Women As SEALs, Rangers and Other Spec Operators

JakeStratham

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A few days ago, two women graduated from Ranger school, the first of their gender to do so.


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Around that time, Admiral Jon Greenert said there's no reason women can't be SEALs as long as they meet the established standards.


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A few years back, SecDef Leon Panetta said women would be joining men on the front lines in 2016. That's right around the corner.


There are a lot of issues with men and women serving together, where they do so as boots-on-the-ground infantry on the front lines or special operators doing nighttime HALOs into enemy territory. Physical strength and stamina are merely scraping the surface.

Personally, I think it's a bad idea.

What do you think?
 


Horrible idea. They don't have the same physical strength. Plus, they face an extra threat the men don't face in most situations (unless they're invading San Francisco): rape.
 
Women should have the opportunity to apply, but given the rigorous physical requirements to be a SEAL, I seriously doubt any will complete the training.



That's just ridiculous.

SEAL training is definitely no joke, but either is Ranger School. My best friend (dude is in very good physical/mental condition), washed out of Ranger school. When I was in the Navy, I trained with Rangers and SEALS. SEALs are certainly the most elite, but Rangers aren't far behind. I have no doubt in my mind a women can pass BUD/S.
 
Horrible idea. They don't have the same physical strength. Plus, they face an extra threat the men don't face in most situations (unless they're invading San Francisco): rape.

This is a common misconception, but a lot more men are raped (absolute numbers) in the military than women.

Edit:

Preliminary findings of an extensive survey of 170,000 troops released Thursday revealed that 20,000 service members said they had experienced at least one incident of unwanted sexual contact in the past year, representing nearly 5 percent of all active-duty women and 1 percent of active-duty men.

Source: Incidents of rape in military much higher than previously reported

Not related to US military, but related: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazonian_Guard
 
What I think is they lowered the acceptance demands to get the women in and that as a result these units won't be elite anymore.
 
If they *want* to, they should be able to. If they can meet the standard, then they're as qualified as any other male who've meet the standard. The standard, thought, should not be altered because they're a female.

Sidenote: if a chick wants to be a ground fighter, HAVE FUN. I was in the Army for 5 years and, to tell you the truth, it sucked ass.

Do you know how much it sucks to wear the same outfit day in and day out for a week while you're doing physical labor in the hot sun?

Yeah, you've guessed it, it sucks ass.

You're carrying all your shit in your backpack so you don't have a change of clothes.

There were times when I woke up at 5am, pick up my uniform, and it was crisp with dried sweat and dirt from the day before.

Also, Army regulations says that the minimum amount of showers a soldier is to have is 1 shower/week while in the field.

If a chick wants to do this and can do this, good for her. I'll shake her hand and say "thank you for your service." As for me, I'm out and am enjoying the civilian life. haha.
 
SEAL training is definitely no joke, but either is Ranger School. My best friend (dude is in very good physical/mental condition), washed out of Ranger school. When I was in the Navy, I trained with Rangers and SEALS. SEALs are certainly the most elite, but Rangers aren't far behind. I have no doubt in my mind a women can pass BUD/S.

The difference of course, between BUD/S and Ranger school, is that you only get one shot to make it through BUD/S in one go, and not one of the eight women who participated in Rangers school made it through in one go. Some recycled three times. Ranger school has approximately 45% success rate while BUD/S only has 20-25% success rate, and that's after having only accepted about 6% of applicants.

I quite liked this post made on the Funker530 Facebook page yesterday.

From Craig Sawyer

As a Navy SEAL Sniper, my ruck was routinely 120 pounds. My second line was another 50-60 pounds. My main weapon, if carrying the Tac 50 was another 30 pounds. I'm 6 ft, 220 pounds with a 33 inch waist. There were many times I could barely stand up with my own equipment on my back. I had to jump that gear from airplanes in the dark, lock it out of submarines and swim it into hostile countries, hump it through jungles, deserts and mountains for further than I'm allowed to disclose. I can tell you from sacrificing my health in that capacity for my country, that's a brutally physical job, no matter how you slice it. It takes a brute to get those tools into a foreign country, not to mention actually WINNING the fight against their country's fiercest Special Forces Units. Less than 1% of the fittest and baddest males are capable of making the grade.

