U.S. Gov Shutdown Reboot: Countdown To The Shutdown, Part Deux

Remember when congress boo'd like a bunch of 4th graders when they had to work on christmas? I don't think they are capable of fixing the country. Revolution or cut the american empire.

Revolution quite a ways away, people still not dissatisfied enough.
 


^ Boehner voted for the Medicare expansion talked about here : Republican Deficit Hypocrisy - Forbes.com

Those pie charts are misleading as far as total dollars collected and spent, but most aren't actually referring to that when they talk about the federal deficit. The social security system still has trillions in reserve and nobody seems to factor that in when talking about debt. Last year was the first year where social security spent more than they took in.

So the fact that half of all government spending goes towards Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security doesn't bother you?
 
So the fact that half of all government spending goes towards Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security doesn't bother you?

Remember - we pay into the Medicare and Social Security pots all our working life. In a perfect world, it would not bother me at all if these were self-sustaining programs.

Medicaid is different - and yet what are you going to do - rip it away from old people in nursing homes that cost $5K+ a month?

The system needs to be fixed - but again, the older people who depend upon Medicare and Social security now (and to some extent Medicaid which is different) paid into the system in good faith. If the system is broke, it is not their fault.
 
And that's what they do - make sure the majority of people aren't quite dissatisfied enough to do anything about it.

Exactly. Some of these benefit programs are in place to keep the poorer people from looting and rioting the rest of us.
 
Some of you mentioned the need for an armed revolution. That's a short-term solution. Unless some of the underlying problems inherent in our monetary system are solved, we'll eventually confront the same crisis we're dealing with today.

It's important for citizens to understand how the state manages money. A lot of attention is directed at the Federal Reserve, which people think prints money. The process is a little more complex.

Here's a summary:

When the state needs cash, it doesn't go to Bernanke and say, "Hey, can you give us a warehouse full of $100 bills?" No. It relies on Treasury for funding. The problem is, Treasury is often broke, especially during periods when tax receipts are low. So, how can Treasury come up with cash for state spending when it doesn't have any in its coffers?

Right. It borrows. It issues bonds and other IOUs. These are bought on the market by everyone from China and Madoff to Joe Blow, who wants to buy his kid a $1,000 note as a stocking stuffer. Here's where things get fishy.

A huge portion of IOUs issued by Treasury and bought on the market are sopped up by the Federal Reserve. How? The Federal Reserve essentially write a check.[1] Of course, it is not drawn on cold, hard cash like your checking account. It's written out of thin air. Meanwhile, the IOUs get put on the Federal Reserve's balance sheet (as "assets" lol).

Okay. Let's stop for a moment, and review:

Treasury issues a bunch of debt to raise funds for spending. The public (China, Madoff, Joe Blow) buys and holds the notes. The Federal Reserve writes checks out of thin air to buy a huge chunk of the outstanding notes, thus adding them to its balance sheet. The state goes to Treasury for cash, which Treasury can now offer to fund deficit spending.

And on and on it goes.

If you're thinking to yourself, "This sounds like a sham," then BINGO. You got it. Unfortunately, most people have no idea what's happening right under their noses. Worse, there are a bunch of terrible consequences that occur due to this shell game:

1. the monetary base increases, and eventually the money supply follows suit
2. interest rates are artificially manipulated
3. producer and consumer prices go haywire (usually moving skyward)
4. wealth is literally stolen from those with dollar-denominated assets

At this point, you might ask, "What's stopping Treasury, the Federal Reserve, and the state from keeping this shell game going on in perpetuity?"

The answer is: not much. There are only two major hurdles (and the second one has proven to be minor):

1. people complaining about the price of consumer goods.
2. the debt ceiling imposed by Congress on itself.[2]

I've probably missed a bunch of important details, and I'm glossing over more than a few for the sake of brevity. But the above captures the essence of the problem. Now, imagine it's 1913. Wouldn't you want a Federal Reserve?! How awesome would that be?

