What features for web design project management system?

[clockwork84]

Nope, 0 months of coding experience (excluding HTML). I thought it might help being chucked in at the deep end, to learn quickly. Thinking about it, however, it may be better to hire someone. And coding will help me in the future with my marketing.

So, how much time do you guys reckon I could get a Filipino to do it in? (or possibly an Indian, but they're a bit expensive in comparison)

I'm not quite sure why you want to waste your time and money on this, to be perfectly honest. Let's take a look at the bigger picture:

You are trying to reinvent the wheel with respect to project management back-ends. There are decent alternatives out there that are reasonably priced. Judging from your other threads, I'm assuming you don't have massive capital to invest and completely blow the competition out of the water. If you want to outsource it to some third-world country for a few hundred/thousand, do you really see yourself getting an amazing platform that is going to be better than Basecamp, SugarCRM, etc? Why not just invest this time and money on acquiring new clients? You're essentially a web design middle-man, so you aren't actively coding or designing, which indicates to me that you have time to manage your clients in a way that will be better and more personalized than some shitty back-end.

Speaking of clients, you seem to think that having some kind of custom management tool will be a major selling point; i.e., you are somehow more "prestigious" because of this. You also are going after mid-range clients. Who are these people? Small brick and mortar businesses? Presumably, these clients know close to zilch about web development or the Internet, and they are just looking for basic sites. Is it realistic to assume that those potential clients give a shit about some custom back-end platform? They are going to be much more impressed with personal attention to detail and having a contact - you - guiding them through the project. If anything, pawning them off to your automated system managed by a VA in a developing country is going to hurt you.

It seems like you want to build this outsourced "set it and forget it" empire, but does web design as an industry really lend itself to mentality?

 

[jgrim]

I didn't read the whole thread, bookmarked it for later. But don't waste your time building your own system. Build off an open source one that has most of what you want already.

Try this out out for size: Collabtive - Open Source collaboration looks like it's built off of codeigniter but I'm not 100%.

I had plans of improving it in my spare time, just been to busy to find the free time.

 

[l3msip]

Jesus christ i suppose i have to admire you unbridled optimism but you have no clue how this business works.

I suggest you go to theme forrest and install a nice looking wordpress theme on your site, then see how you go with these 1st few customers you have got.

Once you realize just how easy it is the scale a loss and massive headache quickly, you might have some more usefull questions to ask.

To start you off:

1. None of your clients will give a flying fuck about your backend (most will think you are refering to your arsehole) - no matter how great it is they will still phone you 99% of the time.

1b. Code your own CRM with ZERO coding experience? Try coding a site that adds a name , date and email address to a database and can retrieve the data in a sortable manner. Do this by 2011 and ill buy your 1st pint new years eve (or bottle of white lightning if they wont let you in the pub)

2. Foreign workers are not complete idiots, sure they are cheaper, but no where near as cheap as you think for any with decent codeing/designing skills and a grasp of English.

3. English designers, foreign managers? WTF? Your got it back to front?

 

[butcher]

Fail for not listening to advice. Concentrate on getting a good portfolio and selling your services. Most clients don't give a shit about how the backend looks. You will never automate this. Try handling a few clients first.

 

[dreamache]

troll thread? that's how far out there this is. jesus.

 

[dchuk]

another piece of advice of advice: never outsource anything you can't do yourself. There's a difference between outsourcing and contracting. Outsourcing is when you front that you are doing the work but someone else actually is. Contracting is generally transparent.

Also, anyone with experience doing client work will tell you that 1 client with a $1000 profit is way way way WAY better than 10 with $100 profit each.

 

[emp]

I actually do web sites for small biz customers as well as SEO consulting for established (bigger) sites.

No one. I repeat: No one cares about the backend you described.

What they are looking for is quality work and someone who holds their hand.
Clear communication, email from time to time and a pleasant face to face time is what buyers are looking for.

Learning another CRM or discussing things with a designer on a platform? No interest.
None. Nada, zilch.

