A diet thread for grown-ups

amateursurgeon

amateursurgeon

Hot Metal and Methedrine
Apr 2, 2007
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The Uncanny Valley
I'm showing myself up as a hopeless optimist here, but I believe that at least some of WF's members are capable of intelligent, reasoned discussion. I'm sure I'll be bitterly disappointed and disillusioned by the outcome of this, but what the heck.

I'm genuinely interested in the subject of nutrition, and I have my own opinions. But I'd like to hear others as I've already learned some interesting stuff here.

Some ground rules :

1. Any assertion has to be backed up by proper, peer-reviewed evidence.
Home - PubMed - NCBI is the place to go for this.

Not some documentary, and not some book/blog post by a guy with either a product or an ideology to sell you.

And before you say "but scientists are all in the pocket of the evil corporations/pharma/obama", I'm married to one, and no, they are not.

2. No image macros/flaming etc (told you I was a hopeless optimist)

3. If you want to attack someone else's point of view, do it with your own studies, or by pointing out flaws in the evidence/interpretation. No ad hominem attacks or straw men.


So..... what constitutes a healthy diet?
 


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Too much stuff to look up studies for everything here unfortunately: I went to school for this for a while, and have spent a large part of my life devoted to nutrition and exercise.

- Unprocessed foods
- aim for organic if possible
- avoid filler ingredients.
- Vegetarian based diet, with planned amounts of the right meat thrown in.
- Lots of veggies
- Healthy Fats
- moderate amount of fruits
- lower glycemic foods
- Avoid sugars
- lower end of the saturated fat levels (some would debate)
- high fiber
- proper timing of meals/food choices. Certain foods are better earlier then late (sugars)
- Consistent meal timing. - This is debatable with the fasting/ lean gains crowd.
- Moderate/low alcohol intake.
- High water intake.

This is what I would say for pure health reasons. I'm an athlete and eat for performance and physique though.

On top of that I include supplements as part of the modern diet:
- quality probiotic
- quality multivitamin (not centrum BS). I recommend ADAM by NOW. Or even better would be the high quality whole food multivitamin blends.
- I am a fan of quality super green foods, but I don't eat enough vegetables even though I recommend them.
- Krill Oil
 
evolutionvision said:
Too much stuff to look up studies for everything here unfortunately: I went to school for this for a while, and have spent a large part of my life devoted to nutrition and exercise.

- Unprocessed foods
- aim for organic if possible
- avoid filler ingredients.
- Vegetarian based diet, with planned amounts of the right meat thrown in.
- Lots of veggies
- Healthy Fats
- moderate amount of fruits
- lower glycemic foods
- Avoid sugars
- lower end of the saturated fat levels (some would debate)
- high fiber
- proper timing of meals/food choices. Certain foods are better earlier then late (sugars)
- Consistent meal timing. - This is debatable with the fasting/ lean gains crowd.
- Moderate/low alcohol intake.
- High water intake.

This is what I would say for pure health reasons. I'm an athlete and eat for performance and physique though.

On top of that I include supplements as part of the modern diet:
- quality probiotic
- quality multivitamin (not centrum BS). I recommend ADAM by NOW. Or even better would be the high quality whole food multivitamin blends.
- I am a fan of quality super green foods, but I don't eat enough vegetables even though I recommend them.
- Krill Oil
Click to expand...
This, agree with you totally, except for maybe this part: with planned amounts of the right meat thrown in. (if we're being finicky about the absolute best things you could eat, healthwise) I wouldn't personally say any meat is truly healthy, when compared to vegetarian alternatives. Could you justify that bit?
 
Avoid sugar

But wait, theres more!

things that get processed as sugar (high glycemic index stuff)

All else is fuckall, but the only problem is sugar, mass potatoes, flour, hfcs are staples of the american diet and takes a major shift to avoid.
 
-joe- said:
This, agree with you totally, except for maybe this part: with planned amounts of the right meat thrown in. (if we're being finicky about the absolute best things you could eat, healthwise) I wouldn't personally say any meat is truly healthy, when compared to vegetarian alternatives. Could you justify that bit?
Click to expand...

If you want to be truly health AND eat meat you must eat organic. Too many hormones and other things are implemented into the cow in the factory farms. Same goes with chickens and pigs. Plus the factory farms feed their cows corn when the cows make up is to eat grass/hay. Everybody should watch Food Inc.

Believe me. I LOVE meat and I hate vegetarian/vegan propaganda (especially from this ex I dated). But Food Inc. is a good middle of the road documentary regarding organic compared to big business farming.
 
everlonglp3 said:
If you want to be truly health AND eat meat you must eat organic. Too many hormones and other things are implemented into the cow in the factory farms. Same goes with chickens and pigs. Plus the factory farms feed their cows corn when the cows make up is to eat grass/hay. Everybody should watch Food Inc.

Believe me. I LOVE meat and I hate vegetarian/vegan propaganda (especially from this ex I dated). But Food Inc. is a good middle of the road documentary regarding organic compared to big business farming.
Click to expand...

Organic doesn't mean its not big business...
 
everlonglp3 said:
If you want to be truly health AND eat meat you must eat organic. Too many hormones and other things are implemented into the cow in the factory farms. Same goes with chickens and pigs. Plus the factory farms feed their cows corn when the cows make up is to eat grass/hay. Everybody should watch Food Inc.

Believe me. I LOVE meat and I hate vegetarian/vegan propaganda (especially from this ex I dated). But Food Inc. is a good middle of the road documentary regarding organic compared to big business farming.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I'm by no means a vegetarian propagandist - in fact, I advise most people to never become a vegetarian - it's a bitch when you go out to eat!

