anyone here been to Vietnam?

What I do like about Thailand is that the population actually isn't money grabbing jealous bastards and many don't harbor any ill will against those who are more fortunate. They also don't consider it demeaning to do service work for other people at a reasonably low wage. Where most of us are from, people would rather be on welfare than say 'Sir' or wash your clothes. Thais are not dirt poor at all and have decent social security in the form of health care, government univsersities and temples to feed them if needed. It's not like the Philipines where the poverty police is out to shake a few bucks.

But yeah, I did the math and the kind of lifestyle I'll want as a minimum when I move there the next year is at least going to cost me 100.000 baht a month, but that's with a 2 bed condo in Thong Lor and very comprehensive insurance. Still, it's not the condo which makes it worth it, but the fact that there's a very well functioning micro market for services, which means that whatever need I have, it's easily and quickly covered without any government involvment and no fat public worker to patronize me. That alone is worth it.

Uhm, what Thai people have you met? Seriously, your first paragraph is so far off that if I showed it to 1000 expats living in Thailand and asked them to name the country you're referring to they would never guess Thailand.

It would be like me saying I just came back from a trip to Dubai and I found that the men had a dislike of facial hair. Or, I was just in Germany but didn't buy anything because the workmanship of locally made products was shoddy.

In Thailand, jealousy and greed are the national sports. Laziness is an acknowledged part of the culture.
 


In Thailand, jealousy and greed are the national sports. Laziness is an acknowledged part of the culture.

Pardon me for saying so, but I find greed and jealosy much more rampant in countries which tax people +50%. That's basically institutionalized greed.
 
Pardon me for saying so, but I find greed and jealosy much more rampant in countries which tax people +50%. That's basically institutionalized greed.

But come on, even Thais will admit that greed is a big part of the culture.

There may be places with worse greed. But that doesn't mean that greed doesn't exist in Thailand.

It's sort of like during Dec and Jan in Thailand when it dips down into the mid-80's and people (mostly Thais) say that it's cold. No, it's not cold. It's just less hot.
 
Well, you can live pretty damn good in North America on $50k/year if you have a home and a car too.
He meant 50K a life time, not a year :D Thailand and Vietnam are cheap. It would be great to earn money somewhere in the USA but spend them there ...
 
He meant 50K a life time, not a year :D Thailand and Vietnam are cheap. It would be great to earn money somewhere in the USA but spend them there ...

Tempted to neg. Have you heard about this thing called the internet?
 
But come on, even Thais will admit that greed is a big part of the culture.

There may be places with worse greed. But that doesn't mean that greed doesn't exist in Thailand.

It's sort of like during Dec and Jan in Thailand when it dips down into the mid-80's and people (mostly Thais) say that it's cold. No, it's not cold. It's just less hot.

I don't know bro. Most taxi drivers take you where you want to go for a pittance. Maids clean rooms and never steal. Your food lady will still sell you at 30 baht. 7-11 workers running after you because you forgot the change. I've always found the vast majority of Thais to be honest to a fault and hardworking, though they do like to sleep and gossip, but who wouldn't with their low salaries.

Most of the Thais I've met outside the expat/tourist trade have always been exceptionally friendly and helpful. They're status conscious for sure, but really didn't strike me as greedy.

In general, sometimes when I read blogs/forums about Thailand I feel like I've lived in a different country since I don't meet all these horrible people that supposedly are there everywhere.
 
Tempted to neg. Have you heard about this thing called the internet?
By the way, that guy called internet told me that people in North Korea have an average salary of 5 euros. Ongoes that they can survive on this money.
P.S. I forgot to ask him about Vietnam though...
 
In general, sometimes when I read blogs/forums about Thailand I feel like I've lived in a different country since I don't meet all these horrible people that supposedly are there everywhere.
That's exactly how I feel about it too. I married a Thai and her family is extremely HiSo, so I never see any of that stuff.

Nope, never been to Patpong... Doubt I'll ever get to see it once I move in fully, too. :(

Even when doing touristy stuff, all I see are people eager to please, all over the country. It obviously matters a lot the kind of company you keep. The more I hear about daggers behind the smiles the more I just have to laugh. I may be a walking wallet to some of them, but they'll never show it in any way imaginable.