::emp::

 

[-joe-]

I'm not quite sure why you want to waste your time and money on this, to be perfectly honest. Let's take a look at the bigger picture:

You are trying to reinvent the wheel with respect to project management back-ends. There are decent alternatives out there that are reasonably priced. Judging from your other threads, I'm assuming you don't have massive capital to invest and completely blow the competition out of the water. If you want to outsource it to some third-world country for a few hundred/thousand, do you really see yourself getting an amazing platform that is going to be better than Basecamp, SugarCRM, etc? Why not just invest this time and money on acquiring new clients? You're essentially a web design middle-man, so you aren't actively coding or designing, which indicates to me that you have time to manage your clients in a way that will be better and more personalized than some shitty back-end. I don't have massive capital to invest, no, but I do have a little (couple of thousand shortly) Main reason, tbh, is that firstly, I don't wanna be paying a 3 figure sum every month to a CRM company, and without one, I don't think I could handle the order volume I'm planning. Also, I haven't seen one that offers the tiering I'm looking for.

I have time to manage my clients at the moment, but in the future, I won't.

Speaking of clients, you seem to think that having some kind of custom management tool will be a major selling point; i.e., you are somehow more "prestigious" because of this. You also are going after mid-range clients. Who are these people? Small brick and mortar businesses? Presumably, these clients know close to zilch about web development or the Internet, and they are just looking for basic sites. Is it realistic to assume that those potential clients give a shit about some custom back-end platform? They are going to be much more impressed with personal attention to detail and having a contact - you - guiding them through the project. If anything, pawning them off to your automated system managed by a VA in a developing country is going to hurt you. Yep, they are small B&M businesses. However, for the moment, they will mostly be obtained through forums, and as such have a reasonable grasp of the internet (with a lot of think-they-know-it-alls). Yeah, good point, although their main point of contact will be the designer, who is native English, so that shouldn't be too much of an issue.

It seems like you want to build this outsourced "set it and forget it" empire, but does web design as an industry really lend itself to mentality?

That's my point. It's not really been done, and I want to make it happen. I want to be able to let the orders come piling in, and still be able to handle them.

Thanks for the advice

I didn't read the whole thread, bookmarked it for later. But don't waste your time building your own system. Build off an open source one that has most of what you want already.

Try this out out for size: Collabtive - Open Source collaboration looks like it's built off of codeigniter but I'm not 100%.

I had plans of improving it in my spare time, just been to busy to find the free time.

Hmm, I'll have a look at that, thanks very much!

Jesus christ i suppose i have to admire you unbridled optimism but you have no clue how this business works.
Haha, thanks
I suggest you go to theme forrest and install a nice looking wordpress theme on your site, then see how you go with these 1st few customers you have got.
I've already got a few customers, which are going fairly well. It's just I want to scale up.
Once you realize just how easy it is the scale a loss and massive headache quickly, you might have some more usefull questions to ask.

To start you off:

1. None of your clients will give a flying fuck about your backend (most will think you are refering to your arsehole) - no matter how great it is they will still phone you 99% of the time.
Fair point. I'll try and avoid them doing that though, just saying that I can't deal with their queries related to that over the phone, and that they'll have to message the designer. (while staying as customer-friendly as possible)
1b. Code your own CRM with ZERO coding experience? Try coding a site that adds a name , date and email address to a database and can retrieve the data in a sortable manner. Do this by 2011 and ill buy your 1st pint new years eve (or bottle of white lightning if they wont let you in the pub)
Yeah, I've since realised that's not the smartest idea. And ok, I'll give that a go I might code the SEO report generator, that might be a bit easier (especially since there are lots of snippets in the WF PHP chest)
2. Foreign workers are not complete idiots, sure they are cheaper, but no where near as cheap as you think for any with decent codeing/designing skills and a grasp of English.
Yeah, I know they're not cheap, but they're a lot less expensive than an English coder.
3. English designers, foreign managers? WTF? Your got it back to front?

Haha, the designers will be the ones who deal mostly with after-sales support, the managers will just be there to ensure they're working properly, and to bug them if they're overdue on a project. Also to read any client complaints etc.

Thanks

Fail for not listening to advice. Concentrate on getting a good portfolio and selling your services. Most clients don't give a shit about how the backend looks. You will never automate this. Try handling a few clients first.

