hmmm...your source(s) pls. it sounds like you're just making up these figures out of thin air. check this out: Intelligence quotient - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Unarmed black shot in the back by white cop
- Thread starter holyearth
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Sure. Here are some:
IQ and Global Inequality: Richard Lynn and Tatu Vanhanen[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Global-Inequality-Richard-Lynn-Vanhanen/dp/1593680244"]IQ and Global Inequality: Richard Lynn and Tatu Vanhanen[/ame]
Review (note the last paragraph):
An IQ of around 70 is considered mentally deficient, i.e, retarded.
Intellectual disability - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Also:
Race, Evolution and Behavior: A Life History Perspective: J. Philippe Rushton[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Race-Evolution-Behavior-History-Perspective/dp/0965683621"]Race, Evolution and Behavior: A Life History Perspective: J. Philippe Rushton: 9780965683623: Amazon.com: Books[/ame]
Bell Curve: Intelligence and Class Structure in American Life[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Bell-Curve-Intelligence-Structure-Paperbacks/dp/0684824299"]Amazon.com: Bell Curve: Intelligence and Class Structure in American Life (A Free Press Paperbacks Book) (9780684824291): Richard J. Herrnstein, Charles Murray: Books[/ame]
i see. Forgive me if I''ve misunderstood you, but you feel it's mostly about Nature (dna, biology) and not Nurture (cultural background and values, family background, social/economical background, eductional background, etc) that makes a person more prone to become a violent criminal? (Or am I putting words in your mouth. If I am, my apologies).
Assuming you (and a few others) on this forum believe in the former, what is the solution? Let's cut to the chase. Assuming you srsly believe it's mostly about Nature (i.e. your born black and that's that) and very little about Nurture (which many believe is the case), then what is the solution to the problem we face?
1. Create a separate region/area for all minorities to live under.
2. Create massive gas chambers in the U.S. to get rid of all blacks and other "inferior" IQ beings from the population.
3. (Fill in the blank)
Srsly. What's your solution to the problem if you believe it's Nature (and not Nurture)?
First, we should halt the immigration of all low IQ individuals regardless of race.
Second, we should make the connection between crime and punishment closer. People with low IQ's tend not to think about the repercussions of their actions. They think from minute to minute. Repercussions that happen weeks or months down the road are not even on their radar. Some police brutality is necessary. Low IQ criminals need immediate punishment. Not lethal, of course. But a couple whacks with a billy club should suffice. This is in addition to incarceration for violent crimes.
Third, we should get rid of all taxpayer-funded welfare regardless of race. Welfare only pays stupid people to create more stupid people.
This is an illuminating account from a public defender on how different groups act in court:
Confessions of a Liberal Public Defender | American Renaissance
i read this account and I see Nurture being the issue. The 'in yo face' sassy cocky or hostile & reactionary attitude toward ppl in general that you often see within poor black communities. It used be considered that that's what it meant to be black and not an "oreo". If you acted in a polite, civilized, and intelligent manner, you got labelled an 'Oreo'. But luckily things are beginning to change. Plenty of educated blacks I know have mentioned how they despise this cultural attitude or mindset that many black folks still hold on to. What they often express to me is that there's quite a bit of diversity now within the black population. Similar to the type of diversity you'd see in rest of the u.s. (ex: white trailer trash, the upward mobile & highly educated, turks, white collar professionals, etc, etc, etc, etc). What this means is that there's alot of blacks these days who don't identify with this 'cocky sassy 'in yo face' reactionary attitude as being 'black' anymore.
Don't know guy but the cop was doing his job. They got guns, they are meant to use them. Criminal was running away. You want the black guy to escape and roam the street where you lil' daughter plays? I wouldn't want that.
Poor cop.
Poor cop.
You see this attitude in a lot of communities, not just black.
For the poor/desperate of all races, sometimes it is just their hanging on to the only thing they have. Their "identity" as a person. They have nothing. No roots, no "things", no "Career", nothing. All they have is themselves and nothing violates that last island of "Self" than the Police/Incarceration. They are fighting just to "Be".
If you do not understand what I am saying it is may be that I am not typing it correctly, or it may be that you have never seen this side of life up close and personal.
I would like to add that the Ego and Pride is seen everywhere. Have you ever run into someone from higher classes in business or life that says "Do you know who I Am?". These people lash out when their identity is violated, but not necessarily with violence. They ruin careers other's businesses, etc. I see it a lot.
Try messing with the big Real Estate investors at a tax sale or in a zoning/land use issue. They will wreck you in ways you never knew possible and they will do it for Sport. Happens all of the time and the victim does not even know what happened. It is really sad.
This is not a racial or class issue, it is an identity issue, in the end a fundamental issue of Pride.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ao8W2tPujeE[/ame]
I found this fascinating.
Alright, I get what you're saying, but quit leaving out important facts and tainting the statistics with useless ones then. The BOJ report is what I would consider rather dry. It's concise and cuts to the point. The numbers are right there and are very simple; murders per capita based on race and age with no extraneous facts. You have X number of murders in X number of population and these are the percentages. They're pretty much irrefutable. No consideration has been given to any other bullshit about education or how much someone's daddy abused them as a child.
The only flaw that I see in the report, which was pointed out earlier, is that Hispanics are lumped in with whites, which mean the per capita numbers for whites should be even lower than they are.
i agree with alot of what you're saying. In fact, I think you've given a pretty convincing analysis/theory of the underlying psychological dynamics behind why this 'in yo face' reactionary demeanor occurs within poor/struggling communities. But we're not really in disagreement at all here. All I'm simply trying to say is that many blacks seem to strongly identify & associate this behavior as "being black". But they don't necessarily understand the underlying reasons why (the psychological mechanisms) that explains that behavior/attitude like you just explained
. They just strongly believe that that's what it means to be black, and it's often expressed strongly and pervasively within their culture, music, etc, etc.
