What Do You Do When Your Kids Want To Kill You?

[DewChugr]

Good luck, hope you get it sorted out.

Some people lie so well then can fool virtually anyone, Hare Psychopathy Checklist

Don't become one of the statistics,
google: teenage girl boyfriend kill her parents

 

[dreamache]

Sorry to disagree, but this is just not the case. Children crave structure, which includes rules and boundaries. They may not always like it in the short term, but in the long run it results in a more more adapted and stable individual.

Sure, we have rules and boundaries with our toddler. For instance, we've made it very clear she's to not hit her 4 month old sister. We've made it very clear that when she's nursing, when her mother says "enough", that's enough. We've made it clear that she's not to flip over the empty clothes basket and start jumping on top of it, as she's fallen repeatedly.

What happens when she breaks one of these rules? We tell her (attempt, sometimes it's hard not to raise voices) why she shouldn't do it again. That's it, we don't hit her, we don't give her a time out; and it works. Every damn morning she would take my cup of water next to my bed and spill it on the carpet. She did it for nearly a month straight, each time telling her not to do that, it makes the carpet wet; until eventually one morning she looked at the cup and said, "Don't drop the cup of water on the carpet." in her 2 yr old voice and hasn't since. Most parents would spank/hit/give timeouts; often times ineffective and dangerous.

Now that doesn't mean you take away their ability to make decisions or form opinions or think on their own. There is a big difference between a structured life and an oppressed life.

She does have a structured life. The point I differ is how we deal with undesirable behavior.

Giving in to the inclination that children should be treated as equals and allowing them to act accordingly is what results in shit-head kids.

There's a big difference between being neglectful, and regarding a child's free will and preferences as equal to our own (within reason, a childs free will to run out into a street is an obvious limitation). But if my kid won't sit down at the dinner table and eat her broccoli, I'm not going to sit there "YOU MUST EAT THIS! OR ELSE!" like most parents do. I'm going to let her eat what she wants, and tell her why it's important to eat broccoli, and even role play with her to get the point across. This same philosophy is consistent across many other situations and ages.

So what really results in shit-head kids (which, they aren't really shitheads, their behavior is a direct reflection of who raised them) is either (a) neglectful parents who don't give a fuck what they do on one end of the spectrum, or (b) authoritarian parents who, instead of using reasoning and all the other positive associations we use with others, hit them, lock them in a room, stick them in a corner, or steal property (and yeah, while you bought it for them, let's get real; they view it as their own).

Edit: And yeah, what some here will say "REASON with my child?!? You're nuts! I can't reason with them"; but that's almost always because they've never been reasoned with as well. If you want to reason with your child, you start from a very early age, less than 1 even, and you reason with them. Which is what I'm trying to say here, you reason with your friends, you should reason with your child. If your child's relationship with you very early on consisted of being hit, given timeouts, or property was stolen, that's not reason. So it's no wonder peoples children won't reason with them, they weren't reasoned with either.

The situation about your sister is extremely anecdotal. I'm guessing you've never raised any of your own. No offense, but its not the same.

 

[JoseArmando]

She did it for nearly a month straight, each time telling her not to do that, it makes the carpet wet; until eventually one morning she looked at the cup and said, "Don't drop the cup of water on the carpet." in her 2 yr old voice and hasn't since.

Lol you brainwashed your kid

 

[dreamache]

Lol you brainwashed your kid

lol, Research has shown that it takes up to 20-50 times of telling a toddler something before they can understand it. To them, it's exploring cause and effect. "Ooowee, what will happen if I spill this water on the floor, this is fun" opposed to the parents perspective, "THAT LITTLE SHIT IS BEING BAD!". Same thing with introducing food, just have to keep consistent.

 

[amateursurgeon]

Structure and control are not the same thing.

Small children crave structure because it gives them a feeling of safety. They need to know that with you around, the world is safe to explore. That doesn't mean they need hitting, shouting at, or 'time-out' when they do something you don't approve of.

Learning to face life without the externally-supported structure of your parents is pretty much what the entire process of adolescence is about. Also, what most people (not just kids) want, and what they think they want are usually two very different things.

 

[WickedJoe]

inb4 Anarchists
shit, nm too late

 

[hellblazer]

Depends, women learn early in their lives how to manipulate others with crying.. even before they learn how to manipulate others with their body.

