Cops Kill Black Man, Caught On Tape

infoslob said:
I'm glad you brought up Rye.

My guess is that, commercially, most (95+%? 100%?) of cigarettes sold in Rye paid NY state tax. (Unless a cigarette wholesaler/distributor supplying outlets in Rye has a gargantuan scheme of its own - but you understand my original point). Reputable restaurants in NY definitely do NOT sell untaxed cigarettes because the risk/reward ratio lopsided in enforcement's favor - the crime is not worth the time. I know two Long Island bar/restaurants that were done in for this very transgression without the owner knowing - bartenders hit tribal outlets to buy untaxed cigs and sell them over the counter while at work.

Now, I2E: How long will someone last "hustling" cigarettes on a Rye sidewalk - offering wares to strangers? Forget days or hours - that hustler will be accosted by police in 15 minutes. Hopefully the offender will realize the stupidity of his ways and not make it worse for himself by interfering with police work. And if he fails to clear that low bar of basic civic accountability - well, I won't weep at his funeral.

In towns/areas like Rye compliance of these laws represent the tip of the "broken windows" theory - a quality of life for residents and local institutions.

But I'm sure Al Sharpton must be touched a healthy swath of neckbeardom is backing his inane bullshit.
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I think I get your point, and I might agree.

Can I ask if this would be a good analogy, I think it captures the idea that we need to have strong unity through law and order, please correct me if I'm wrong:

Strength through unity: a single rod is easily broken, while the bundle is difficult to break
 


IceToEskimos said:
No, my point is that places in Westchester are selling smuggled cigs, and it's not indicative of a downward trend in the town of Rye.

It is indicative of the state incentivizing "smuggling" through exorbitant taxation though...
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What's amazing is that governments still haven't figured out that banning or over taxing anything facilitates a black market and generally worsens the problem. Alcoholism only became a problem when Prohibition was enacted, and mafiosos made their living by shaking down small shop owners before they struck gold with bootlegging.

It's all a thinly veiled money grab anyway. New York started taxing the shit out of cigarettes, and the free market responded with E-cigs. So what does New York do now that the citizens are choosing a safer/healthier alternative? They impose the same cigarette bans on E-cigs citing a bullshit ambiguous study about the potential harm of vaping, proving that the health of NY residents was never their primary concern.
 
who remembers these gays? [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G68UmLMO7CY"]SFPD Ruthlessly Shoots and Kills Unarmed 19yr old Man over $2 Bus Fare - YouTube[/ame]
 
What's amazing is that you want to be smarter so bad, anyone who does something you don't approve of must be doing it because he doesn't know better, instead of maybe just furthering his own agenda.

Governments around the world installed progressive income tax and inflation. Do you think that was a fluke or a short term money grab? Do you think governments care about falling economies or lost houses? If their money fails they get rid of it and install a new one instead. Doesn't matter whether Luke thinks that's an option. The poorer you are, the more power they've got. You don't know math? You think they care? You're more stupid, you can't see through their lies, all the better. If they need someone to calculate really hard, there's a machine that does all that.

Go start another thread about government "stupidity"
 
infoslob said:
Hopefully the offender will realize the stupidity of his ways and not make it worse for himself by interfering with police work. And if he fails to clear that low bar of basic civic accountability - well, I won't weep at his funeral.
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I agree. It's not very smart to constantly antagonize a group of insecure and highly armed costumed thugs. It's not smart. It's like Adam Kokesh filming himself locking and loading a shotgun in D.C. The acts themselves are not immoral, but when you literally live in an open-aired prison like the USSA, these aren't things you do if you value your so called "freedom" and life.

More people should just BEHAVE!11 Because uh, quality of life for residents and uhm, politicians know what's best for us?
 
nickster said:
I have no love for the cops and I do believe that like politicians most cops get into the job for the power trip. However the laws are there to protect you and the cops are there to enforce them. You don't like the laws then get them changed. But the laws should also apply to the cops as well and in sentencing they should get harsher punishment for breaking them (as they are in a position of trust).
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You really believe that selling cigarettes without paying tax is a law meant to protect me? How exactly does that protect me?

Worth noting too that not cooperating with his own kidnapping and extortion (arrest) is not the same as fighting or being violent. Albeit, he likely knew the consequence of his action would ultimately result in his would be arrest. I'm quite certain though, the dude didn't know that he would be murdered as a result.
 
music4mic said:
You really believe that selling cigarettes without paying tax is a law meant to protect me? How exactly does that protect me?
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It doesn't. "Laws are there to protect you" are just one of many phrases that are continually espoused by cops to justify their bullshit behavior.

Consequently, so is "You don't like the laws then get them changed". I've had 2 different cops on 2 different occasions respond with that recently. Hey Nickster, I don't like many laws. But how can I single handedly get them changed? Oh that's right, I can't. I have to rely on this ridiculously flawed concept of might makes right, majority rules, and that if 51% disagree, then 100% must abide by their decision. It also doesn't help that the majority of people are fucking stupid.

Police are trained literally to act like robots. It doesn't matter what the law is, if it's a law, they'll enforce it no matter what. Just like the military. You follow your orders and shut the fuck up.

