Try to get an engineer job in a decent company without a related degree. Either you have no clue or the people who run the job market have no clue.
University of Florida eliminates computer science due to budget cuts
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Try to get an engineer job in a decent company without a related degree. Either you have no clue or the people who run the job market have no clue.
I bet I could walk into 10 companies (that are hiring), and walk out with at least 7 job offers for an IT position. No issues there, and I don't even have a high-school diploma.
But no, I've hired several CS grads back in my day, and it was just for standard Perl development on LINUX servers. Very standard stuff, but each of them had to teach themselves from scratch over the first month of employment, because their degree didn't help them. 2 - 3 months into the job, I'd always ask if uni helped them at all with the job, and they'd just laugh while shaking their heads no.
Although I think this is retarded, I would probably never hire an undergrad with just a CS degree. Having been through some CS, it does nothing to prepare you to be useful in any way unless you decide to do engineering.
The media would never overhype/underresearch a story.
Blog generates buzz on UF cuts, wrongly links to athletics | The Chalkboard
Blog generates buzz on UF cuts, wrongly links to athletics | The Chalkboard
I bet I could walk into 10 companies (that are hiring), and walk out with at least 7 job offers for an IT position. No issues there, and I don't even have a high-school diploma.
But no, I've hired several CS grads back in my day, and it was just for standard Perl development on LINUX servers. Very standard stuff, but each of them had to teach themselves from scratch over the first month of employment, because their degree didn't help them. 2 - 3 months into the job, I'd always ask if uni helped them at all with the job, and they'd just laugh while shaking their heads no.
I am speaking about reputed companies. Not fake or kinda fake companies run by an Internet Marketeers or small scale business people.
We all prefer to hire guys who have no proper degrees as it gives a better performance/cost factor but, we would start giving priority to people with proper degrees if we had a big scale real world business.
Most of the job positions in companies like Google, Microsoft, IBM,etc require a degree as a minimum requirement, it explains everything. Why do they prefer people with college degrees? Because it works for them.
Which is why you need at least an arts degree to work at my cafe. I don't hire uneducated baristia's.
On that note when in conversation with one of them I pointed out that there degree enabled them to work for a college dropout. Hope it was worth it cause they could have started making min wage right out of high school instead of wasting 50 plus k and 4-6 years of there working life.. haha
I am confused...
Does everyone in the US go to college and then goes on to study something?
You don't have apprenticeships?
Instead of college, I went through an apprenticeship for 4 years and finished with everything I need to know + job experience... At 21.
That's were Tim Tebow went. He was homeschooled K-12, but played public school sports, so maybe University of Florida's new plan is just to be for sports.
There's no free market when a government takes billions and decides how to spend it on education, sports, etc.
There's no free market when a government takes billions and decides how to spend it on education, sports, etc.
Yeah.. They do, for jobs like plumbing, electrical work, welding?, striptease?, hooking, auto mechanic maybe,
I bet I could walk into 10 companies (that are hiring), and walk out with at least 7 job offers for an IT position. No issues there, and I don't even have a high-school diploma.
But no, I've hired several CS grads back in my day, and it was just for standard Perl development on LINUX servers. Very standard stuff, but each of them had to teach themselves from scratch over the first month of employment, because their degree didn't help them. 2 - 3 months into the job, I'd always ask if uni helped them at all with the job, and they'd just laugh while shaking their heads no.
You must have been dealing with some incredibly stupid students coming from terrible CS programs.
I can take a below average kid fresh out of Carnegie Mellon with a compsci degree and he'll run circles around the best programmers on this board.
Why? Because while in college they had to write an operating system from scratch, a self learning chatbot that can carry a 5 minute conversation, a fully functional language interpreter, compiler, a computer virus, a fully functional regex parser using only recursive calls, a fully functional chess game with AI that could beat the best human chess players in the world, and a billion other just as difficult but not as cool sounding stuff. And most of these projects had to be done in a period of 2 weeks on top of the 4 other classes that were being taken at the same time.
There's a reason college educated compsci kids are getting 6 figure salaries right out of college.
Is any of that stuff you posted above true or is it just sensationalism mixed with hyberbole? If not, continue.
My bro is attending Standford and he is shitting bricks. What Cardine is saying is exactly what he tells me. His assignments are start-ups in themselves, was what he said. And then there are the Caltechs, the MITs, and even the IITs in India...
How the hell do you think the Facebooks and Googles of the world scales. With freelancers from odesk? Oh, BTW, google was "a project".
Facebook had to hire the best hackers from the best schools to scale their operation.
Not that those Kids couldn't have learnt by themselves, but good schools are a great way of filtering the good from the also rans..
I don't know where you were in the 90's but there was more than 2 or 3 languages used.
I've had to do a lot of that stuff, but not on the level like they do at CMU; like my OS would fit on a floppy, and would only do something like UNIX top. My assembler/debugger was pretty cool, but it only has about 12 instructions.
But we didn't really have things like spring break like some of the other majors; if we were not in a class somewhere, we were at the room writing code.
A few exceptions though, there are a couple guys we haven't seen since Skyrim came out.
If it was treated more as a trade than a "science" they could probably turn out a lot more strong programmers who could produce from day one and who would not be saddled with huge student loan debt. You still need a handful of CS majors (with advanced degrees) to architect and solve the really interesting problems.
I agree. But for most of the job opportunities you don't need an advanced degree.
Is there a reason why this is not in place in the USA? Politics?
It seems to work rather well in Switzerland.
It's funny you mention CMU. I have a friend that has multiple degrees from CMU (CompSci being one). I've spent countless hours debugging and refactoring shitty code with him (some wrote by us in a hurry and some by other people). He's extremely intelligent, but CMU didn't magically bless with him that intelligence. It doesn't take a college for someone to learn the proper fundamentals of comp sci, but it does take someone very dedicated to seek out the knowledge on their own. I've had various teachers over the years and some were in a class room setting and some were not. I've learned more from the ones that weren't in a formal class room (on the job, paid tutors, etc). Years ago I bought a book on ASM that was wrote by a guy that taught at a local University. I wasn't enrolled in that University or any University at the time, but I would goto his office and ask him questions from time to time.
I'd argue that in some peoples language of choice they're just as good as a CMU grad. For example I really doubt they'd be that much ahead of me when it comes to PHP. There's some other people on the board where that is true for PHP, Ruby, or Python. There might be able to kick my ass in C++, but that isn't because they've wrote an operating system in ASM. It's because other than the last month I haven't wrote anything in c++ in several years. Give it 5 to 11 more months and they won't be kicking my ass in that either, because I understand how to use a profiler and learn from my mistakes.
In Europe vocational education is generally considered a good thing. They realize that not everyone is cut out for a higher level of education and vo-techs are encouraged. Here in the US people look down on vo-techs to some degree and I'm not really sure why.
i dont like sports at all, tech is way better tan that, the dean of the college might gone mad and making his students as welll