What if your 275 pound teammate goes down in a firefight? I can barely drag him out of there using all the strength and insane determination I have. The fact is, nobody less physically capable could get him to the helo to get him off target and back home. Does he deserve to have teammates he can save, but who could not save him?

There are jobs women can do better then men. I've seen it in the intelligence community and several other places throughout my career. Many woman are impressively sharp, talented and have tremendous contributions to make to our nation. God bless them for it! I've been impressed many, many times. My own wife, for one unclassified example, can type at full raging tilt while shaking her foot for the dog to play with and having an attentive, detailed conversation with me about my day, simultaneously!! I consider that a ridiculous miracle. I could simply never do that and I know it. God has made us the way we are, because he has a plan. That's been my observation and it is my belief.

I must say, though, that until women are directly and routinely competing with monsters like Mike Tyson for the world heavyweight boxing championship, UFC championships, competing very effectively with the NFL Superbowl champs, and competing directly with male heavyweight powerlifting champions, putting them in front line Spec Ops units that require they beat the most capable foreign Special Forces Units to death, even if hand-to-hand combat is required (and it has ALWAYS boiled down to that historically) within a primal and necessarily physical profession, for our national security is…misguided. That's the nicest term I can place upon such a supremely foolish development. This is a classic example of decisions being made by those who have ZERO concept of what it really takes to win a fight with no rules, in the dark of night, halfway around the globe, when our nation's security is at risk and successful force is required to save the day, at all cost. Failure is not an option.

Political Correctness is going to create a disaster here. Hide and watch. It's not about any lack of respect for women, or their worth. It's about the rational and responsible recognition of the factual genetic differences that make the sexes gloriously different. As someone who has a particular appreciation and respect for women and the contributions they make to bring us all into this world, nurture us into the people we grow up to be and keep us in check when we try stupid stuff, I can honestly say trying to force women into such an extremely physically demanding role as Navy SEALs will end in tragedy. Lord, forgive us for such Liberal/Progressive PC foolishness.

National Security is not a game, nor a social experiment to make people who are created radically and marvelously different, feel "equal" for the sake of the lost. Some of us understand our place. Maybe we should step back up and recover our country, because things have obviously gotten downright stupid.

Here's to those who keep it real and seek honest answers to how to best make our various contributions to our national security and our nation's best interest!
 
The difference of course, between BUD/S and Ranger school, is that you only get one shot to make it through BUD/S in one go, and not one of the eight women who participated in Rangers school made it through in one go. Some recycled three times. Ranger school has approximately 45% success rate while BUD/S only has 20-25% success rate, and that's after having only accepted about 6% of applicants.

I quite liked this post made on the Funker530 Facebook page yesterday.

Right on. Let's get real equality and see them box men, etc. Here's a little proof of what happens:

Transgender "Female" MMA Fighter Brutally Injures Female Opponent

Fox defeated Tamikka Brents just two minutes into the first round of the match. Brents suffered a damaged orbital bone, which required seven staples, and a concussion.

“I’ve fought a lot of women,” Brents stated. “And never felt the strength I felt in a fight as I did that night. I can’t answer whether it’s because [he] was born a man or not, because I’m not a doctor,” she stated. “I can only say, I’ve never felt so overpowered ever in my life, and I am an abnormally strong female in my own right.
 
If I were a Seal I'd strongly prefer not to have a female in the squad. I don't even like having a girl matched with me on my team on CS.
 
I don't give a fuck if they want to join and are down to die for their country, more power to them, they have more balls than most of men out there including me.

I am not getting shot, fuck that shit.
 
Women keep complaining they want equality, so there you go. There's your equality. Grab your M-16, and off to the desert to kill the terrorists you go.

It's a volunteer job, and if they meet the specs, I don't see the problem. Conscription on the other hand could get a little messy, but as long as it stays a volunteer only military, I have no issues with it. I've never went through SEAL training myself, but I'm pretty confident they wipe your emotions out completely, so I wouldn't worry about emotions towards a woman compromising a mission. I'm pretty sure their training ensures that doesn't happen.
 
I think it's a great thing, at least our SEALs will now have hot meals and clean clothing when needed...
 
They have the opportunity to do it and if they qualify, then let them do it.

I'm actually really curious as to how this all plays out in the future. Like they say "hell hath no fury like a woman scorned". Who knows, they might be better at killing then men are.

I agree with the arguments that it is a bad idea based on stuff like physical limitations, but we will never know unless we try.