A bloody revolution might help, but only in the short run. To steer this country away from the cliff, the booboise need to be educated about our monetary system.





[1] Things are handled electronically, of course.

[2] Yes, the same ceiling that Congress has voted to raise dozens of times. lol
 
Unfortunately, most people have no idea what's happening right under their noses. Worse, there are a bunch of terrible consequences that occur due to this shell game:
I think people understand what is happening, a lot just choose to ignore it as long as their monies keep coming in that's all they're bothered about.

The long term effects of this stuff, tend not to effect those who encourage it for short term gain.

And those who are affected, are appeased so they don't do anything drastic, as discussed above.
 
- The middle class doesn't have the ability or resources to truly form a strong united group.

But these are just my humble opinions.

Have you been paying attention to the middle east lately? The riots, the overthrowing of governments? Those people have a lot less than we do and they are getting it done.
 
Have you been paying attention to the middle east lately? The riots, the overthrowing of governments? Those people have a lot less than we do and they are getting it done.
The fact they have a lot less is the main reason they are getting it done.
 
Have you been paying attention to the middle east lately? The riots, the overthrowing of governments? Those people have a lot less than we do and they are getting it done.
Differences between the United States and the Middle East:

- Decades of Tyranny
- A government that doesn't spoon feed the poor whatever they want
- Prices so inflated that one's weekly pay hardly covers food

Not to mention, many of the middle class are uneducated and blinded by what truly goes on in their own state much less then Washington.
 
I'm waiting for the riots like the 60's and 70's.
just got to focus the anger to tar and feathering wall street investment bankers, all ceo's making over 5 mill a year and speculators who drive up the cost of commodities.

Are you kidding me bro? You're seriously going to target your anger towards successful businessmen in the private sector?

Why do you have a problem with a CEO making 5 mill a year? And what on earth does that have to do with our government running up trillions of dollars in debt?
 
The fact they have a lot less is the main reason they are getting it done.

This.

Real revolution, the paradigm shifting government toppling power redistribution kind, where the streets of D.C. look like the streets of Tripoli and the National Guard is called out and people start dying; if we got that do you guys think you would end up better off than you are now?
 
So , if we have a revolution , who do we put in power?

I hate to break it to you all , but every single idiot that's making a mess of things was put there by popular vote, not by some magic shenanigans.

Popular vote put Obama in the driver's seat on the road to hell , and there are PLENTY of people who are just fine with that.

There are plenty of people who think it's ok to take from the rich and redistribute it to the poor because they're 'worth it'. In my state of Ohio , quite a few people think that it's ok to keep teachers in their jobs regardless of the quality of their teaching, because it's a 'hard job' and shouldn't be paid based on performance.

Our problem isn't a government problem , it's a people problem. If a revolution happens you essentially need to put a despot into power , which would go against everything America was built on.
 
I hate to break it to you all , but every single idiot that's making a mess of things was put there by popular vote, not by some magic shenanigans.

Popular vote put Obama in the driver's seat on the road to hell , and there are PLENTY of people who are just fine with that.

There are plenty of people who think it's ok to take from the rich and redistribute it to the poor because they're 'worth it'.

hoppe_democracy.jpg




Don't get me started. :)
 
Re: Jake's Financial Tangent - This is an ugly problem, I grant you, but it would never have happened in the first place if the biggest problem in the USA didn't exist: Corporate Lobbying.

Corporations influenced even the decision to break away from the gold standard. They are the root of all evil here and we really wouldn't be solving much at this point without stopping the lobby.

Re: Democracy Bashers - Look at Corporate lobby here too for destroying the people.

If you haven't yet watched Century of the Self then you can't possibly know where the root of all these problems are, and why it is all so purposefully twisted.
 
So the fact that half of all government spending goes towards Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security doesn't bother you?

I never said that. And yes, spending is set to go way up in those areas as the baby boomers get older. I first replied about what was causing "most" of the debt. If some guy keeps buying a new shotgun every week, then he shouldn't just complain about grandma being the reason he is broke.