It's a really good tactic if you're a government, (cue Godwin's law), it enabled thousands of humans to shove other humans in ovens and gas chambers. "Hey maaan!! I'm Just following orders! I did nothin' wrong!"

God forbid we have police officers with moral compasses who can think for themselves.
 
Debates about laws tend to focus on whether existing laws are practical, necessary, moral, and just. Every debate becomes a rabbit hole since definitions vary. What is moral to you is immoral to me. What is practical and necessary to you is impractical and unnecessary to me.

What if we attacked the issue from the opposite end?

Suppose all of us shared a neighborhood. There is no democracy. There is no government. There is only us.

How might a community such as this evolve? What system of law might arise?

It would be a fun thought experiment. Building a system of law from the ground up - sans democracy, sans government - makes 99% of our current laws seem silly. :)
 
music4mic said:
Worth noting too that not cooperating with his own kidnapping and extortion (arrest) is not the same as fighting or being violent.
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It's also worth noting that getting arrested is not the same as kidnapping and extortion, at least to those who are not black panthers. Or neckbeards.
 
infoslob said:
It's also worth noting that getting arrested is not the same as kidnapping and extortion, at least to those who are not black panthers. Or neckbeards.
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I think I get your point, and I might agree.

Can I ask if this would be a good analogy? I think it captures the idea that we need to have strong unity through law and order, please correct me if I'm wrong:

Strength through unity: a single rod is easily broken, while the bundle is difficult to break
 
dreamache said:
It doesn't. "Laws are there to protect you" are just one of many phrases that are continually espoused by cops to justify their bullshit behavior.
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All police want is less hours, less work, and more pay.

Do you really think some 3rd year officer wanted to walk around a hot humid to bust cigarette scofflaws in order to further empower and enrich the statist infrastructure? The neckbeard does.

Or perhaps that, in the course of a routine arrest, an officer saw a slim window to murder someone and took it? The Black Panther does.
 
And that cope guy was already notorious for misconducts. City paid $30K to settle one of those lawsuits against him.

City paid out $30K to settle 2012 lawsuit against chokehold cop Daniel Pantaleo | SILive.com

One of the two civil rights lawsuits against Daniel Pantaleo, the NYPD officer who put Eric Garner in a chokehold Thursday, ended up costing taxpayers $30,000 in settlement money, according to the plaintiffs' attorney.

The suit, which was settled in January, accuses Pantaleo and another officer of strip-searching two men on a New Brighton street, pulling down their pants and underwear in broad daylight, in March 2012.
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Pantaleo Has Been Accused of Misconduct Before -- NYMag
 
JakeStratham said:
Debates about laws tend to focus on whether existing laws are practical, necessary, moral, and just. Every debate becomes a rabbit hole since definitions vary. What is moral to you is immoral to me. What is practical and necessary to you is impractical and unnecessary to me.

What if we attacked the issue from the opposite end?

Suppose all of us shared a neighborhood. There is no democracy. There is no government. There is only us.

How might a community such as this evolve? What system of law might arise?

It would be a fun thought experiment. Building a system of law from the ground up - sans democracy, sans government - makes 99% of our current laws seem silly. :)
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So you either go with some Form of democracy or have a bloody struggle for power. Not too many novelty options out there.
 
dreamache said:
It doesn't matter what the law is, if it's a law, they'll enforce it no matter what.
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infoslob said:
All police want is less hours, less work, and more pay.

Do you really think some 3rd year officer wanted to walk around a hot humid to bust cigarette scofflaws in order to further empower and enrich the statist infrastructure? The neckbeard does.

Or perhaps that, in the course of a routine arrest, an officer saw a slim window to murder someone and took it? The Black Panther does.
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A man gets killed. By a police officer. Another dozen police officers stands by just in case the victim resists a bit more.

Do you think he should just go to jail for unjust interrogation? A retard does.

Do you think he deserved to die..

Because he was black? A Nazi does

Because he screwed tax mongers? A hypocrite does

Because he resisted police? A future riot casualty does
 
notwayne said:
Give me options, I'm legitimately curious.

If you want to have interesting conversations, you need to take bait, not try to be smart about these stupid "fallacies". You're better than that.
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Democracy is a shitty system whereby the rights of the minority are subject to the whim of the majority.

David Friedman has written extensively about what an ancap society might look like, and if you're geniunely interested, you can read some of his ideas here.

He gets wonky in a few spots, but generally his ideas about private law and conflict resolution in the absense of big daddy .gov are good.
 
Let's say I've read some of that material. Or something similar. I've read locke. You need to explain why something like your ancap dreams don't exist in the present. Would it not be correct to assume that such societies would be easily dismantled By foreign military Invasion?

Get to the interesting stuff. It's difficult to have such thought experiments that take place in a utopia bubble. I don't care for democracy any more than you do, but wishful thinking won't get you something that differs in major ways from prehistoric, ancient, medieval, renaissance or modern civilizations. There will always be elites. The rich. Money buys power. How do you want to prevent the inherent struggle for power from going to work. Your an cap has no control mechanism. At what point will your an cap society turn into quasi oligarchy and are you cool with that?
 
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