How much did it cost you guys to move to southeast asia?
I'd like to hear the answer to this too. I'm currently deciding what to take and the freight shipping service quotes all want my first-born so far...
 
I'm currently deciding what to take and the freight shipping service quotes all want my first-born so far...

If you think the freight is bad, you may want to check what you have that Thailand deems a "luxury item", because that'll be subject to import tax, and all depending that can be up to 280% of purchase price. Not to mention the customary bribe you have to give the customs officials, so they don't hold your stuff for several months.

You might be better off just bringing your clothes, and buying while you're here. Maybe get a furnished house instead, or if you get unfurnished, furniture will be around the same price as the US. Electronics will be more expensive though, and for example, a PS3 here costs about $600, whereas in Canada I can get one for $250.

Or for another example, 32" plasma TV, Samsung, and of the lower-end (ie. doesn't even have HDMI support) cost me about $300. I just wanted one for my office to play Playstation with. I don't know what you pay in the US, but I'm guessing it's cheaper.
 
I don't know bro. Most taxi drivers take you where you want to go for a pittance. Maids clean rooms and never steal. Your food lady will still sell you at 30 baht. 7-11 workers running after you because you forgot the change. I've always found the vast majority of Thais to be honest to a fault and hardworking, though they do like to sleep and gossip, but who wouldn't with their low salaries.

The taxi fares are set by the government so I don't know why you would think that a guy doing his job is cutting you a break.

And it's not him that I'm talking about. It's the dickwad who parks out in front of your hotel and offers to take you to the airport or Grand Palace for a negotiated fare that's 500% above the meter rate.

Maids don't steal because it's pretty obvious who stole. Actually many do steal, just like anywhere else in the world but that's beside the point.

And the food lady charges what she thinks she can get away with. If the customers are primarily Thai, even hi-so Thai, they charge less than if they're in a neighborhood full of farangs.

But what about . . . .

The asshats out in front of the Grand Palace telling visitors that it's closed and you should go to another temple they recommend?

The jetski scammers in Pattaya and Phuket?

The gem scam?

What about the bill padding? (And don't tell me it's only in tourist areas. Go have a meal with any Thai and watch them pour over the bill like they're doing forensic accounting because bill padding is rampant in Thailand).

The tuk-tuk driver who offers you some ridiculously low price for a ride and then forces you to go into a suit shop so he can get gas coupons?

What about the girls who drug their customers and clean out their hotel room?

What about the woman who got fed up of waiting for her farang husband to die and had her brothers kill him and then cook his body?

Or just open the local newspaper. Other than the Sports section, it's just one long tale of greed and corruption.

I mean, this is a country where they have a corruption index. They poll large corporations about how much they have to pad their government contracts to cover all of the kickbacks. This is published in the newspaper like the fricking weather!

Or ask any Thai female if she's ever had trouble with a taxi driver. I would estimate that 30% - 40% of the girls I've spoken with has had a near-rape experience with those kindly taxi drivers.

Or the fact that an international corruption panel labeled the Thai police force as one of the world's largest organized crime organizations?

I could keep going for pages.

The point is that you seem to be in the "Thai people are lovely, caring people state." People go through phases with Thailand. I did. Everyone I know has.

But sooner or later, once the charm wears off, it starts to get to you. I tell my wife that it's not the being ripped off that I mind so much, it's the fact that it's like Chinese water torture. It's the constant nickel and diming.

That's not to say all Thai people are bad. There are tons of really honest folks. But the fact of the matter is that Thailand is a poor country. And poverty generally breeds dishonesty.

You also have a culture where corruption and dishonesty are really just part of day to day life. Newspapers publicly report what the going rate for buying your vote is based on what provence you live in. Every six months or so they do a poll and every poll comes back that more than 50% of Thais say they have no problem with corruption as long as they derive some benefit from it.

They simply have a totally different frame of reference when it comes to honesty.

You should see my wife living in the US. She can't believe cops actually try to do their job. They can't be bribed. What a concept!!

She's wowed with not just the honesty of merchants, government officials, etc but with our blind trust in those people.

In general, sometimes when I read blogs/forums about Thailand I feel like I've lived in a different country since I don't meet all these horrible people that supposedly are there everywhere.