Yeah, if she has sociopathic tendencies it could all be an act. The only way to know is to install some type of monitoring system on her computer, pretend everything is all normal, and then watch everything she does when she thinks you're not looking.

 

[Midas Touch]

Speeding alone doesn't hurt anyone. If you are skilled enough to do so, you should be allowed to.



As you should if you hurt someone by being reckless.



Because you never owned those possessions in the first place. The banks did. Until you paid that debt off, you do not own it.

If someone gives you a gift, they have given you ownership of that property. If they took it away the next day, that would still be considered theft.



Just because it happens that way doesn't make it right. Why can you mouth off to a fast food employee and not get locked in a cage? What is so special about a guy in a uniform with a shiny badge and gun? What good is the first amendment if it only applies to complimenting law enforcement?



Spoken like a true stockholm syndrome case.



This is where a good sense of judgement comes in handy.



You restrain them, just like you would with everybody else regardless of their age.



Perfect. Because you are going to cover all the bases, and after you've coddled them all that time, they won't have a clue how to handle any problems you may have overlooked because you've always been there to catch them with your safety net.



You can also warn them of the consequences of certain actions. If they choose not to heed your advice, let them make the mistake. and learn from it.



If you wouldn't do the same thing to an adult, or somebody else's child, then you are treating them like property.



1950 called, they says you have something of theirs that they would like returned.

ROFLMFAO!!!!!

again....


ROFLMFAO!!!!!

 

[IceToEskimos]

Yeah, if she has sociopathic tendencies it could all be an act. The only way to know is to install some type of monitoring system on her computer, pretend everything is all normal, and then watch everything she does when she thinks you're not looking.

This is a full time job.

It's very difficult to keep tabs on everything another person does.

 

[b_sun]

Sure, we have rules and boundaries with our toddler. For instance, we've made it very clear she's to not hit her 4 month old sister. We've made it very clear that when she's nursing, when her mother says "enough", that's enough. We've made it clear that she's not to flip over the empty clothes basket and start jumping on top of it, as she's fallen repeatedly.

What happens when she breaks one of these rules? We tell her (attempt, sometimes it's hard not to raise voices) why she shouldn't do it again. That's it, we don't hit her, we don't give her a time out; and it works. Every damn morning she would take my cup of water next to my bed and spill it on the carpet. She did it for nearly a month straight, each time telling her not to do that, it makes the carpet wet; until eventually one morning she looked at the cup and said, "Don't drop the cup of water on the carpet." in her 2 yr old voice and hasn't since. Most parents would spank/hit/give timeouts; often times ineffective and dangerous.



She does have a structured life. The point I differ is how we deal with undesirable behavior.



There's a big difference between being neglectful, and regarding a child's free will and preferences as equal to our own (within reason, a childs free will to run out into a street is an obvious limitation). But if my kid won't sit down at the dinner table and eat her broccoli, I'm not going to sit there "YOU MUST EAT THIS! OR ELSE!" like most parents do. I'm going to let her eat what she wants, and tell her why it's important to eat broccoli, and even role play with her to get the point across. This same philosophy is consistent across many other situations and ages.

So what really results in shit-head kids (which, they aren't really shitheads, their behavior is a direct reflection of who raised them) is either (a) neglectful parents who don't give a fuck what they do on one end of the spectrum, or (b) authoritarian parents who, instead of using reasoning and all the other positive associations we use with others, hit them, lock them in a room, stick them in a corner, or steal property (and yeah, while you bought it for them, let's get real; they view it as their own).

Edit: And yeah, what some here will say "REASON with my child?!? You're nuts! I can't reason with them"; but that's almost always because they've never been reasoned with as well. If you want to reason with your child, you start from a very early age, less than 1 even, and you reason with them. Which is what I'm trying to say here, you reason with your friends, you should reason with your child. If your child's relationship with you very early on consisted of being hit, given timeouts, or property was stolen, that's not reason. So it's no wonder peoples children won't reason with them, they weren't reasoned with either.

I agree with a lot of what you said. There is nothing wrong with reasoning and helping a child arrive at the correct conclusion. You can also lay down rules without threats, ex: OR ELSE!!

