is limited.
This is a sensitive one. Kids were driving down labor rates in factories, so the unions sought to get the age of employment in as another regulation to protect the jobs of older workers and their higher wages. Real child labor ended shortly after the industrial revolution, when parents no longer had to toil subsistence livings on family farms, but could go into the cities and earn a living which allowed them to support a family and send children to school.

By the time child labor regulation was brought in, child labor rates were already in dramatic decline due to the increase in prosperity and the creation of a middle class.

The UN (iirc) did a study on some of these countries where western unions protest child labor in manufacturing and the companies are shamed into firing the children or closing the plants (so the jobs can come back home to the union plants). The kids sometimes ended up going into child prostitution without the factory jobs. Their labor is necessary in order for their families to survive in impoverished areas. No parent wants to see their child work instead of play, sweat and toil instead of go to school. But where economies are backwards and have no capital, all people can sell is their direct labor. And as people in the west did 200 years ago, the entire family has to get in on the act if they want to eat 2 square meals a day and have a roof over their heads.
 
Right, communism. My bad.
No. Wrong again. It applies to all governments, just to different magnitudes.

I guess my point was you're probably not going to find anyone here that argues against that. For the most part.
Not directly. But they will make arguments that depend on arguing against it indirectly.

I don't know that this necessarily follows. If I build a house on someone else's property, it's not mine, is it? Similarly, I could say if you labor in the context or framework of a society, you are obligated to its rules, which may include giving up some of the fruits of your labor.
You just made my point. Society as an abstract collective, claims title over all property, land and otherwise. You can't opt out, and thus you are obligated to its rules. It is no different than being born black on a plantation in the 18th century. You were born on the plantation, and the plantation owner was the de facto owner of you and the fruits of your labor.

Are you arguing against total socialism, or any socialism? We live in a society that has socialist aspects, and you're not "serving your fellow man," at least, not primarily.
I think that all socialism is a negative. It is based on the premise that people cannot do things voluntarily, and must be coerced with force. Some people go along, because it sounds good, they don't want to make trouble, they would have given some to charity anyway, etc. But the fundamental premise, the ideological rock of socialism, is one that undermines self-ownership and private property. And so yes, in its less extreme forms, it may be somewhat tolerable. But in its extreme forms, it is the worst manner of bondage mankind has ever seen. And socialism rarely loses momentum over time unless there is a revolution or crisis. And I don't like those. I'm really into peace and prosperity. Conflict is not profitable unless you are an arms dealer. And that is a race to the bottom. Selling your customers the means to kill themselves off and thus stop being your customers. New client acquisition is expensive. Which is probably why wars never really end now. It is really unprofitable to the arms dealers if one side loses.

Who is the "you" in this sentence? I am certainly not alone in favoring some parts of society being socialized. I prefer the assurance of having people trained to handle emergencies a phone call away, should I need their services and regardless of whether I can pay them.
So you want stuff you can't pay for, which means someone else should be forced to pay for it. Isn't that the definition of theft?

This reminds me of something about how the same assholes always come out on top... (part of a George Carlin routine maybe?). Sociopathy is a useful character trait for getting into power, unfortunately.
If there is a system where some people get to wield almost absolute power, for a few years at a time and don't have to clean up their own messes, instead passing it on to the next guy who gets elected, what sort of people could we expect to try for, and gain such positions?

The sociopaths.

It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.
 
This has been a lot of fun, but I probably won't post back until next weekend. I really need to crush it this week.
 
You just made my point. Society as an abstract collective, claims title over all property, land and otherwise. You can't opt out, and thus you are obligated to its rules. It is no different than being born black on a plantation in the 18th century. You were born on the plantation, and the plantation owner was the de facto owner of you and the fruits of your labor.

That comparison is rubbish. Slaves were not free to leave the plantation. Slaves were forced to work.

You can leave the country. You can choose when and where you work, if at all. If you don't earn enough, you don't even have to pay anything. Then the fruits of your labor are all yours.

I think that all socialism is a negative. It is based on the premise that people cannot do things voluntarily, and must be coerced with force. Some people go along, because it sounds good, they don't want to make trouble, they would have given some to charity anyway, etc. But the fundamental premise, the ideological rock of socialism, is one that undermines self-ownership and private property. And so yes, in its less extreme forms, it may be somewhat tolerable.
Only "somewhat?" I think a majority of Europeans would laugh at you if you told them their system was just "somewhat tolerable," and that it's somehow better in the US.

But in its extreme forms, it is the worst manner of bondage mankind has ever seen.
Mm, nice fear-inducing statement. Fear shuts down one's ability to think critically, you know. Explains a lot of behaviors, really.

And socialism rarely loses momentum over time unless there is a revolution or crisis.
Could that be because the majority of people think it's a good thing? Acting in their rational self-interest and all that? Of course, there's such thing as too much of a good thing. Finding balance, and keeping it, that's the trick.

So you want stuff you can't pay for, which means someone else should be forced to pay for it. Isn't that the definition of theft?
Sure. And it's in (most of) our best interest. We'd be pretty well fucked if only very wealthy people had military and police protection. You can forget about having property then (unless you're one of the rich guys).


BTW, I found those John Stossel videos pretty weak. You can't really get much nuance in 8-10 minutes. Some stuff missed the point, like health care. Of course the quality is getting better, the issue is that some people can't get it at all. I also got a chuckle out of the graph labeled simply "pollution" and "GDP." I guess they must measure pollution with a pollut-o-meter? I don't think much of anything in the videos supports your arguments at all. Pure fluff.



Let me ask you something:

I can sympathize somewhat with the notion that it's wrong to force people to give up some portion of their labor.

So what if the income tax were replaced by a sales tax, such as the Fair Tax? If it were only applied to non-necessities, one could avoid it entirely.

What about capital gains tax? Capital gains are not necessarily a product of one's own labor.

And what about profiting off of someone else's labor?
 
I agree. Collective bargaining is a part of freedom of association. However, the right to associate, is also the right to disassociate. The firm should have the right to toss any union out they do not want to negotiate with. No one's right to associate can force you to associate with them.

Agreed, completely. I am actually more in favor of professional trade associations where there is a great deal of training done in-house by the union members. Mentoring, brotherhood, etc. Any union should be striving to make their members more valuable to employers. And if a firm decides they don't want to work with the union, the workers who form that union can decide they don't want to provide that firm with their labor.

This is a sensitive one. Kids were driving down labor rates in factories, so the unions sought to get the age of employment in as another regulation to protect the jobs of older workers and their higher wages. Real child labor ended shortly after the industrial revolution, when parents no longer had to toil subsistence livings on family farms, but could go into the cities and earn a living which allowed them to support a family and send children to school.

Not quite the whole truth there. Kids were driving down labor rates everywhere, not just factories. Plus, there was a significant abuse factor inherent in places that used child labor. Kids were literally being worked 16 hours a day in coal mines and beaten/not fed when they didn't bring in enough that day. Kids fell asleep and were mutilated or killed by the machines they worked on.

And child labor did not end after the industrial revolution. There were 2 million child laborers working in industrial conditions in the United States in 1910.

By the time child labor regulation was brought in, child labor rates were already in dramatic decline due to the increase in prosperity and the creation of a middle class.

Wrong. Child labor rates increased until they were severely limited by legislation. The government was nice enough to limit them to 12 hours a day in the early 1800's, then 10 about halfway through that century. Factory owners loved child labor. How else can you recover bobbins that roll under the machines and pay them a few cents a day? And you can always find more kids! They show up every nine months or so.