I'm not lobbying for $15, but it sounds like you're convinced that $7.25 is the right number. Is that just because it's the current minimum, or are you against minimum wages altogether?
Fight For 15
- Thread starter JakeStratham
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I'm not lobbying for $15, but it sounds like you're convinced that $7.25 is the right number. Is that just because it's the current minimum, or are you against minimum wages altogether?
Hard for us to understand. It's a cultural thing as much as it is anything else though. Speaking to my mates (American) wife gave me the best insight (which wasn't that insightful) but, basically boiled down to: "That's how we do things over here.. Accept it.. Tip and move on..."
The thing I did find funny was that Americans are proud of the fact they pay less taxes, but on the whole remain blind to the fact that what they don't pay in taxes they pay in other ways, often more so than a Brit would (doesn't necessarily apply Europe-wide.) For example: Registration fee vs Road tax, toll roads, private medical, TV etc...
Also, property taxes Vs. council tax: I gather that the landlord is liable in the States for property tax (regardless of whether that cost is then factored into the rental price) whereas the tenant pays council tax here. At least that also gets our refuse cleared though.
It's just a different mentality. They have their own unique socio-economic issues as we do. Spain and the UK are hardly a beacon of light economically speaking.. lol.
But yeah, in places with inflated-wages such as Seattle, it *could* work: Why not? Dunno bout the other places. That's the beauty of your federal/state system, is it not?
I'm actually against minimum wages. As most people are on this board, I'm guessing. I haven't employed a Virtual Assistant, but I'm guessing their prices are a hell of a lot cheaper than minimum wage.
What's the difference then for McDonalds and others? Why should they be forced to pay a minimum if they can get that labor cheaper? As we're all predicting, those jobs, once $15/hr happens, will go away with computers and robotics. So is it worth it?
There's irony in raising the minimum wage. It's a popular notion among the proletariat. But each hike threatens those whose level of productivity is below the minimum.
It would be foolish for an employer to hire a worker for $15 an hour when her productivity is worth $14.99 to him.
I'm all for a minimum wage. Make the minimum wage $15 per hour, and then get rid of welfare, food stamps, and all the other bullshit.
It would cut down on a lot of needless government spending, and help put more money in the hands of the least educated people.
Poor people with more money = more money made off of poor people = pretty good time for marketers.
It would cut down on a lot of needless government spending, and help put more money in the hands of the least educated people.
Poor people with more money = more money made off of poor people = pretty good time for marketers.
More pics, this time from NYC (I'd hate to be that McD's franchisee).
It's incendiary rhetoric like this that gets the "Fight For 15" folks lathered up...
Low Wages Cost U.S. Taxpayers $152.8 Billion Each Year in Public Support for Working Families
It's incendiary rhetoric like this that gets the "Fight For 15" folks lathered up...
Low Wages Cost U.S. Taxpayers $152.8 Billion Each Year in Public Support for Working Families
I remember working at McDonalds when I was a kid. Do you have any idea how utterly fucking retarded you have to be to screw that job up?
You literally close the lid on buns or meat, and it will magically pop open for you again after X seconds. You don't even have to think. Put the patties on the grill, close the lid, and shortly later it will pop open will freshly cooked patties ready for a Big Mac.
Considering I currently have software developers on the payroll for a simple $30/hour, I can't possibly see how flipping burgers can be worth $15/hour.
You literally close the lid on buns or meat, and it will magically pop open for you again after X seconds. You don't even have to think. Put the patties on the grill, close the lid, and shortly later it will pop open will freshly cooked patties ready for a Big Mac.
Considering I currently have software developers on the payroll for a simple $30/hour, I can't possibly see how flipping burgers can be worth $15/hour.
"Low Wages Cost U.S. Taxpayers $152.8 Billion Each Year in Public Support for Working Families"
Funny you never see a headline like this:
"Sheeple pay over $200 billion a year in interest to IRS on nothing but debt because they prefer slavery by proxy. No services are received. No products. Just straight interest to an entity that does nothing but charge us to take our money."
We're living in a world littered with cavemen and monkeys. Is it any wonder why the wealthiest people in the world absolutely rape humanity?
Funny you never see a headline like this:
"Sheeple pay over $200 billion a year in interest to IRS on nothing but debt because they prefer slavery by proxy. No services are received. No products. Just straight interest to an entity that does nothing but charge us to take our money."
We're living in a world littered with cavemen and monkeys. Is it any wonder why the wealthiest people in the world absolutely rape humanity?
Even before this we had the highest min wage in the nation, AND unlike other states, even if you make tips you get the full min wage at $9.50+/hr plus tips. And everything is expensive so the tips are good...you can make $60k-$70k as a server.