I'm already handling a few clients thanks, which is going well

troll thread? that's how far out there this is. jesus.

Haha, nope

another piece of advice of advice: never outsource anything you can't do yourself. There's a difference between outsourcing and contracting. Outsourcing is when you front that you are doing the work but someone else actually is. Contracting is generally transparent. Yeah, sorry, misuse of terms. I'm contracting, I'm upfront with the fact I have people under me doing the actual designs.

Also, anyone with experience doing client work will tell you that 1 client with a $1000 profit is way way way WAY better than 10 with $100 profit each.

Oh, definitely if it was just one. It's just the difficulty of getting one whale I think is higher than the difficulty of getting 15 small biz's.

Thanks

I actually do web sites for small biz customers as well as SEO consulting for established (bigger) sites.

No one. I repeat: No one cares about the backend you described.

What they are looking for is quality work and someone who holds their hand.
Clear communication, email from time to time and a pleasant face to face time is what buyers are looking for.
Kk, fair enough. I'm trying to make it as hand-holding as possible, to keep them happy.
Learning another CRM or discussing things with a designer on a platform? No interest.
None. Nada, zilch.

::emp::

KK, thanks

 

[-joe-]

Btw, features/layout I've come up with so far :

Client:

• Calendar, for keeping track of due dates/milestones.
• Ticketing, for messaging designers/managers/me.
• Live chat, for setting appointments with designers, and talking to designers live.
• Reporting, shows current progress, email reporting can be set up
• History, shows order history, ticket history, etc.
• Referrals, allows refer-a-friend, in exchange for a gift card or something.
• Complain, allows complaints, goes direct to me.
• Upload information, allows uploading of diagrams, images etc to show to designer.

Designer:

• Calendar, allows due dates to be set, and dates to be crossed off as holidays, in which they'll get no work.
• Project tracking, shows current projects along with a brief description, can be expanded for full details including history of project.
• Contact, allows messaging of client, manager, and me.
• Live chat, allows appointments to be set with client or manager, and allows talking to them live.
• Submit completed work, allows submission of completed work, which will then be double-confirmed by the manager, then me, and will then go onto the client for any modifications. If there are none, it will be then sent onto a coder. (who will have a pretty similar interface to the designers).
• History, allows viewing of chat history and order history.

Manager:

• Calendar, will show overdue projects, and projects near completion date.
• Customer Service, allows responding to customers pre-sales (although I may go with somewhere like liveperson for this).
• Track projects, will track all projects under designers under them.
• Chat history, will show chat history of designers.
• Review work, allows reviewing of completed work before it gets forwarded to me.
• Tickets, allows viewing, responding to, and opening tickets, with clients, designers, and me.
• Live chat, allows appointments to be set, and live talking to designers, clients and me.
• Unresponded tickets, view tickets of designers that haven't been responded to.
• Staff list, view designers under them, number of sales, percentage overdue etc. Hand out bonuses to best performing.

Admin:

• Calendar, shows overdue projects, further individual details available if wanted.
• Tickets, view tickets, open new ones, respond.
• Live chat, set appointments, talk to people through the interface.
• $ Reporting, shows ROI, gross revenue, profit.
• History, shows chat history, ticket history, order history.
• Referrals, view weekly number of referrals, revenue generated from them.
• Project delivery confirmation, confirm projects are ok before sent to coder/client.
• Survey results, shows results of customer satisfaction survey, which is handed out with the finished design.
• Staff list, shows list of staff, managers shows designers under them, designers shows clients under them, revenue per staff member.
• Reporting, shows full details of current progress on individual jobs.

I've also organised it on paper so that each tier has only 4 pages in their interface, plus a settings window (excluding the managers, who will have 5 pages) each of which will house some of these features.

