Huge Solar Breakthrough!

lukep said:
Until, of course, they become too scarce... Which is approaching within our lifetimes.

...And don't forget it takes time to build up the replacement tech, so no one can afford to wait until the day gas hits $20 a gallon to start mass producing a solar equivalent.


If I were a homeowner I'd get off the grid totally, if for no other reason than the principle of it.
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Coal will last us the next 500 to 600 years.

Plutonium can last us the next 200 years.

Thorium can last us the next 500-1000 years.

MSTeacher said:
Yeah solar markups are stupid. Contractors who work with solar make it all sound like a wildly complicated and mystical undertaking that requires at least a nine million percent markup.

If you're willing to do the work - a lot of work - you can get it down to about a buck a watt by making the panels yourself. schockergd's numbers are accurate from my research.

There are things you can do to cut down your electrical needs too. Like led bulbs, gas appliances, wood/oil/gas heat, etc.
Click to expand...

The easiest way to go solar is to cut or make every single piece of your home more efficient. I've read many blogs that have absolutely insane ways to make your home more efficient. One was about how to "Make" your own refrigerator. You take a kegerator thermocouple system and drop it in a deep freezer (Vertical freezer) and set it to 35f. If you use a smaller one that is energy star compliant, you can drop your cost down to 100-200 watts a day. The same can be done for a freezer as all deep freezers are much more efficient at keeping food cool or frozen than a horizontal access fridge/freezer combo. A freezer + refrigerator system can be developed that will run on as little as 300 watts a day and will be more reliable than a normal fridge.

Lights, heating, insulation , many things can be made to be extremely efficient. Since I live in Ohio, I would love to build a heating system utilizing a solar heat trough and a indoor thermal battery. I was reading a few months ago how a guy in Toronto was keeping his swimming pool open all year long by using one. Even in the winter he was keeping the pool at 60f without a major problem.
 


Here's a site that has a list of many typical costs & consumption : Appliance Energy Use Chart

Those figures really work well with the average household consumption in the US (958kwh/mo).

If you look at the chart ,here are the top usages.

Refrigerator 75
Freezer 140
Dryer (4l/wk) 43.2
Water Heater 400

All together, that's 685 of the 958kwh a family uses per month. As stated above, it's possible to replace your fridge, freezer and water heater all with super-cheap replacements. This would take care of nearly 2/3rds of your consumption. The dryer is obviously a easy replacement IF you stop doing it every day and hang it out on a line. Of course this doesn't work in the winter. If you had a solar trough heating system like I said earlier, you could actually pull heat out of your free hot water heater and use it to dry clothes quite easily.
 
Have you guys seen the film with the ex cop sitting in a room smoking cigs talking about peak oil for 90 mins? Forget the name ... Very interesting film, not sure what to think
 
eliquid said:
I like how 80% of this idiots posts are always something about LukeP.

Spends his boring life on Wickedfire chasing down other members just to post something negative about them so he could get his rocks off. Real classy.

You got this shit on Google alerts or something? Hong Kong must not be all that exciting for you.
Click to expand...

You're the guy with over 5,000 posts. I don't even have 500. So who's the guy here who's really spending their boring life on WF? Maybe people living in glass houses shouldn't throw stones?

Like many people here, I just mess around and have fun on WF while I do my business on skype. You on the other hand have your whole life built around selling shitty backlinks on here. I bet it's on the side too and you got a 9 to 5 to deal with.
 
REIMktg said:
Thios I find interesting. Is that the install charge including contractor mark-up? Are there sources where you can access the pieces of a system at wholesale and then cut the price significantly - or is this the cost of materials?

As a contractor I know there are many things we where the mark-up is incredible and yet the public just thinks "it is what it is". Are there sources? A while back I tried to do some research, but I got sidetracked and forgot about it.

Any insight?
Click to expand...

$20k-$30k is the cost of a very modest system + inverter & Backup with no installation.

Here's a amazon page with a pretty reputable solar panel. $2.49 per watt for a monocrystaline system (Cheapest cost per watt, highest space requirement). [ame=http://www.amazon.com/Ramsond-Monocrystalline-Photovoltaic-Battery-Charging/dp/B005QUALBW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1349613287&sr=8-1&keywords=100+watt+solar]Amazon.com: Ramsond 100 Watt 100w W Monocrystalline Photovoltaic PV Solar Panel Module 12V Battery Charging: Patio, Lawn & Garden[/ame]

As I said before, you're looking at 4kw to 6kw to replace the needs of the average household. So using those panels you would be at $9960-$14,940. This is for the panel system alone, no backup, no inversion , no contractor work.