Most jobs already pay $15 or more in the city because of the cost of living. This is a list of occupations in the city and hourly rates: Seattle-Bellevue-Everett, WA Metropolitan Division - May 2014 OES Metropolitan and Nonmetropolitan Area Occupational Employment and Wage Estimates
Businesses also have to pay excise taxes on GROSS income in Seattle so your low pay, low skill job-based companies are in other parts of the state....
Most jobs already pay $15 or more in the city because of the cost of living. This is a list of occupations in the city and hourly rates: Seattle-Bellevue-Everett, WA Metropolitan Division - May 2014 OES Metropolitan and Nonmetropolitan Area Occupational Employment and Wage Estimates
Businesses also have to pay excise taxes on GROSS income in Seattle so your low pay, low skill job-based companies are in other parts of the state....
Something I have been pondering a lot lately.
The country I was born in actively discourages classism but the country I live in actively encourages it.
It's been an interesting insight in to how people view the world.
When I first moved, I would talk to people who would literally say things like "My family is rich, I was born with money, I'm better than most people".
This always struck me as retarded thinking, since no one has a choice in who their parents are, so essentially these people just won the genetic lottery.
But the more I look at how people behave I'm not sure that their attitude is completely retarded.
Someone in their family at some point had to have the skills and the determination to make the money their family now has, as opposed to everyone else who didn't, for whatever reason.
When people start protesting minimum wage without any thought to the consequences, I can understand why there are people who view themselves as superior and view the protestors as moronic sheeple no better than cogs in a machine.
Most people have worked a shit job some time in their life and I'm no exception.
But at no point when I worked the shit job for shit pay did I think "Let's force the company I work for to pay me more money."
The only thing I ever thought was "This job is shit, I need better skills so I don't have to do this shit job anymore."
As has already been pointed out in this thread, entry level jobs are just stepping stones, nothing more.
They are not meant to be careers and yet these people want to hold everyone accountable for their bad choices.
I'm sorry you fucked up your life and now have to work a shit job for shit pay while barely being able to pay rent, but I'll have a Big Mac with Fries and a Coke.
I do not understand one thing though. What kind of an employee you need to be to work in McDonalds for more than 3-5 years on minimum wage? With their fast track management programs, free internal schools etc etc.
After 3 years you should be at least supervisor with all the pros and bonuses.
Not sure about US but in EU when you work in McDonalds or any other corpo like this the track to management positions are wide open and employees are always encouraged to go for it. My friend became some kind of supervisor in Mc after like 1,5 years working his ass off. Maybe rise in money was not that big, but he was picking hours, he could take some overtimes whenever he wanted and work only on specific days/hours no problem. After all of this he was bringing cool money home since he would work his ass off for 4 days and then took 3 days off.
After 3 years you should be at least supervisor with all the pros and bonuses.
Not sure about US but in EU when you work in McDonalds or any other corpo like this the track to management positions are wide open and employees are always encouraged to go for it. My friend became some kind of supervisor in Mc after like 1,5 years working his ass off. Maybe rise in money was not that big, but he was picking hours, he could take some overtimes whenever he wanted and work only on specific days/hours no problem. After all of this he was bringing cool money home since he would work his ass off for 4 days and then took 3 days off.
I witnessed one of these "protests" yesterday, by museum workers in front of Holyrood (Scottish parliament). It was a maximum of 40 people, who quietly stood talking, were handed some flags, took some photos for their website or newsletter, and left.
The only people that noticed were me and them. No politician cared, there was no media, it's just to make them feel good, and to make them feel like they have control over their situation, when in reality their pay is controlled by people they have no connection to, and can never influence.
While I was watching them, I gained 3 new customers.
The only people that noticed were me and them. No politician cared, there was no media, it's just to make them feel good, and to make them feel like they have control over their situation, when in reality their pay is controlled by people they have no connection to, and can never influence.
While I was watching them, I gained 3 new customers.
Fun stuff...
McDonald's is all for higher minimum wages, but not on a level playing field, only with institutionalized violence on their side. Similar to why they support the Affordable Healthcare Act.
McDonald
Why? Because they can afford it. Joe's Burger can't - and killing competition with the violence of the state on their side is one of the most profitable moves they can make.
Wal-Mart is also a strong supporter.
Wal-Mart Says It Won't Oppose Increase in Minimum Wage - WSJ
But it's really no surprise, both companies thrive off of state support, they're killing competitors and thriving off of private prison labor, paying workers around .90 a day. Slave labor for those in bed with the state. Impossible barriers to entry for the surfs.
http://atlantablackstar.com/2014/10...enefiting-from-the-prison-industrial-complex/
Teachers are banking on the fact that private prisons will hit their quota and imprison a high-percentage of todays kids for future slave labor. (I'm not suggesting that teachers understand this, but they're heavily invested as well as the majority of the US).