However, that said, even though organic is definitely healthier than non-organic, firstly, there are still some things that can be added to their food and still classed as organic; and secondly, our digestive system isn't really designed for meat. Our intestines are too long.

Carnivores have pretty short intestines, meaning they eat the meat, and shit it out pretty soon after. Herbivores, on the other hand, have long intestines, as it gives them more time to digest the grass etc properly.
Digesting meat in a long intestine gives it time to fester, hence why meat-eaters are more likely to get bowel cancer.

(I have to do some cold-calling now, but I'll find some studies later and edit this post)
 
-joe- said:
Yeah, I'm by no means a vegetarian propagandist - in fact, I advise most people to never become a vegetarian - it's a bitch when you go out to eat!

However, that said, even though organic is definitely healthier than non-organic, firstly, there are still some things that can be added to their food and still classed as organic; and secondly, our digestive system isn't really designed for meat. Our intestines are too long.

Carnivores have pretty short intestines, meaning they eat the meat, and shit it out pretty soon after. Herbivores, on the other hand, have long intestines, as it gives them more time to digest the grass etc properly.
Digesting meat in a long intestine gives it time to fester, hence why meat-eaters are more likely to get bowel cancer.

(I have to do some cold-calling now, but I'll find some studies later and edit this post)
Click to expand...

What about humans who rely on large quantities of meat and animal fat to survive, such as the Eskimos?
 
A few of Dwight Schrute's tips for a healthy diet
- Lots of veggies - especially beets (preferably raw)
- Fish and chicken (grilled, not fried of course)
- Tons of water
- Avoid high glycemic index foods (like fruit)
- Raw nuts (sparingly)
- Some beef (preferably organic, grass-fed, not the hormone-filled corn-fed beef everyone eats)
- A cheat day every once in a while to eat some junk so you don't go crazy (you will feel like shit and be reminded why it was that you stopped eating junk food to begin with)
 
drop from 230 to 190 in a year

breakfast - oatmeal

lunch chicken breast + veggie

dinner chicken breast + veggie
 
sampunk said:
drop from 230 to 190 in a year

breakfast - oatmeal

lunch chicken breast + veggie

dinner chicken breast + veggie
Click to expand...

Cool. I went from 204 to 180. I did it in four months, but have kept it off for a yaer using the two things mentioned above your post.
 
Unfortunately, it's 2012, and it's completely pathetic but M.D.'s and nutritionists still haven't figured out what constitutes a healthy diet. There is no consensus at all. And yes, much of this is because most research is funded by industries whose profitability depends on the results.

You have your vegans like Dr. Ornish and Dr. Esselstyn who make the argument that the only way to prevent and even reverse heart disease is by eating food with extremely low fat and ZERO cholesterol.

Then you have the Dr. Atkins and Dr. Bernstein types who say the exact opposite! The Atkins diet is far from a fad that has faded out. And much recent research shows that a low-carb, high protein and fat diet is very healthy. These guys say the more fat the better.

From what I've gathered these 4 guys are not bought out by any industry. But they do have books. They all also make great arguments and show many studies for their beliefs.

There are many other nutritionists with many other theories too. But realize that M.D.s and nutritionists are just like the rest of us.. 95+% of them only regurgitate the things they were taught in school without ever thinking for themselves.

I was talking to someone about all of this nutrition confusion the other day and we came to the conclusion that there may not even be a best way for all of us to eat. Some of us might be genetically suited to eat completely differently than others. Inuit are probably genetically suited to eat almost all meat/fish/fat. Meanwhile, some Chinese who have lived around more veggies/grain than animals for thousands of years might be more genetically suited to consume that.

Unless you know exactly what genotype you are then you should probably stick to the middle of the road.
- low glycemic index carbs
- moderate cholesterol
- moderate fat
- moderate protein from meats
- to lose weight focus on lowering calories and eating balanced
- few processed foods
 
I've been drinking Vitamineral Green & Vitamineral Earth daily. I highly recommend it to anybody who wants to be healthier. Just read the reviews for it on Amazon they're great. (Especially the reviews for Vitamineral Green)
 
Dwight Schrute said:
A few of Dwight Schrute's tips for a healthy diet

- Avoid high glycemic index foods (like fruit)
- Raw nuts (sparingly)
Click to expand...
Disagree with you on these two things. Nuts are loaded with protein, numerous vitamins and minerals, and have a large percentage of healthy fats. Many fruits also have a low glycemic index, such as Cherries, peaches, pears, bananas, and plums.
 
No one really knows. One thing I gotta try though is eating what's on season... (e.g. don't eat oranges in winter)

- In spring, focus on tender, leafy vegetables that represent the fresh new growth of this season. The greening that occurs in springtime should be represented by greens on your plate, including Swiss chard, spinach, Romaine lettuce, fresh parsley, and basil.
- In summer, stick with light, cooling foods in the tradition of traditional Chinese medicine. These foods include fruits like strawberries, apple, pear, and plum; vegetables like summer squash, broccoli, cauliflower, and corn; and spices and seasonings like peppermint and cilantro.
- In fall, turn toward the more warming, autumn harvest foods, including carrot, sweet potato, onions, and garlic. Also emphasize the more warming spices and seasonings including ginger, peppercorns, and mustard seeds.
- In winter, turn even more exclusively toward warming foods. Remember the principle that foods taking longer to grow are generally more warming than foods that grow quickly. All of the animal foods fall into the warming category including fish, chicken, beef, lamb, and venison. So do most of the root vegetables, including carrot, potato, onions and garlic. Eggs also fit in here, as do corn and nuts.

Source: WHFoods: Healthy Eating with the Seasons
 
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