Would a "europeanized" America be a good or bad thing?

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it's funny when people talk about Europe like it's one country.

Denmark, Sweden and Finland for example are socialist countries with high GDP, high standards of living, highly educated populaces and little unemployment. It will be a long time before America evolves into a country like one of those.
 


Put it another way, has there EVER been a country that TAXED its way into prosperity and a higher standard of living?

Your question lacks substance. Recorded history that is relevant to the question is not able to provide an answer to a question like this; there is a lack of data.

Counterquestion - has ANY government that has deregulated and lowered taxes been able to create STABLE and FAIR living standards for ALL its citizens, along with a HEALTHY, PROSPERING, and LONG LIVING (read: not collapsing) economy?
 
We have the best health care in the world and it's free to poor people. Illegal's use this free system all the time. In my state anyone making under 30k recieves free dental and health.

Don't believe everything you hear from Democrats. They use health care as a way to get votes.

Europe and other countries that provide socialized health care are having all kinds of problems that we don't have to worry about.

When did socializem become the IN thing?
 
it's funny when people talk about Europe like it's one country.

Denmark, Sweden and Finland for example are socialist countries with high GDP, high standards of living, highly educated populaces and little unemployment. It will be a long time before America evolves into a country like one of those.

Yet if they were attacked by ANYONE! the US would have to come in and save their country and way of life. I am not sure I would be happy knowing that my freedom was dependent on another countries willingness to bail me out if things got bad.

The cold hard facts are that there is and will be in the future countries that hate democracy and those countries that you mentioned are only a minor speed bumb in their ambitions.

Look at WW2..what role did the mentioned nations play in pushing back the Nazi tide?
 
I would say it would a good thing for average Joe. Higher taxes mean better living for the poor. That's the way most of the european countries work. Rich pay A LOT of taxes to support the poor and boy do they pay taxes. Did you know that for example in Finland if you earn $1 million in a year as your salary, you'll pay about 49% to the goverment. But rarely anybody wants to take $1 million as a salary, there are ways to channel it thru small companies to avoid income taxation.

"It's bad for rich people" point doesn't hold water anymore. It really doesn't matter nowadays where you live tax-wise. If you just know what you are doing, you can always live in your "motherland" and your offshore company gets rich in a country where taxes don't exist. Then your poor existence in your "motherland" gets much more comfortable when this unknown offshore company buys a house or a car and gives you the right to use it. Of course when you have $2 mil. house and your yearly earnings are $0 officially, you will raise some red flags and get IRS up your ass. But as long as you consult financial lawyers and do everything by the law.. sorry, I mean loopholes, you're in the clear.

Btw, this is not for pussies and it takes some capital to be sure you have done everything by the law in your own country. As long as the money stays offshore, you are ok, but when it's time to buy something big -> consult lawyer how to do it.
 
First of all Rich People and Corporation don't pay taxes. They transfer the cost to consumers (that would really help the average Joe). Better yet they'll go to China or Mexico (I would).
My state just lost the Freightliner Trucks production plant and over two thousand jobs to Mexico, because of our dumb ass governor (who happens to be far left and prays to Al Gore)

I believe in the trust but verify way of life.
Look at what the government did to our schools systems, how about our social security system, lets not even talk about Fannie and Freddie. Would you really trust them with your health care.

Fool me once, Shame on You.
 
Yet if they were attacked by ANYONE! the US would have to come in and save their country and way of life. I am not sure I would be happy knowing that my freedom was dependent on another countries willingness to bail me out if things got bad.

The cold hard facts are that there is and will be in the future countries that hate democracy and those countries that you mentioned are only a minor speed bumb in their ambitions.

Look at WW2..what role did the mentioned nations play in pushing back the Nazi tide?

Dude... You gotta stop reiterating political keynotes like a monkey and start using your own brain. That Fox News moderator isn't the bible, and neither are the marketing driven bombastic speeches by your favorite canditate.

Do you know what a keynote is? It's a phrase that has been formulated by a marketing consultant, aimed at dropping a mix of opinion forming, usually emotionally loaded keywords that can have various goals, depending on the target.

Business people and politicians alike employ teams of skilled marketing professionals, along with the occasional psychologist, to write these keynotes for them. No CEO of any given global player takes a stand without having memorized a set of keynotes. No politician on the planet will step on a stage without having at least one keynote about any given topic.

Summary:
Keynotes are carefully formulated to get the point across in an emotional, colorful way that hits the target, sticks, and creates a certain mindset. And is likely to be repeated.

Call it marketing, if you like.

When you say things like "there are future countries that hate democracy", you repeat what was thrown at you in hopes that your uneducated mind would not ask the obvious question, but instead repeat this keynote in as many idiotic forum threads as possible.

