USPS paying people $25/hour to do nothing, unions, etc

[potentialeight]

From: Broke USPS still pays workers millions to do nothing | Staff report | Daily Outrage | San Francisco Examiner

WHAT: The U.S. Postal Service will lose about $9 billion this year due to slumping mail volume, but during the first six months of 2011 it paid idling workers $4.3 million for 170,666 hours of “standby time.”

WHY: Longtime labor agreements with the largest postal unions prohibit the Postal Service from laying off or reassigning workers because of broken equipment or periods of low mail volume.

WHAT’S BEING DONE: The USPS will start tougher tracking and monitoring of standby payments next month. Meanwhile, annual standby costs already plummeted from $30.9 million in the past two years.

Note that $4300000/170666 = $25.20/hour to sit around and do nothing.

Okay so I haven't had much of an opinion on unions so far in my life because I've never had to deal with them directly, but what the hell? Is this a common sort of thing? I can see the idea of union being good to keep people from getting exploited in certain ways to some extent, but this is absolutely stupid. Does this kind of thing happen in unions for companies that try to make a profit? Aka teach me about unions.

 

[poisonsembrace]

Why are you going into bat for USPS? Unions are pretty big in Australia and while they are not perfect, I wouldn't want to see the country without them. We have a good minimum wage, holidays, sick leave and many other entitlements that companies would love to get rid of if not for the unions. The sort of thing most Americans don't have but should.

 

[LotsOfZeros]

I've always believed public sector unions were absolutely worthless. They're basically a veiled way to fleece taxpayers and funnel money to political causes. This proves it.

 

[potentialeight]

Why are you going into bat for USPS? Unions are pretty big in Australia and while they are not perfect, I wouldn't want to see the country without them. We have a good minimum wage, holidays, sick leave and many other entitlements that companies would love to get rid of if not for the unions. The sort of thing most Americans don't have but should.

I can see the idea of union being good to keep people from getting exploited in certain ways

^^^^^

I don't disagree, but I think we can both agree that this doesn't fall under the list of things you've mentioned.

 

[Rusky]

Why are you going into bat for USPS? Unions are pretty big in Australia and while they are not perfect, I wouldn't want to see the country without them. We have a good minimum wage, holidays, sick leave and many other entitlements that companies would love to get rid of if not for the unions. The sort of thing most Americans don't have but should.

So what happens when a company takes a dive on production and sales. Stop pretending like companies have a union to protect them and force the consumers to continue buying product.
Oh wait there's always a government bailout I forgot. I guess thats how they get the consumer to pay for it anyways.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPEYycCRKXo"]South Park- Bailout - YouTube[/ame]

 

[potentialeight]

So what happens when a company takes a dive on production and sales. Stop pretending like companies have a union to protect them and force the consumers to continue buying product.
Oh wait there's always a government bailout I forgot. I guess thats how they get the consumer to pay for it anyways.

South Park- Bailout - YouTube

Dude holy shit I seriously hurt right now from laughing at that. +rep

 

[poisonsembrace]

So what happens when a company takes a dive on production and sales. Stop pretending like companies have a union to protect them and force the consumers to continue buying product.
Oh wait there's always a government bailout I forgot. I guess thats how they get the consumer to pay for it anyways.

Companies don't have a union; the workers do. Unions have nothing to do with bailouts idiot. Maybe it's different in America but in Australia, you join a union so that the company cannot fuck you and if they try, you and everyone else has a voice - attempts to stop the company just walking over the workforce.

American companies already took a dive, took bailout money and then shipped jobs overseas to China. I'm not saying that doesn't happen in Australia but unions have helped to stop that kind of bullshit in the past. Workers have rights but so many people have been sold on the idea that any rights should be limited and reduced where possible with little consideration for workers and the local community.

 

[slayerment]

Why are you going into bat for USPS? Unions are pretty big in Australia and while they are not perfect, I wouldn't want to see the country without them. We have a good minimum wage, holidays, sick leave and many other entitlements that companies would love to get rid of if not for the unions. The sort of thing most Americans don't have but should.

 

[LotsOfZeros]

^^^ This

Workers in unions think they have the 'right' to sit on their lazy fat asses living off of my hard earned money.

I disagree.

 

[potentialeight]

Companies don't have a union; the workers do. Unions have nothing to do with bailouts idiot.

American companies already took a dive, took bailout money and then shipped jobs overseas to China. I'm not saying that doesn't happen in Australia but unions have helped to stop that kind of bullshit in the past. Workers have rights but so many people have been sold on the idea that any rights should be limited and reduced where possible with little consideration for workers and the local community.

As stated in the OP I know little about unions, how they work and what their effects are. However, if unions tend to drive wages and benefits up (and therefore drive profits down), wouldn't that provide more incentive for jobs to be moved to other countries in a lot of situations? If this isn't the case, then where is my misunderstanding?

 

[poisonsembrace]

If the American way is the best way, why is your country in the position it is? When you fuck workers simply for higher profits, everyone suffers. Higher wages + benefits promotes a better economy and standard of living. Instead, American's are more concerned that their neighbour is getting ahead of them while ignoring the fact corporate America is the one who really fucked them and has left them behind in the dust long ago. You all talk like you are the corporate fat cats trying to protect your profits.. bit brainwashed I suspect.

