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popeye said:
They are outdated. They stifle competition, force workers to join against their will, force unreasonable cost on business.
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A union is simply a banding together of workers with the intent of getting a better deal at the bargaining table. IMO, to be against unions is to be against the free market. The rivalry between producers and laborers is age old and will probably not be reconciled anytime soon. So why not let them fight it out?

I know union people can get pretty aggressive, but just because some of their tactics are not good does not mean that unions are inherently bad.

I've worked in factories, my parents worked in factories all their lives, the parents of the kids I went to school with mostly worked in factories. If you knew anything about factory culture you'd know how shitty factory workers will often be treated without a union, the decade doesn't really matter.

popeye said:
Take a look at the car companies and you will see what unions do.
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You can't use one or two instances where a union may have amassed too much power and use them as an example of why all unions are bad.
Without unions the producers will always wield all the power and exploit it at the expense of the worker. But that's ok?


popeye said:
Take a peek at the stats on states with right to work vs states that are unionized. Now notice which ones have 15% unemployment. Unions are to blame for this..well that and most are ran by democrats.
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Which states are they? How does it correlate with the states who are big in manufacturing and have had many of their jobs shipped to mexico and china?

popeye said:
Sure they were needed in 1905 to stop child labor, unreasonable pay and working conditions but it isn't 1905 any longer.
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Things have gotten better, probably for two reasons: 1) government regulation 2) people banding together and demanding better conditions

So which is better? More regulation or the existence of unions? Should they both be done away with?

As long as unions aren't forcing people to join(and I'm not saying it doesn't happen), unions really are the market solution in the ongoing war between producers/owners and laborers.
 
LogicFlux said:
As long as unions aren't forcing people to join(and I'm not saying it doesn't happen), unions really are the market solution in the ongoing war between producers/owners and laborers.
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Unions do good things, but Management also has the job to not allow them to overstep their bounds. I'm not anti-union, I'm anti-unions getting too much power. Obama wants to eliminate the secret ballot to join unions - now THAT is un-American and allows people to be intimidated and forced into joining a union.
 
papajohn56 said:
Unions do good things, but Management also has the job to not allow them to overstep their bounds. I'm not anti-union, I'm anti-unions getting too much power. Obama wants to eliminate the secret ballot to join unions - now THAT is un-American and allows people to be intimidated and forced into joining a union.
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I don't know much about that bill, even if it was passed or not. I've heard people talking about it on the news networks which means the little info I have about it is biased one way or the other. If what you say is true, then it's definitely wrong.
Popeye and other conservatives blanket hatred of unions is still retarded though. They should spend a few weeks or months working in an ununionized factory; they might rethink their notion of elitism.
 
LogicFlux said:
I don't know much about that bill, even if it was passed or not. I've heard people talking about it on the news networks which means the little info I have about it is biased one way or the other. If what you say is true, then it's definitely wrong.
Popeye and other conservatives blanket hatred of unions is still retarded though. They should spend a few weeks or months working in an ununionized factory; they might rethink their notion of elitism.
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My state is right to work, so I have never worked at a union job. I did work in a non union poly film factory for a few summers while in college. I was paid excellent for a summer job and everything was great.

I guess workers in right to work states are just used to working in an environment where they know who the boss is and lazy fucks, whiners and general Dbags can be fired where they stand.
 
Doctors hate you even MOAR:

Accidental deaths caused by physicians per year: 120,000.

Accidental deaths per physician: 0.171 (U.S. Dept. of Health & Human Services)

Number of gun owners in the US: 80,000,000.

Number of accidental gun deaths per year (all age groups): 1,500.

Accidental deaths per gun owner: 0.0000188

Statistically, doctors are approximately 9,000 times more dangerous than gun owners.
 
Unions are great if you are a fucking lazy bastard. You can be worthless and it's a pain for the company to fire you. You also get someone to negotiate raises for you that you don't deserve. If you are a hard worker, you get lumped in with the lazy assholes and they'll keep you from getting paid what you are worth. From each according to his ability to each according to his need... haha. Fuck unions.

Oh wait, I'm a lazy fucker.... yahoo for unions!
 
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popeye said:
How can Internet marketers hate the bankers and rich but yet push rebills on the unsuspecting public and be fine with it. This is a crack dealers mentality.

I don't understand.
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Popeye, as a lib who mostly disagrees with your leanings (at least socially) i ask myself that question quite often.
 
thunderlips said:
.... as a lib
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Honestly not intending to sound inflammatory here, I'm just very curious why anyone would openly admit or label themselves as a liberal. If you apply your views to the quote below, it actually might make you think twice before proclaiming "I'm a Lib":

"The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened."
~ Norman Thomas

Once again, not to stoke the flames of debate, I'm truly just very curious.
 
DAMNIT Lots you roped me in.

I'm very proud to be liberal, at least socially liberal. Financially, I don't consider myself a liberal at all.

...And one would ask the same question right back at ya.
 
LotsOfZeros said:
Honestly not intending to sound inflammatory here, I'm just very curious why anyone would openly admit or label themselves as a liberal. If you apply your views to the quote below, it actually might make you think twice before proclaiming "I'm a Lib":

"The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened."
~ Norman Thomas

Once again, not to stoke the flames of debate, I'm truly just very curious.
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While i am a lib socially, i dont fancy myself one fiscally.

People should be able to marry and f whomever they want, Just like they should be able to make money the way they want
 
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