C&D Advice on high income domain

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Rage9 said:
Dullspace you are a dumb fuck. I have personally never herd of this - doesn't mean it's not true, but prove it for fuck sakes. No Link = speculation. And even so doesn't mean verisign will get involved. Lots of money can be involved.

I have herd of others whom have transfered their names to say, a frech registrar, or whatnot where US interests could not touch them. Again, prove otherwise. I hear they exist.

Same thing goes for webspace. A US C&D will not hold up in another country.

Further more good luck suing you in AUS when the real problem is in the US. I'd doubt it would go that far.

Frankley unless I received a summons [and yes I have been sued before] I would do jack shit.

It's hard to sue someone outside the US, get it out of US control [like Russia] and proceed to not care.

Again prove me wrong. I may be wrong but show me for fuck sakes. Lot's of things are fucked up in the legal system.
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PokerPages News: Bodog Loses Domain Name in Patent Suit: Poker Now on NewBodog.com

Bodog didn't show up in court because they thought they didn't have any American assets. They lost Bodog.com because all .coms are under US jurisdiction. Who is the dumbfuck now?

Want to compare domain portfolios next? Why don't you tell me what kind of million dollar names you own, or am I the only one here with those? Dumbass.
 


Dullspace said:
PokerPages News: Bodog Loses Domain Name in Patent Suit: Poker Now on NewBodog.com

Bodog didn't show up in court because they thought they didn't have any American assets. They lost Bodog.com because all .coms are under US jurisdiction. Who is the dumbfuck now?

Want to compare domain portfolios next? Why don't you tell me what kind of million dollar names you own, or am I the only one here with those? Dumbass.
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Again, you idiot, it never says anything about the domain being registered outside the US. It may not be a US company but was probably registered in the US. Then again they did loose by DEFAULT because THEY DIDN'T SHOW UP TO COURT.

This article proves nothing. Period. All it is about, is a fucking company being sued in the us and loosing for not showing up in court. This can happen, but if your registrar is outside the US, there is no jurisdiction to turn over your domain name. The registrar would have to be sued in THEIR country. Again good try.

If this wasn't the case, we'd own all of russia domains, so get real. they can't collect on you if your outside the country.

Again, your prove fucking nothing. Try again. And yes show me your fucking million dollar domains so I can laugh at them.
 
Rage9 said:
Again, you idiot, it never says anything about the domain being registered outside the US. It may not be a US company but was probably registered in the US. Then again they did loose by DEFAULT because THEY DIDN'T SHOW UP TO COURT.

This article proves nothing. Period. All it is about, is a fucking company being sued in the us and loosing for not showing up in court. This can happen, but if your registrar is outside the US, there is no jurisdiction to turn over your domain name. The registrar would have to be sued in THEIR country. Again good try.

If this wasn't the case, we'd own all of russia domains, so get real. they can't collect on you if your outside the country.

Again, your prove fucking nothing. Try again. And yes show me your fucking million dollar domains so I can laugh at them.
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Go hang out with Lord Brar and this guy:

http://www.wickedfire.com/hosting-domains/32225-got-offer-domain-advice-please.html#post312043

I'm done educating kids on WF for today.
 
Hi, I am new here to the forum.

If you dont mind I will jump right in to this heated discussion. :)

If I were you I would listen to those who advice you to ask a lawyer, who is specialized in this kind of issues.

But my own opinion is that you knowingly use there product which they automaticly will have TM on (if it is registered then it look worse for you), and in a way where you earn money from it. You must think of it this way, THEY have branded this product and used money on promoting it, YOU just come by and use what THEY have used time and money on to earn for yourself, you dont even pay them % or anything, but just take advantages of their brand.

Even legal business partners pay either a % or a yearly fee to use a brand. So why do you think you are allowed and above the law, to just come and use a brand, without the company's acknowledgement?

The only time an use of a brand is allowed is if it is NON-commercial (as obvious yours are not, you earn money from their brand), if it is used in NON bad faith way.

If you still dont want to give up "your" domain, then you must think at, you can risk loosing not only the domain, but also be liable to pay a biiig amount of money to the company!

If you still are not convinced, then do your self a favor and at least search these two sites weither they actually have registered their TM or not:
For only US:
Trademark Electronic Search System (TESS)
For internationale:
Madrid Express (Trademarks) Search

And this link is to WIPO domain dispute search, try search here if there have been any issues with the product/brand before:
Search WIPO Cases and WIPO Panel Decisions

I hope you dont misunderstand, it is not to diss you, but help you I wrote this.

Best regards,
 
Guys what an overwhelming response to my dilemma. I appreciate the input and have decided it will be best to do something along the lines of what Gumby say's. Im going to move the hosting off shore. Currently hosted with hostingzoom in usa but registered in australia.