Who
I don't have time to get into details. Minimum wage kills jobs, where do those jobs go? Prison? The military? The state?
The problem here has nothing to do with "fair wages". It has to do with economic ignorance.
It's about creating lemmings that gratefully march off to become cattle to slaughter for profit. Or slaves, whether that's forced labor for non-crimes or getting "lucky" and only spending half of the year working to give the products of your labor to your murderous overlords.
All while worshipping them for "fair wages" and being the only force benevolent and capable enough to protect themselves from the cruel capitalists of the world who insist on voluntary value-for-value transactions.
I'm losing faith in humanity. My biggest worry is that the people will get exactly what they're asking for.
*TLDR it's late, I'm tired. Institutionalized violence (the state) is the problem. Voluntary trade is the solution. Corporatism (not capitalism) creates the problems I address above.
McDonald's is all for higher minimum wages, but not on a level playing field, only with institutionalized violence on their side. Similar to why they support the Affordable Healthcare Act.
McDonald
Why? Because they can afford it. Joe's Burger can't - and killing competition with the violence of the state on their side is one of the most profitable moves they can make.
Wal-Mart is also a strong supporter.
Wal-Mart Says It Won't Oppose Increase in Minimum Wage - WSJ
But it's really no surprise, both companies thrive off of state support, they're killing competitors and thriving off of private prison labor, paying workers around .90 a day. Slave labor for those in bed with the state. Impossible barriers to entry for the surfs.
http://atlantablackstar.com/2014/10...enefiting-from-the-prison-industrial-complex/
Teachers are banking on the fact that private prisons will hit their quota and imprison a high-percentage of todays kids for future slave labor. (I'm not suggesting that teachers understand this, but they're heavily invested as well as the majority of the US).
Who
I don't have time to get into details. Minimum wage kills jobs, where do those jobs go? Prison? The military? The state?
The problem here has nothing to do with "fair wages". It has to do with economic ignorance.
It's about creating lemmings that gratefully march off to become cattle to slaughter for profit. Or slaves, whether that's forced labor for non-crimes or getting "lucky" and only spending half of the year working to give the products of your labor to your murderous overlords.
All while worshipping them for "fair wages" and being the only force benevolent and capable enough to protect themselves from the cruel capitalists of the world who insist on voluntary value-for-value transactions.
I'm losing faith in humanity. My biggest worry is that the people will get exactly what they're asking for.
*TLDR it's late, I'm tired. Institutionalized violence (the state) is the problem. Voluntary trade is the solution. Corporatism (not capitalism) creates the problems I address above.
If you work at a job that's so monotonous that you literally perform better when you're high as a kite, then it doesn't deserve a good wage.
The only time I got compliments from my bosses at McDonalds was when I showed up stoned out of my mind. Could toast buns like a motherfucker then, lol
The only time I got compliments from my bosses at McDonalds was when I showed up stoned out of my mind. Could toast buns like a motherfucker then, lol
I think the solution would be like this:
1) Give all minimal wage protesters an obligatory test. Test their skills in understanding of the work they are doing. Not like - "I put frozen Nuggets in the oven, push that button and in 10 seconds they are ready". They must explain how this oven works, how many portions of Nuggets it can produce an hour and how many portions do said workers produce while operating this oven.
2) Ask them to describe the way this oven can break and what they should do to get it back operational ASAP. I bet their answer would be "tell a manager and sit on your arse doing nothing"
3) Ask them what they remember from the lections they were given at McDonald's career courses. I doubt anyone would remember anything or be able to repeat what they were told.
In short - let them prove they are worth $15 an hour. And if they fail, explain them in simple words that the salary they get is not a wage - is a social help to them, because they do not really earn that. And fire the dumbest ones.
The rest will make conclusions and work better - at least they will put some effort into it.
However, I cannot imagine jobs worse than minimal wage workers in McDonald's.
1) Give all minimal wage protesters an obligatory test. Test their skills in understanding of the work they are doing. Not like - "I put frozen Nuggets in the oven, push that button and in 10 seconds they are ready". They must explain how this oven works, how many portions of Nuggets it can produce an hour and how many portions do said workers produce while operating this oven.
2) Ask them to describe the way this oven can break and what they should do to get it back operational ASAP. I bet their answer would be "tell a manager and sit on your arse doing nothing"
3) Ask them what they remember from the lections they were given at McDonald's career courses. I doubt anyone would remember anything or be able to repeat what they were told.
In short - let them prove they are worth $15 an hour. And if they fail, explain them in simple words that the salary they get is not a wage - is a social help to them, because they do not really earn that. And fire the dumbest ones.
The rest will make conclusions and work better - at least they will put some effort into it.
However, I cannot imagine jobs worse than minimal wage workers in McDonald's.