Like I said, it's a phase. I went through it. Everyone I know has been through it.

I had been going to Thailand on and off for probably around 6 or so years before I moved there. Most of my trips ranged between 2 and 3 weeks but a few extended to 3+ months.

When I moved to Thailand, I was a lot like you. I couldn't believe the venom that some expats had for Thais.

But the longer I lived there, the more I could see what they were talking about. The more I understood and could read and write in Thai the more I got it. The more I picked up on cultural subtleties the more I realized what was really going on.

I was one of those guys who used to mock the expats who would complain about being ripped off for .30 here and there. But after you live there and it's happening day in and day out, it becomes annoying. You feel like you constantly have to be on your guard.

It really gnawed at me for a long time. I didn't want to feel that way.

When we move back in a few years, both my wife and I have agreed that we're not moving back to BKK or any major city in Thailand. In fact, my wife is the one suggesting maybe finding a different country. She's fed up with the greed and corruption in Thailand as well.
 
The taxi fares are set by the government so I don't know why you would think that a guy doing his job is cutting you a break.

And it's not him that I'm talking about. It's the dickwad who parks out in front of your hotel and offers to take you to the airport or Grand Palace for a negotiated fare that's 500% above the meter rate.

Maids don't steal because it's pretty obvious who stole. Actually many do steal, just like anywhere else in the world but that's beside the point.

And the food lady charges what she thinks she can get away with. If the customers are primarily Thai, even hi-so Thai, they charge less than if they're in a neighborhood full of farangs.

But what about . . . .

The asshats out in front of the Grand Palace telling visitors that it's closed and you should go to another temple they recommend?

The jetski scammers in Pattaya and Phuket?

The gem scam?

What about the bill padding? (And don't tell me it's only in tourist areas. Go have a meal with any Thai and watch them pour over the bill like they're doing forensic accounting because bill padding is rampant in Thailand).

The tuk-tuk driver who offers you some ridiculously low price for a ride and then forces you to go into a suit shop so he can get gas coupons?

What about the girls who drug their customers and clean out their hotel room?

What about the woman who got fed up of waiting for her farang husband to die and had her brothers kill him and then cook his body?

Or just open the local newspaper. Other than the Sports section, it's just one long tale of greed and corruption.

I mean, this is a country where they have a corruption index. They poll large corporations about how much they have to pad their government contracts to cover all of the kickbacks. This is published in the newspaper like the fricking weather!

Or ask any Thai female if she's ever had trouble with a taxi driver. I would estimate that 30% - 40% of the girls I've spoken with has had a near-rape experience with those kindly taxi drivers.

Or the fact that an international corruption panel labeled the Thai police force as one of the world's largest organized crime organizations?

I could keep going for pages.

Why you hating on my hustle, bro? :D

frabz-bitch-Im-on-tha-grind-i-hustle-everyday-69dc4a.jpg
 
thefarang, but 90% of what you mentioned is tourism related. You have the Grand Palace, food stalls in farang neighborhoods, jet skis in Pattaya and Phuket, gem scam, hookers drugging their customers, tuk-tuk drivers talking you on a shopping trip, and so on. That's ALL tourism related.

I'll give you the bill padding, as that is rampant, regardless if you're Thai or farang. However, if you think it's bad here, go live in Eastern Europe for a while. It's MUCH worse there.

Same with the scams. If you think it's bad here, go stay in Barbados for a couple months, and don't just stay in your 5 star resort. Know the movie The Game where Micheal Douglas gets so mind fucked he doesn't know what's real and what isn't? That's Barbados.

I know what you mean and all, but don't think it's as bad as you make it out to be. Again, get out of the tourist and expat areas, and you'll be fine.
 
My experiences and TheFarang are pretty much the same...I went through the phase as well and now im way more realistic as to what happens and where I fit into the scheme of things and I I dont believe that its only the tourist oriented areas.

Cheers
 
I know what you mean and all, but don't think it's as bad as you make it out to be. Again, get out of the tourist and expat areas, and you'll be fine.

Like I said earlier, I do get out upcountry quite a bit. But, in giving advice to someone who would be relatively new (or completely new) to Thailand, I don't think you can just tell them to get out of the tourist areas.