There has been a large amount of work gone into this domain with over 40k backlinks to it now so not keen to just let it go. Dont really know about getting a legal opinion as I know i'v broken trademark rules but so has the 50 other sites who compete in my niche, what gives.

Does anyone recommend a good offshore hosting company. Dont need dedi just shared will do for now. Ill be happy to sign up under your affili link if they are quality host that you have had experience with.

As for the idea of swapping htaccess to new site, think that might be the way i go.

Anyway guys cheers again for all the input into this.
 
I am really sorry if this is a double post, I waited a day for the first post I posted to show but it didnt, so I try again, sorry again if this is double post.)

Hi, I am new here to the forum.

If you dont mind I will jump right in to this heated discussion.

If I were you I would listen to those who advice you to ask a lawyer, who is specialized in this kind of issues.

But my own opinion is that you knowingly use there product which they automaticly will have TM on (if it is registered then it look worse for you), and in a way where you earn money from it. You must think of it this way, THEY have branded this product and used money on promoting it, YOU just come by and use what THEY have used time and money on to earn for yourself, you dont even pay them % or anything, but just take advantages of their brand.

Even legal business partners pay either a % or a yearly fee to use a brand. So why do you think you are allowed and above the law, to just come and use a brand, without the company's acknowledgement?

The only time an use of a brand is allowed is if it is NON-commercial (as obvious yours are not, you earn money from their brand), if it is used in NON bad faith way.

If you still dont want to give up "your" domain, then you must think at, you can risk loosing not only the domain, but also be liable to pay a biiig amount of money to the company!

If you still are not convinced, then do your self a favor and at least search these two sites weither they actually have registered their TM or not:
For only US:
Trademark Electronic Search System (TESS)
For internationale:
Madrid Express (Trademarks) Search

And this link is to WIPO domain dispute search, try search here if there have been any issues with the product/brand before:
Search WIPO Cases and WIPO Panel Decisions

I hope you dont misunderstand, it is not to diss you, but help you I wrote this.

Best regards,
 
Ajay said:
Guys what an overwhelming response to my dilemma. I appreciate the input and have decided it will be best to do something along the lines of what Gumby say's. Im going to move the hosting off shore. Currently hosted with hostingzoom in usa but registered in australia.

There has been a large amount of work gone into this domain with over 40k backlinks to it now so not keen to just let it go. Dont really know about getting a legal opinion as I know i'v broken trademark rules but so has the 50 other sites who compete in my niche, what gives.

Does anyone recommend a good offshore hosting company. Dont need dedi just shared will do for now. Ill be happy to sign up under your affili link if they are quality host that you have had experience with.

As for the idea of swapping htaccess to new site, think that might be the way i go.

Anyway guys cheers again for all the input into this.
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You really need to consult an attorney and plan for the worst case scenario.

If they haven't vigorously defended their trademark in the past, you may not have to worry about the trademark infringement, but they will still probably be able to UDRP the domain away from you.

Using .htaccess to 301 everything to the new domain name will help with indexing but if you lose the domain you're going to lose those backlinks as well.

It sucks, but that's the chance you take when you use a trademarked name.
 
dullspace is absolutely right.... you're CLEARLY ignorant if you think otherwise...

Look up case of GlobalSantaFe Corp. vs GlobalSantaFe.com. Corp based in US, the registrar Hangang Systems in Korea. October 5 2001 filed ACPA in rem action against the domain name and won the order in April 1 2002 which directed Verisign and Hangang to transfer the domain to plaintiffs within 10 days of receipt of the order. Hangang files injustion on April 9 2002 with District Court of Seoul and judge's write-up below:

"True, we cannot require a foreign court to yield when the US court was the first to assume jurisdiction, but neither can we acquiesce in a rule under which the US court recedes regardless of its priority in time. That rule would empower a defendant in the US to oust our courts of in rem jurisdiction merely by filling its own action int he courts of any hospitable country -- of which there would be no shortage if that were our rule."

Verisign was directed to either exercise HOLD status on the domain, or delete the record from registry if Hangang didn't comply with transfer request. Quite simply, Verisign and it's Root Servers are in US soil, as such any .com/net/org domain fall under in rem US jurisdiction....

Here's a write-up I did from another domain forum..
this is were it gets complicated and why copyright/TM law is fascinating... Traditionally you could have Denny's store in London and XYZ could open a Denny's store in Ontario even if you have previously established a TM in the name. The idea was that customers would not likely be confused due to geographical disparity...

With the internet though and domains one interesting case Panavision vs Panavision.com which was a website owned by Dennis Toeppen which included photos of the city of Pana, Ilinois. The District court and Ninth Circuit Court ruled that Toeppen had violated the Federal Trademark Dilution Act because Panavision's inability to use the panavision.com website diminished the "capacity of the Panavision marks to identify and distinguish Panavision's goods and services on the internet" (Panavision Int'l vs Toeppen, 141 F.3d 1316 (9th Cir. 1998).