For the inverter, you're looking at around $1k for a good system. Here's a pretty decent one that is 6kw, but for a normal house I'd say you should get much more. [ame=http://www.amazon.com/Power-Bright-PW6000-12-Inverter-6000/dp/B002EA22YQ/ref=sr_1_5?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1349613422&sr=1-5&keywords=solar+inverter]Amazon.com: Power Bright PW6000-12 Power Inverter 6000 Watt 12 Volt DC To 110 Volt AC: Patio, Lawn & Garden[/ame]

Ok , so now you have panels & a inverter, you can power stuff as long as the sun is out now. However most energy is used during the evenings rather than the mornings as this is when people is home, so it's not practical at all. Now *Most* people will do a grid-tie system that will sell the electricity being produced back to the power company, then they buy the power back from the company when they need it. This is of course doesn't help you out one bit if the grid goes down, it just gives you a feel-good feeling that you're saving trees & Bambi (Although you're really not because each panel produces a ton of arsenic & other heavy metals that kill all sorts of life, but that's another point).

So, for a GOOD system, you need to integrate a battery backup system. A quality system costs about $200-$2,000 per KWH of storage. Now, some people are happy to pay for the $2k/kwh system but they're idiots and are getting scammed by solar companies who make up the lion's share of consumer solar technology companies.

So, I would build my own system out using quality solar batteries that are going to last more than 2 years (Granted, they will need replaced every 5 years or so). Here are 1836 watt/hr batteries for $520 , or $283 per KWH. I would go with a 10kwh backup which will be $5200 or so.

So, Now you have a $10k solar panel array, $1k of inversion and a $5k battery backup system , putting us at $16k of cost. Throw in about $2k worth of high-quality connections, mounting brackets and other stuff too. This is all DIY pricing mind you, and a contractor will mark it up no less than 50% excluding labor. So , this puts us at a minimum pricing of $18k for the DIYer solar guy. A contractor as I stated will provide a $20k-$30k estimate, but his system won't really be doing much other than selling the power generated back to the grid, and then taking electricity from the grid when you're really going to use it.

eliquid said:
been looking at this, what do you guys think?
LITE-Series Solar Stik
Click to expand...

Desal is one of the most inefficient ways of doing things. If you were hell bent on doing dsal for water, I would use a solar steam desalinization system. You could put together one for around $1k that would put out no less than 20 gallons a hour. Heck, I bet for under $5k I could put together a system that would do 10 gallons a MINUTE using a solar steam boiler to desal.

Water purification is typically a power-intensive job. Desal would be the last thing I would be doing in a small village or remote area of the world. For $1,000 you could put together a nice solar collection panel and one of [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Hydro-Logic-Stealth-Customized-Reverse/dp/B00286SOKM/ref=sr_1_2?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1349614420&sr=1-2&keywords=reverse+osmosis"]these[/ame] and do around 150 to 200 gallons of clean water a day. Granted RO isn't as pure as desal water, but it will work for 99% of applications, and if you need further treating you can do it the absolute easiest way - chemicals. I know greenie-weenie types hate to think of chemicals, but realistically you can treat 1,000 gallons of water with chemicals for about 1 cent of cost. I can carry enough chemical in a 1qt glad ziploc bag to treat no less than 10,000 gallons of water. The big benefit off of this $1k solar system is that you'd also produce plenty of extra power to charge things like phones & radios. This is a bit cheaper than the $13k-$20k system that Luke is fawning over.
 
REIMktg said:
Thios I find interesting. Is that the install charge including contractor mark-up? Are there sources where you can access the pieces of a system at wholesale and then cut the price significantly - or is this the cost of materials?

As a contractor I know there are many things we where the mark-up is incredible and yet the public just thinks "it is what it is". Are there sources? A while back I tried to do some research, but I got sidetracked and forgot about it.

Any insight?
Click to expand...

$20k-$30k is the cost of a very modest system + inverter & Backup with no installation.