Same applies for "domestic terrorist", for example. That sounds threatening, doesn't it? Guess why that keynote is being dropped so often by McCain and Palin when they hold a speech for the people of Mobile, Alabama and popeye.

Guess who repeats these phrases out of the box without asking the obvious question - actually, two questions:

1) WHY is this so?
2) WHY is this a keynote?

Why do countries exist who "hate democracy"? Well in most cases, they don't hate democracy per se, but rather compartmentalization of markets, enforced by organizations created by wealthy democracies such as the US and the EU. The reasons are not a general hate of democracy, but of a market that has closed its doors to the rest of the world in order to protect itself. Which is required if you understand economics; but naturally, this provokes anger among those who are not included.

Secondly, why is this a keynote?

Scare tactics. Bush wasn't the first to use it, McCain won't be the last Republican to utilize the power of creating a midset which is less likely to revolt against cutbacks in personal freedom.

You are not free. You are afraid of your own government. You are owned by your government. That is the reason for implementing scare tactics. Google it and educate yourself on these matters, read a book for a change (I'm not the first person to tell you this either, you know).

These are the questions you should ask if you want to prove credibility and intellect.

If you, on the other hand, continue to ramble about WWII and pitch cheesy and uninformed "we are the gloriousest country in the worlds"-type of facism, you only show people that you actually take a political speech for the bare truth and do not know crap about marketing. Yet you call yourself an internet marketer.

And your scare tactics that you adopted from the current government and a certain current canditate ("Yet if they were attacked by ANYONE!") - sorry, but they won't work outside of your solitude cloud in the depths of Unedcuationa.
 
What I don't get is how the U.S spends SO MUCH more on healthcare as a percentage of GDP, in a private system and still have so many uninsured/covered?

The W.H.O ranks U.S health care system very low - for the country that has so much that is an epic fail.
 
micfire & bobsoap; Very good posts. :)

Denmark, Sweden and Finland for example are socialist countries with high GDP, high standards of living, highly educated populaces and little unemployment. It will be a long time before America evolves into a country like one of those.
You forgot the richest (per capita) of them all, Norway ;)

Europe and other countries that provide socialized health care are having all kinds of problems that we don't have to worry about.
And the same exact thing can be said about the US or any country for that matter. You guys also have "all kinds of problems" other countries don't have, but so what?. The thing is - ALL countries have their problems. They're sometimes different, sometimes similar. Doesn't make one almightier than another.

When did socializem become the IN thing?
When did it become the OUT thing?
AND - why does it always have to be black and white? There are actually countries where socialism can live hand in hand with capitalism you know. Where there aren't poverty, where nobody goes hungry or without healthcare, where very very few go without jobs - yet, where people also can become very wealthy and rich and entrepreneurs can prosper. I live in such a country. The only thing I hate about it is the cold winters - but no politician can change that.

Do the rich get taxed more? Yes - as already has been pointed out; if you wanna get around that, you can. Financial advisors, clever reporting, etc. can cut the taxes so you can still enjoy your hard earned dough.

And in a country where the majority of people live happily, you get VERY low crime. The occasional murder here makes huge headline news - and 9 out of 10 times they are motivated out of jealousy where the criminal knew the victim. Not on random victims out of anger, despair, lust and greed caused by a frustrated people who feel unfairly treated. Again - we only have the types of murders that politics will never be able to change in any country.
 
Counterquestion - has ANY government that has deregulated and lowered taxes been able to create STABLE and FAIR living standards for ALL its citizens, along with a HEALTHY, PROSPERING, and LONG LIVING (read: not collapsing) economy?
Government creates nothing. People create things. Government redistributes (steals) and destroys (regulation).

Why are we concerned with ALL citizens? Citizens should be given an opportunity to succeed, by removing regulation and taxation, and it is up to each individual to earn his own dinner. Your ideal of a marxist utopia fails every time it is implemented. It usually fails badly.

Stability is not natural. Change (chaos) is a natural state of nature. And it is a natural state for man, and his lifetime.

If you want prosperity, get out of the way of the people who produce it. People who can manage capital, and create savings. People who work a second job and avoid debt. You don't do it by putting those people into a debt (fiat) money system, and then taxing them to create a glass ceiling.

Ever notice that more comes out of the US than anywhere else? Remember when the Berlin wall fell, and East Germany was exposed as being decades behind the rest of the world? Freedom works. We need more freedom, and the poor, will be able to feed and clothe themselves, instead of being subservient to a government that steals in their name, and (coincidentally) takes a healthy cut for themselves and their cronies.
 
I hope one day you live out of trash cans under a bridge and you will be wishing your fellow man would not be such a greedy fuck.
 