So, ...how long do you guys reckon a Filipino would take to code that... :tongue2: (serious)

 

[Garrett]

wow you are an idiot

people here re giving you great advice, and you just dont listen

 

[clockwork84]

So, ...how long do you guys reckon a Filipino would take to code that... :tongue2: (serious)

 

[clockwork84]

Actually, fuck these guys telling you it's a bad idea. This will definitely work if you believe in yourself. The features you have listed look amazing; they are exactly what every one of your clients will want and/or need. All you must do now is find a decent programmer, give him all the specifics, and Paypal some funds. Don't pay less than a few thousand for this work, or it'll be complete shit. Also, make sure you get a really great (read: $$$) designer to do the layout, so that your clients will be so fucking blown away that they'll shit more money into your lap. In a few months, when you have the final product, come back and let us know if the project was an asset to your business or not.

 

[-joe-]

wow you are an idiot

people here re giving you great advice, and you just dont listen

Meh. Sometimes you've just got to run with a crazy idea, because if it works, it'll make you a lot of money. It's a crazy idea, sure, but the risk:reward is something I'm willing to go for.

Haha

Actually, fuck these guys telling you it's a bad idea. This will definitely work if you believe in yourself. The features you have listed look amazing; they are exactly what every one of your clients will want and/or need. All you must do now is find a decent programmer, give him all the specifics, and Paypal some funds. Don't pay less than a few thousand for this work, or it'll be complete shit. Also, make sure you get a really great (read: $$$) designer to do the layout, so that your clients will be so fucking blown away that they'll shit more money into your lap. In a few months, when you have the final product, come back and let us know if the project was an asset to your business or not.

Thanks

Have you got any suggestions for any additional features btw?

Will do. I can afford a couple of thousand, so I'm up for it. And yep, I'll definitely get my best designer to do the layout.

And will do. I might ask a few people if they wanna beta test when it's done.

Cheers

 

[dchuk]

the amount of hours and money you'll spend building such a system could be spent making a lot of money/contacts/building a client roster. There is a ton of advice in this thread, be smart about your decision

 

[Garrett]

you know, I just wrote out a ton of advice. but I thought twice and just deleted it.

 

[barman]

good web design can't be automated, especially for high paying clients. each job is a custom one.

that said, the one thing i would have loved to have automated is a quotation / proposal system. meet with the client, figure out what they want, and then have it spit out a 20 page proposal customized to their needs.

 

[-joe-]

the amount of hours and money you'll spend building such a system could be spent making a lot of money/contacts/building a client roster. There is a ton of advice in this thread, be smart about your decision

Good point, although I'm still definitely extremely tempted.The recurring income from the licensing could be nice as well.

good web design can't be automated, especially for high paying clients. each job is a custom one.

that said, the one thing i would have loved to have automated is a quotation / proposal system. meet with the client, figure out what they want, and then have it spit out a 20 page proposal customized to their needs.

Yeah, these are mid-range clients. It won't be totally automated, there'll still be some human stuff, it's just it'll be done by the people under me, instead of me doing it.

And yeah, that'd be good, although that may be a bit overly complicated for the moment. (in the future though?)

 

[500WA]

you know, I just wrote out a ton of advice. but I thought twice and just deleted it.

I don't blame you. The advice you and everyone else has already provided has been top notch. If the OP would take off his blinders, he would see he's received a step-by-step playbook to be successful.

 

[-joe-]

I don't blame you. The advice you and everyone else has already provided has been top notch. If the OP would take off his blinders, he would see he's received a step-by-step playbook to be successful.

Feel free to have your opinion, but I'll stick with mine.


P.S. Just got off the phone with someone, after I posted a job on freelancer.com. They're English-based, doing it all themselves, good reviews, they estimate finishing in two weeks. Plus a pretty good price.

 

[jsphfcll]

Actually, fuck these guys telling you it's a bad idea. This will definitely work if you believe in yourself. The features you have listed look amazing; they are exactly what every one of your clients will want and/or need. All you must do now is find a decent programmer, give him all the specifics, and Paypal some funds. Don't pay less than a few thousand for this work, or it'll be complete shit. Also, make sure you get a really great (read: $$$) designer to do the layout, so that your clients will be so fucking blown away that they'll shit more money into your lap. In a few months, when you have the final product, come back and let us know if the project was an asset to your business or not.

you know this was sarcasm right?

ITT OP is greatest troll ever... or...

ITT Ask for advice... get advice... refute advice