There are 14 or so different classifications of black. Which classification are you referring to with your murder stats? Which specific classification is the most "dangerous"? Are these self identified stats? Do mixed race offenders identify as black or white?
Or is this tiger woods all over again. When he was at the top of his game he was identified as asian the second the scandal hit he was african american.
Heres is a small example of why I bring this up. There are roughly 22,000 to 55,000 people who fall under the Siddi classification who look black. Next to none of which have ever committed a crime on US soil. However under your line of thinking the second a member of the Siddi sets foot on US soil they should be treated with suspicion, detained and generally hassled for no good reason. Thats just one of 14 classifications.
Until you can answer all the above questions with 100% accuracy put your statistics away. Until you break down all races by classification and then examine each classifications propensity for violence your broad overreaching statistics are pointless.
Its very clearly an issue of education and upbringing. Im from Canada and all the sentiments people in this thread have shared about blacks are ones held by the general Canadian population not about blacks but about aboriginals. Although aboriginal persons make up 3.6% of Canada's population, they account for more than 20% of Canada's prison population. The prevalence of aboriginal persons incarcerated in Canada is thus 3x the number per capita of incarcerated African-Americans in the United States of America. Do I treat aboriginal people any differently when I encounter them? No definitely not! For starters why would I when I would never have an interaction with a truly dangerous member of their race given my class? A lot of you act like street violence in the bowels of Chicago justifies racism when it comes to that nice black family who bought a vacation house next door to you in the Hamptons. If you are encountering that many people of an uneducated lower class (regardless of race) on a daily basis maybe you should work on your own social and financial standing. If you don't then great! You've made it to the promised land. Feel free to relax and embrace that black gentleman you met at the boutique bar with the $27 martinis. He's made it to the promised land as well.
The parallels between the lack of education in the Canadian Aboriginal community and the lack of education in sections of the African American community in the US are staggering. Due to the least educated portion of society up here not being black I'm free to zip around in my sports car without ever worrying about being pulled over, profiled or harassed. Would I ever take a drive down to the states where I would be pulled over, profiled and harassed instantly? Hell no.
Chicken or egg always with these things.
Maybe if they were able to set aside primitive notions of 'respect' and 'street cred' then they'd be able to ignore the calls to be cool and instead learn a skill which could lift them up.
What we do know is that intelligence and future time orientation are strong correlated. Basically, if you're stupid, then you can't think or plan ahead more than a day or two. Where as if you're smart, you can plan 5-10-20 years ahead.
Future time orientation. It's what has made civilization at all possible.
There are lies, damn lies and statistics.
It would be more interesting to see the crime rates based on socio-economics and race together rather than race alone then the picture would be clearer (slightly).
And with IQ and race, you need to considered that the IQ test was designed to test intelligence within the limitations of the definition of intelligence within a particular society. With little to no formal education you cannot expect to get a good score in a standardised IQ test. And if its not standardised then comparing two numbers of non-standardised tests is irrelevant.
There are so many factors that are involved that a sweeping statistic does not do it justice at all.
It would be more interesting to see the crime rates based on socio-economics and race together rather than race alone then the picture would be clearer (slightly).
And with IQ and race, you need to considered that the IQ test was designed to test intelligence within the limitations of the definition of intelligence within a particular society. With little to no formal education you cannot expect to get a good score in a standardised IQ test. And if its not standardised then comparing two numbers of non-standardised tests is irrelevant.
There are so many factors that are involved that a sweeping statistic does not do it justice at all.
I didn't taint anything, almost all statistics are tainted. It's true to say that more cops are killed by whites every year than blacks. Expected perhaps, since whites are the majority.
In the same way, the general statistics on crime by race are tainted by a sort of selection bias. There's a much stronger correlation of crime to poverty than any correlation to any race.
I'm going to bet that there are far more poor dumb uneducated white folk from dysfunctional families in the US than there are poor dumb uneducated black folk from dysfunctional families in the US, in similar ratios to the overall population of whites to blacks in the US. If I'm right, then we're back to a level playing field and the excuse of it being an issue of education, upbringing and poverty is moot.
You may be right, but at the same time that would be a more telling assessment of the situation rather than just the white vs black statistic which you cannot draw a direct conclusion from.
No there isn't.
Look at the violent crime rates in the poorest areas of the US (which are primarily rural and often predominantly white) and compare it to the usual suspects - Detroit, Baltimore, Southside Chicago, East St. Louis, Newark, Flint, etc.
The numbers aren't even close. There are large parts of the country that are rural and generationally impoverished and uneducated and yet the violent crime rates are a fraction of what we see in the above mentioned cities. It's way too simplistic to try and blame violence on poverty.
Citing outliers like Appalachia certainly gives different statistics, but there's a unique culture thing there that's not common across all white, or all white/rural/poor demographics.
A counterexample that does show the correlation: http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/hpnvv0812.pdf
"Poor urban blacks (51.3 per 1,000) had rates of violence similar to poor urban whites (56.4 per 1,000)"
I don't think either poverty level or race is close enough to imply 100% causation. There are likely a number of cultural, economic, geographic, etc, factors at play. Enough so that there isn't any consensus among researchers that do this for a living.
The massive amount of drugs changing hands in urban neighborhoods may have something to do with it