I hope one day you live out of trash cans under a bridge and you will be wishing your fellow man would not be such a greedy fuck.
I've been broke and almost homeless. I've been without food for days, and no change for a bus.

I have no right, to that which belongs to another. When we behave like animals, stealing through majority force, we're no longer men.

I will tell you one thing. Instead of being a little bitch, whining that I have nothing, and resenting my fellow man for his success, I will get my ass out from under that bridge, and find a way to survive and thrive.

To live dependent upon someone else, means that you are not free. I was born free, and I will die free. No man determines my happiness, and no man owes me anything. It's irrational to believe otherwise.
 
One more thing. Don't confuse charity, with the distance that voting for government force creates. When you vote for more taxes, or you protest for more socialization, you are advocating theft. If you want to give more, give more. You have no right to take from others, or to use the force of government to take from others.

That is theft, plain and simple. Now if someone came by their money dishonestly, that's different. But if a guy lives a simple life, works hard and makes a great wage, or builds up a business and reaps a great profit, you have no right to take, or redistribute the product of his blood sweat and tears. If you think you do, you are a fucking thief.

Be clear about that. Taking from others against their will, even with the government as the intermediary, and a majority vote as the "cover" doesn't not make it theft.

If you want to save the world, get the fuck off wickedfire, because you are probably lousy at making monies online with a bitch attitude, and get 3 jobs. Give away your material wealth to the less needy. Take food off of your own plate and give it to a hungry person.

But don't fucking steal from me.
 
Actually my city has an independent privately funded facility for Homeless people. There is even a program to help them get back on their feet. (Drug treatment, a place to stay, shower and clothing, help finding a job) The funny thing is, not everyone does it. I dont think most bums want to work. I donate to these organization out of my own goodwill. I dont need government taking my hard earned money. America is actually one of the most giving countries in the world. Thats how I got here, a very nice American couple sponsored my family out of their own will.

When will people start taking responsibility for their own life, instead of passing that responsibility to another. Responsibility is empowerment and its freedom.
 
why does it always have to be black and white? There are actually countries where socialism can live hand in hand with capitalism you know. Where there aren't poverty, where nobody goes hungry or without healthcare, where very very few go without jobs - yet, where people also can become very wealthy and rich and entrepreneurs can prosper. I live in such a country. The only thing I hate about it is the cold winters - but no politician can change that.

Do the rich get taxed more? Yes - as already has been pointed out; if you wanna get around that, you can. Financial advisors, clever reporting, etc. can cut the taxes so you can still enjoy your hard earned dough.

And in a country where the majority of people live happily, you get VERY low crime. The occasional murder here makes huge headline news - and 9 out of 10 times they are motivated out of jealousy where the criminal knew the victim. Not on random victims out of anger, despair, lust and greed caused by a frustrated people who feel unfairly treated. Again - we only have the types of murders that politics will never be able to change in any country.

this.
i heart norway.

Norway - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia -- int'l rankings and comparisons

one place on earth where the lack of unemployment is a problem:
Norway needs more unemployment - Aftenposten.no

Saglie presented the NAV prognosis for development in the labor market on Thursday, and the conclusion is that registered unemployment next year may dip under two percent.

one place on earth where poverty is not applicable:
Economy of Norway - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Population below poverty line: N/A

and let's not overlook some of the greatest norwegian contributions to the world:
Youtube - Hot Babes, Norwegian!
 
micfire & bobsoap; Very good posts. :)


You forgot the richest (per capita) of them all, Norway ;)


And the same exact thing can be said about the US or any country for that matter. You guys also have "all kinds of problems" other countries don't have, but so what?. The thing is - ALL countries have their problems. They're sometimes different, sometimes similar. Doesn't make one almightier than another.


When did it become the OUT thing?
AND - why does it always have to be black and white? There are actually countries where socialism can live hand in hand with capitalism you know. Where there aren't poverty, where nobody goes hungry or without healthcare, where very very few go without jobs - yet, where people also can become very wealthy and rich and entrepreneurs can prosper. I live in such a country. The only thing I hate about it is the cold winters - but no politician can change that.

Do the rich get taxed more? Yes - as already has been pointed out; if you wanna get around that, you can. Financial advisors, clever reporting, etc. can cut the taxes so you can still enjoy your hard earned dough.

And in a country where the majority of people live happily, you get VERY low crime. The occasional murder here makes huge headline news - and 9 out of 10 times they are motivated out of jealousy where the criminal knew the victim. Not on random victims out of anger, despair, lust and greed caused by a frustrated people who feel unfairly treated. Again - we only have the types of murders that politics will never be able to change in any country.


Wow, I'm like 25% Norwegian and my dad keeps saying he wants to move to Norway, ha. Now I know why.
 
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