With that said, the issue I see with a "child's free will and preferences" in your example is that children will almost always opt for the easy way out. In other words, a child's preference is almost never going to be to eat the good-for-you food or pick up their own toys, or go to bed when it's time. Leaving the choices up to the child is going to end up bad. It also steers the child into thinking they can have or do whatever they want, which is pretty much opposite of the real world. It's our responsibility to prepare our kids to the very best of our ability for the shit world that's out there. It requires a lot of 'tough love'.

My assumption was poor. But if you only have a toddler, you have a ways to go sir.

 

[rusvik]

In my opinion, kids don't mind being diciplined or restricted, but they do mind being treated unfairly. Children have very acute senses of fairness. That's why you need to stick to decisions I think when dealing with children. You can't go all crazy-mommy and say 'Just because I say so'.

 

[microphone head]

I2E - Can't offer you any advice, but wish you the best and hope you get this shit sorted ok.

 

[Mightier]

for whatever it's worth (zero), I think you're handling this situation very well. My sympathies for you, your daughter, and the rest of your family as this has to be extremely stressful on everyone.

If there's anything a stranger on the internet can do, hit me up via PM.

 

[teatree]

I've read the whole thread. Where's the girl's Mum, and her Nanas (on both sides)?

It might be that she's just acting out because she doesn't get on with your GF, and talking to a female family member might help.

Also - 15-year-olds need a little bit of flexibility. No harm in watching a bit of TV after she's done her homework. Much better to be addicted to watching some inane soap than addicted to Facebook, IMO. They're just starting to become mini-adults at that stage, and treating them like five-year-olds with restrictions makes them chafe and rebel. Everyone needs a bit of fun in their lives, and if they don't get it in harmless ways, they look for it in places they shouldn't.

Also, 15-year-old girls usually spend most of their time with their other girl friends and only a bit of time with their boyfriend - at that stage he's just a prop to provide something to talk about to their girlfriends. What do her friends think, do they know what's going on?

Good luck anyway.

 

[JMan1234]

My ideas of parenting are quite counterculture, so what I'm about to say; most experience a knee-jerk reaction to blow it off and call me crazy.. But I have an asshole and an opinion so I'll chime in. These are just some ideas that aren't exactly directed at Ice..

The conventional parent-child authoritarian hierarchy needs to go. We've been conditioned and trained from day one to view children as inferiors and property, where their mere act of (involuntary) existence under our house demands obedience and blind respect.

Humans do not like control. I'll say it again because it might slip by, humans do not like control, regardless of age. Whether the control is coming from the state to its citizenry, a teacher to a student, or a parent to a child-- control will always create struggle.

My sister has a 14 year old daughter and they used the same phone control tactics, and that shit does not work. It only creates for *more* struggle. What if your best friend, a guy you kick back with and drink beers did something to piss you off; or something you didn't agree with, and you took away his phone? You would never consider doing it (unless you're a flat out asshole and wanted a fight). But many parents think that's acceptable from the parent-child relationship because of this belief in hierarchical authority.

The alternative is to start viewing our children as equals. They didn't ask to be our children. They're involuntarily dependent on us for survival, so they owe us nothing beyond thanking us for being good parents (or letting us know if not). If we get rid of demanding obedience "because we're her parents", and we look at them and approach conflict as though we were dealing with our friends, you're replacing control with mutual respect and value for eachothers feelings; much like how we handle friendships. My wife and I started doing this with our toddler. If she wants to eat chocolate and no dinner food, fine. We've found she actually self regulates, much like we do. If she wants go with me to get the mail without shoes when it's 24 degrees, fine; she'll experience some cold. Less headaches, less struggle. Edit: Of course we encourage her to eat right, tell her why, and it sinks in eventually; but the point is we're not changing behavior through control alone.

Our pre frontal cortex (the area of the brain responsible for controlling and processing emotion) isn't fully developed until we're 25. That's why at very young ages, temper tantrums occur (the inability to process emotion). It's why teenagers have such up and down rollercoaster emotions; they can't deal with emotions. It's our job as parents to help them through these times with understanding and love, not through control measures.

With that said, in the OP's case, it doesn't sound like such a terrible thing to remove a phone from someone who's indulging in thoughts of mass murder; but it's still only a control mechanism and it's going to do absolutely 0 to help fix the root problem.