Thai isn't an easy language nor is English widely spoken in Thailand. Hell, it's not even widely spoken in Bangkok. Try finding someone who speaks English out in the sticks. :-)

But the bigger point is that wherever we go, the scammers will follow. Unless you look Thai, the farther away you get from the tourist areas, the more you're going to stick out like a sore thumb.

And it wasn't 90% tourist area stuff. I could post a page of examples of Thai on Thai scamming. I could list half the articles in the Bangkok Post.

In fact, here's the top stories in the Local News section of the Bangkok Post at the moment.

Court rejects rice scheme appeal (the rice scheme is rife with corruption - the government has already purchased more rice than could physically be produced within the country at prices up to 30% above market)

Advertisers mull pulling support for Sorayuth
Advertisers who support news anchor Sorayuth Suthassanachinda's news programmes are talking about withdrawing their support as long as he remains on air at Channel 3 while facing embezzlement allegations.

DSI to probe skytrain deal, flood relief donations cases
The Department of Special Investigation (DSI) has agreed to take up eight special cases, including the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration's (BMA) skytrain extension deal and East Water Group's flood relief donations through the Democrat Party.

No more iPhones for officials, says NBTC
The National Broadcasting and Telecommunications Commission (NBTC) has revamped its ethics code, barring commissioners from receiving communication devices such as iPhones and iPads as gifts.

That's just on the first page. And that's EVERY damned day! Tomorrow there will be a whole fresh batch of news about corruption, graft, and insider dealings.

And don't even get me started on sheer incompetence. Teachers who teach English but can't speak the language. People who insist that there are 336 days in a year (4 weeks x 12 months x 7 days = 336). People who deal with numbers all day who can't do simple math.

But, I do want to make it clear, I don't think all Thais are like this. I have helped raise thousands of dollars for orphanages in Thailand. I have even supported individual families that have been hit by hard times.

I know plenty of good, honest, hard-working Thais. It's the other people I have a problem with. And those other people are the people you will most likely end up meeting and having to deal with on a day to day basis in Thailand. Or worse, at government offices or major corporations where they can throw their power around.
 
My experiences and TheFarang are pretty much the same...I went through the phase as well and now im way more realistic as to what happens and where I fit into the scheme of things and I I dont believe that its only the tourist oriented areas.

Cheers

Exactly. As long as you know what to expect, it's fine.

I just think that people are done a disservice when they're told that Thais are these happy, good-hearted people. You go there thinking that and they'll strip you clean like an abandoned vehicle in a bad neighborhood.

And one more point in response to Kiopa_Matt, being better than Barbados or somewhere else does not make people honest. Just like it being ONLY 80 degrees in December does not make Thailand cold in December. It's just less hot.
 
Thai isn't an easy language nor is English widely spoken in Thailand. Hell, it's not even widely spoken in Bangkok. Try finding someone who speaks English out in the sticks. :-)

True enough. It's especially a piss off when you spend your time learning Thai, then move up here, and find out they don't even speak Thai! It's a mixture of Laos and Thai.


In fact, here's the top stories in the Local News section of the Bangkok Post at the moment.

Court rejects rice scheme appeal (the rice scheme is rife with corruption - the government has already purchased more rice than could physically be produced within the country at prices up to 30% above market)

.....

Pfizer. That one word is all I need to say, as it puts all government based corruption in Thailand to total shame, as if the Thais can't even get corruption right. Or you could always continue on with Halliburton, Goldman Sachs, and dozens of other US based companies.

Again, this relates to what I said on the 1st page. It's expat's skewed perception of reality. It's a new country for us, so for whatever reason expats take every bad detail they can find, and magnify it, as if their home countries are better or something. Just like how you quoted about the politicians getting free iPhones and iPads as gifts, as if it's some travesty or something. Big fucken deal. Bit different than getting a piece of a multi-billion dollar contract to push the invasion of a country forward in parliament, wouldn't you say?

Again, I know what you mean and all, but just think you're making a mountain out of a mole hill. Yes, there's lots of scams in the tourist areas, but that's true for every single poorer country in the world. Scammers simply gravitate towards those areas.