 

[emperoryogi]

The Canadian government's postal workers just went on strike a few months ago because they wanted a pension with full-benefits, an increase in their salary, etc.

The fact that somebody can get paid $30/hour to deliver pieces of paper to houses is absurd. I agree that unions for government positions like this are completely stupid.

 

[poisonsembrace]

Yes.. how absurd that someone might want to be paid more. The American $ is worth less and less but hey, lets get rid of workers rights, entitlements, cut their wage all while inflation increases the cost of living.. but hey, the company is making more profits than ever before.. shame you're not actually sharing in that profit but pretend that you are. Trust Americans to get upset their neighbours are getting $30 an hour while ignoring the fact your government gave your tax dollars to American companies that then use that money to setup shop offshore, shitcan American jobs and hire Chinese. All with YOUR money.

 

[Rage9]

I'm just saying they are going to lose $9 Billion, but pay only $4.3 Million (0.0478% of their losses) in standby time, probably hardly the big issue there. The postal system is HUGE. Although it is quite a lose none the less. The US postal system hasn't turned a "profit" for the last few years (I think since 2006) because in 2006 Congress passed the Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act. This has forced the US postal service to prefund it's retiree health care benefits for the next 50 years, no other government agency is required to do this. In the first 10 years alone they are exstimated to fund $75 Billion. So now all we are going to do is bail them out with taxpayer money. Blame congress, USPS actually turned a profit of about $9 Billion between 2003 and 2006 from what I can gather.

 

[potentialeight]

I'm just saying they are going to lose $9 Billion, but pay only $4.3 Million (0.0478% of their losses) in standby time, probably hardly the big issue there. The postal system is HUGE. Although it is quite a lose none the less. The US postal system hasn't turned a "profit" for the last few years (I think since 2006) because in 2006 Congress passed the Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act. This has forced the US postal service to prefund it's retiree health care benefits for the next 50 years, no other government agency is required to do this. So now all we are going to do is bail them out with taxpayer money. Blame congress.

I totally agree that this standby time issue isn't going to make or break the USPS, but the OP wasn't really so much about the USPS situation as it was about unions and me not knowing so much about them.

Yes.. how absurd that someone might want to be paid more.

It's fine to want to be paid more; that much is natural. You could just as easily say something like, "How absurd that an employer might want to pay out less." Getting $25/hour to do nothing, however, is a joke.

 

[poisonsembrace]

It's fine to want to be paid more; that much is natural. You could just as easily say something like, "How absurd that an employer might want to pay out less." Getting $25/hour to do nothing, however, is a joke.

Unless you're the one paying the $25 an hour, I don't understand your position. Why do you care if someone is being paid that much? Unions in Australia (and America) brought about better, safer working conditions, increase wages which then promotes a higher standard of living. The more money people have, the more they can spend so it promotes a strong economy.

These massive companies would love to have American's and Australian's working in the same shit conditions as they do in China. They work in unsafe conditions for long hours for shit money at a massive cost to their health. You know why this shit happens there? Because they can't form a union so it's each individual against the company and you cannot bargain for a better workplace in that scenario.

Anti-union talk is just bullshit propaganda being spread by the big companies because they would love to have American's and Australian's working in the exact same shit conditions for shit money as they do in other places across the globe.

People need to stand strong next to their fellow worker and not the company who will fuck you whenever possible. Unions are still massive in Australia but not so much American which is a real shame. Your country is being raped by these companies, not by the guy being paid $25 an hour.

 

[greenleaves]

lol


$4,000,000 goes to low wage workers on stand by due to low volume in the ENTIRE mailing system of the US and there is outrage

$x,000,000,000,000 Gets given to banks; it is necessary.

Red herring - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Blame the people who work for $50k a year (and spend it). Greedy bastards. But the CEOs that bankrupted companies and took billions (and they stashed it away in switzerland, further hurting the economy), those 'earned their money'. God damn some of you people are stupid.

 

[Rage9]

I totally agree that this standby time issue isn't going to make or break the USPS, but the OP wasn't really so much about the USPS situation as it was about unions and me not knowing so much about them.

I understand I'm just trying to shed some light on the situation. It's easy to blame the unions, and if it wasn't for congress USPS would probably be turning a profit or be much much closer to it. In that case we wouldn't even be talking about this. I myself am anti-union but this does not have as much to do about unions (as far as I can tell) as some people want to make it out to be.

 

[BlueYonder]

I've always believed public sector unions were absolutely worthless. They're basically a veiled way to fleece taxpayers and funnel money to political causes. This proves it.

I'm a progressive and agree 100%. Public sector unions are bleeding the taxpayers where I live, and even FDR was against them.

 

[Rusky]

lol


$4,000,000 goes to low wage workers on stand by due to low volume in the ENTIRE mailing system of the US and there is outrage

$x,000,000,000,000 Gets given to banks; it is necessary.

Red herring - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Blame the people who work for $50k a year (and spend it). Greedy bastards. But the CEOs that bankrupted companies and took billions (and they stashed it away in switzerland, further hurting the economy), those 'earned their money'. God damn people are stupid.

It wasnt just the banks that fucked up the mortgage system. It was the people buying up shit they couldn't afford and small time real estate speculators. We should stop bailing out period.

Another example of tax payers and a failing company with union problems. (U.S. loses $1.3 billion in exiting Chrysler)
http://money.cnn.com/2011/07/21/autos/chrysler_government_exit/index.htm