And I actually agree with HB, if these texts weren't in any way taken out of context and she's genuinely experiencing these feelings, something traumatic has happened to her; probably when she was very young; and that will require therapy. In the mean time, I'd strongly consider dealing with this situation as if she was your very best friend, control is not going to fix the problem.

Good luck though man.

This sounds like hippie crap to me. Pussification of America right here.

Every kid needs discipline, structure, clear rules, and a good ass whooping every once in awhile.
Kid's may not enjoy discipline at the time it is happening, but they will respect you for it later.
And no, it is not the parents job to be best friends with their kids. It's to raise them properly, teach them
honor, respect, etc... If being best friends comes along with that, great....but that's not the parents job.

I've got a few friends whose parents were "best friends" with them. Where are these friends now?
Loserville USA, population: themselves.

The friends who had strict parents who raised them correctly are all for the most part very successful.

 

[teatree]

^^^

It's very important to realize that it's not all or nothing. Children under ten need structure because they are children. But after that, slowly loosen the restrictions because you are trying to teach them to stand on their own two feet, and they can only learn that by having a go at stuff themselves.

Restricting a child's TV time at age 5 makes perfect sense. Restricting it at age 15, does not make as much sense. There's a very old fashioned saying "The devil makes trouble for idle hands". Nature abhors a vacuum. If you prevent your child from watching a bit of TV in their down time, what else is there to fill that time? Chatting to strangers on Facebook? Allow them to get a part-time job doing a paper-round, allow them to watch soap operas if they want, it's just harmless fun.

From about 12 onwards it's a negotiation - you allow them a little bit more liberty subject to strict curfews, and if they stick to the rules it continues, if they break the rules, you rein them back. And you gradually allow them more and more freedom in a controlled way - it's not just about trusting them, it's about trusting whether you've successfully brainwashed the right attitudes into them in their first ten years. Act like a jailer who gives them no freedom or privacy in their teen years, and you end up with trouble. Also - children need contact with their extended family - their grandparents, their cousins. Extreme nuclear families where the child has literally no adult to talk to but their father and his GF are not healthy.

A lot of people who are pontificating about the benefits of extreme discipline appear to have no children themselves. Children are not robots, they are people, and if you have more than one, you'll be shocked at how different their personalities are and how different the strategies for dealing with them need to be (while at the same time maintaining fairness between the two of them).

 

[JarredLv]

This sounds like hippie crap to me. Pussification of America right here.

Every kid needs discipline, structure, clear rules, and a good ass whooping every once in awhile.
Kid's may not enjoy discipline at the time it is happening, but they will respect you for it later.
And no, it is not the parents job to be best friends with their kids. It's to raise them properly, teach them
honor, respect, etc... If being best friends comes along with that, great....but that's not the parents job.

I've got a few friends whose parents were "best friends" with them. Where are these friends now?
Loserville USA, population: themselves.

The friends who had strict parents who raised them correctly are all for the most part very successful.

I guess we can just disregard all the empirical evidence that shows "a good asswhooping" leads to many problems in adolescence and adulthood, including mental illness.

 

[Garrett]

This book is a fantastic read and I think would help.

 

[Ar Scion]

I don't mean to pile on dreamache.

But yeah, your approach sounds very new-age-womens-magazine-romantic-comedy-hollywood parenting.

Were you raised that way? What's the deal? No judgement bro.

 

[IceToEskimos]

Restricting a child's TV time at age 5 makes perfect sense. Restricting it at age 15, does not make as much sense. There's a very old fashioned saying "The devil makes trouble for idle hands".

It's interesting, you mention this, because my GF and I have split-tested numerous "media-strategies" with the kids, in an attempt to discover what kind of policy would get us closer to our goal of a harmonious and peaceful household with a minimum of conflict.

Over the course of a year, we experimented with a variety of different schedules, while keeping track of the arguments and fights that occurred, and noting the general mood of the kids.

Over time, the results of our little test showed that the kids were happier, and better behaved when they spent less time being "entertained" by television, and that the more time they spent in front of the box the greater the chances for conflict between themselves or with us.

I don't know if you have kids or not, but I've paid attention to mine, and what I've seen is that the less time they are able to spend in self absorbed consumption, the happier they are.