I'll agree though, if you live here, you will more than likely learn how to be firmer than your home country. You have to be. However, once you get it down, and a small group of Thais who'll watch your back for you, then you're fine.
 
True enough. It's especially a piss off when you spend your time learning Thai, then move up here, and find out they don't even speak Thai! It's a mixture of Laos and Thai.

LOL. Yes. :-)

Best part is if you're talking to some girl and she starts talking in Thai with her friend, if you act like you understand Thai, they switch to Issan (Lao/Thai).

Like the man said, never give a sucker an even break :-)

Pfizer. That one word is all I need to say, as it puts all government based corruption in Thailand to total shame, as if the Thais can't even get corruption right. Or you could always continue on with Halliburton, Goldman Sachs, and dozens of other US based companies.

Again, this relates to what I said on the 1st page. It's expat's skewed perception of reality. It's a new country for us, so for whatever reason expats take every bad detail they can find, and magnify it, as if their home countries are better or something. Just like how you quoted about the politicians getting free iPhones and iPads as gifts, as if it's some travesty or something. Big fucken deal. Bit different than getting a piece of a multi-billion dollar contract to push the invasion of a country forward in parliament, wouldn't you say?

Again, I know what you mean and all, but just think you're making a mountain out of a mole hill. Yes, there's lots of scams in the tourist areas, but that's true for every single poorer country in the world. Scammers simply gravitate towards those areas.

I'll agree though, if you live here, you will more than likely learn how to be firmer than your home country. You have to be. However, once you get it down, and a small group of Thais who'll watch your back for you, then you're fine.

Well, I'm not sure if that's a great comparison. There's a difference between a company like Pfizer who decides what to work on or not based on how much money they'll make and cops who openly take bribes. In fact, you're seldom even offered the option of paying the real fine. You're just asked for 200 baht and you can go on your way.

I think the problem is that most Thai corruption hits you on a personal level. Like I had a Thai friend who's brother was murdered. The police demanded 100,000 baht to investigate the crime.

Or you try to open a business and the police sell the sidewalk space in front of your shop to some noodle lady meaning that you get less foot traffic.

Or you pay a little bribe to the fire inspector and they decide not to inspect your business and a fire breaks out one night killing dozens of people (Santika, New Year's Eve).

Or, as someone mentioned earlier in this thread, you pay custom's duties plus a bribe to get your goods into the country.

Or, you just accept that you can't send anything of value via the post because it'll just get ripped off by the postal service.

These aren't tourist problems. These aren't even just farang problems.

These aren't mountain out of a molehill things. If you've never paid bribes before, if you believe in things like the rule of law, equality under the law, or any other foolish notion of what a civilized society acts like, Thailand is a huge eye opener.

The Phases of Thai Indoctrination:

Phase 1: This play f'ing rocks!!!! Everything is cheap. Girls are hot. The people are so nice. I want to go home sell everything I own and move here.

Phase 2: Well, things aren't as great as I thought they were. Yeah, most of the girls are just after my money but I've learned their tricks so I'm cool. And, not every Thai that smiles at you actually means it but, all in all, they're pretty good people. Still love living here.

Phase 3: F'ing Thais. Lying, cheating, stealing bastards. The entire country is a scam. But, I'd rather deal with that than go back home.

Phase 4: Well, all things considered, things are pretty good here. I stay clear of the cheats, bar girls, and scumbags. If you understand the culture it's not that bad. Thai people are generally good people. I speak a little Thai, wai every waitress, and read a book on Buddhism.

Phase 5: Thai culture is bullshit. It's all about controlling the people by keeping them uneducated and dependent on the government. I feel sorry for the Thai people.

Phase 6: Thais deserve what they get. When given a choice, they keep picking the biggest crooks who ever ran for political office.

Phase 7: Screw it. It's not my country. Why do I even give a shit?

Phase 8: Thailand is what it is. I take advantage of the parts that benefit me and I avoid the parts that take advantage of me. I've finally figured out how to make the system work for me.

Phase 9: Thailand is what it is. I've finally accepted that I have no idea how Thai culture works. I accept that I have to deal with some bullshit in order to live this lifestyle. Not too different from back home except the bullshit is different.

Phase 10: ????