In so doing, the court was, in effect expanding the geographical reach of TM law, at least with regard to domain names. So, while you still couldn't sue XYZ in Ontario for owning violating your TM by choosing a confusingly similar name for its store (based on geographical disparity), you might now have a cause of action concerning dennys.com domain name even if XYZ registered the name ahead of you.

This led to the expansion of ACPA act and thus in the online context, trademark law is now far more likely to operate extraterritorially. The issue is that any domain name relies on the Verisign registry an entity located within US district so your options are the following:

a) current registrar of the domain can cancel it by directing the registry to delete the registration from the Registry Database
b) Registry for the pertinent top-level domain can disable the domain by placing it "ON HOLD"
c) Registry can cancel a domain name by acting unilaterally to delete the registration information without the pertinent registrar's cooperation.

Again registering, transferring or deleting a domain typically involves interaction between the registrar and the registry and is governed by several contracts such as the registry-registrar agreement, the registrar accreditation agreement and the .com registration agreement. Thus, Verisign for each domain name in the ".com" TLD is responsible for maintaining and propagating the following information: i) domain name ii) the IP addresses of NS1 and NS2 of the registrar for the domain name iii) expiration date for registration.

The (c) option I listed above essentially instructs Verisign to act unilaterally to cancel the domain name by deleting the registration information in the registry database and removing the domain name from the TLD zone file without regard to current registrar's lack of cooperation and the normal contractual procedures for cancellation (as per Verisign & Registrar agreements).
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If Bodog went down, You can go down too

Son, have u ever heard of bodog.com . Yep a multi billion dollar company, totally shut out of their domain.
Go ahead type bodog into your adress bar, really go ahead. Dullspace is a very knowledgeable domainer and i would appreciate the fact that he takes time to post here. :)

Rage9 said:
Dullspace you are a dumb fuck. I have personally never herd of this - doesn't mean it's not true, but prove it for fuck sakes. No Link = speculation. And even so doesn't mean verisign will get involved. Lots of money can be involved.

I have herd of others whom have transfered their names to say, a frech registrar, or whatnot where US interests could not touch them. Again, prove otherwise. I hear they exist.

Same thing goes for webspace. A US C&D will not hold up in another country.

Further more good luck suing you in AUS when the real problem is in the US. I'd doubt it would go that far.

Frankley unless I received a summons [and yes I have been sued before] I would do jack shit.

It's hard to sue someone outside the US, get it out of US control [like Russia] and proceed to not care.

Again prove me wrong. I may be wrong but show me for fuck sakes. Lot's of things are fucked up in the legal system.
Click to expand...
 
Hi, I am new here to the forum.

If you dont mind I will jump right in to this heated discussion.

If I were you I would listen to those who advice you to ask a lawyer, who is specialized in this kind of issues.

But my own opinion is that you knowingly use there product which they automaticly will have TM on (if it is registered then it look worse for you), and in a way where you earn money from it. You must think of it this way, THEY have branded this product and used money on promoting it, YOU just come by and use what THEY have used time and money on to earn for yourself, you dont even pay them % or anything, but just take advantages of their brand.

Even legal business partners pay either a % or a yearly fee to use a brand. So why do you think you are allowed and above the law, to just come and use a brand, without the company's acknowledgement?

The only time an use of a brand is allowed is if it is NON-commercial (as obvious yours are not, you earn money from their brand), if it is used in NON bad faith way.

If you still dont want to give up "your" domain, then you must think at, you can risk loosing not only the domain, but also be liable to pay a biiig amount of money to the company!

If you still are not convinced, then do your self a favor and at least search these two sites weither they actually have registered their TM or not:
For only US:
Trademark Electronic Search System (TESS)
For internationale:
Madrid Express (Trademarks) Search

And this link is to WIPO domain dispute search, try search here if there have been any issues with the product/brand before:
Search WIPO Cases and WIPO Panel Decisions

I hope you dont misunderstand, it is not to diss you, but help you I wrote this.

Best regards,
 
bb_wolfe said:
I thought they fell under the jurisdiction of ICANN (WIPO?) too. But whatever the case, a US C&D for a tiny little domain won't mean shit in Aussieville.
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Actually, thanks to the wonderful Howard era, and the marvelous FTA we were signed up to that basically rapes our economy, American civil actions can be enforced on Australian soil, should an international legal matter arise. Basically, their jurisdiction takes precedent over our own in matters of both criminal and civil law, unless our own federal police want to kick up a fuss so they can get some publicity...

rage9: Whilst I don't have a link either, the consensus on the domainer forums I frequent is that .coms and .nets are pretty much owned, part & parcel, by Verisign.
LordBrar would know better though, I'm sure.
 
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