Here's a amazon page with a pretty reputable solar panel. $2.49 per watt for a monocrystaline system (Cheapest cost per watt, highest space requirement). [ame=http://www.amazon.com/Ramsond-Monocrystalline-Photovoltaic-Battery-Charging/dp/B005QUALBW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1349613287&sr=8-1&keywords=100+watt+solar]Amazon.com: Ramsond 100 Watt 100w W Monocrystalline Photovoltaic PV Solar Panel Module 12V Battery Charging: Patio, Lawn & Garden[/ame]

As I said before, you're looking at 4kw to 6kw to replace the needs of the average household. So using those panels you would be at $9960-$14,940. This is for the panel system alone, no backup, no inversion , no contractor work.

For the inverter, you're looking at around $1k for a good system. Here's a pretty decent one that is 6kw, but for a normal house I'd say you should get much more. [ame=http://www.amazon.com/Power-Bright-PW6000-12-Inverter-6000/dp/B002EA22YQ/ref=sr_1_5?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1349613422&sr=1-5&keywords=solar+inverter]Amazon.com: Power Bright PW6000-12 Power Inverter 6000 Watt 12 Volt DC To 110 Volt AC: Patio, Lawn & Garden[/ame]

Ok , so now you have panels & a inverter, you can power stuff as long as the sun is out now. However most energy is used during the evenings rather than the mornings as this is when people is home, so it's not practical at all. Now *Most* people will do a grid-tie system that will sell the electricity being produced back to the power company, then they buy the power back from the company when they need it. This is of course doesn't help you out one bit if the grid goes down, it just gives you a feel-good feeling that you're saving trees & Bambi (Although you're really not because each panel produces a ton of arsenic & other heavy metals that kill all sorts of life, but that's another point).

So, for a GOOD system, you need to integrate a battery backup system. A quality system costs about $200-$2,000 per KWH of storage. Now, some people are happy to pay for the $2k/kwh system but they're idiots and are getting scammed by solar companies who make up the lion's share of consumer solar technology companies.

So, I would build my own system out using quality solar batteries that are going to last more than 2 years (Granted, they will need replaced every 5 years or so). Here are 1836 watt/hr batteries for $520 , or $283 per KWH. I would go with a 10kwh backup which will be $5200 or so.

So, Now you have a $10k solar panel array, $1k of inversion and a $5k battery backup system , putting us at $16k of cost. Throw in about $2k worth of high-quality connections, mounting brackets and other stuff too. This is all DIY pricing mind you, and a contractor will mark it up no less than 50% excluding labor. So , this puts us at a minimum pricing of $18k for the DIYer solar guy. A contractor as I stated will provide a $20k-$30k estimate, but his system won't really be doing much other than selling the power generated back to the grid, and then taking electricity from the grid when you're really going to use it.

eliquid said:
been looking at this, what do you guys think?
LITE-Series Solar Stik
Click to expand...

Desal is one of the most inefficient ways of doing things. If you were hell bent on doing dsal for water, I would use a solar steam desalinization system. You could put together one for around $1k that would put out no less than 20 gallons a hour. Heck, I bet for under $5k I could put together a system that would do 10 gallons a MINUTE using a solar steam boiler to desal.

Water purification is typically a power-intensive job. Desal would be the last thing I would be doing in a small village or remote area of the world. For $1,000 you could put together a nice solar collection panel and one of [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Hydro-Logic-Stealth-Customized-Reverse/dp/B00286SOKM/ref=sr_1_2?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1349614420&sr=1-2&keywords=reverse+osmosis"]these[/ame] and do around 150 to 200 gallons of clean water a day. Granted RO isn't as pure as desal water, but it will work for 99% of applications, and if you need further treating you can do it the absolute easiest way - chemicals. I know greenie-weenie types hate to think of chemicals, but realistically you can treat 1,000 gallons of water with chemicals for about 1 cent of cost. I can carry enough chemical in a 1qt glad ziploc bag to treat no less than 10,000 gallons of water. The big benefit off of this $1k solar system is that you'd also produce plenty of extra power to charge things like phones & radios. This is a bit cheaper than the $13k-$20k system that Luke is fawning over.
 
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The only thing I hate is, say there comes a time you really need this shit.

End of the world zombie shit and no power going on. What happens when these filters get clogged, or a couple of your panels bust/go dead from age/use? Or your wind power device's motor goes bad? Not like you can hop on the internet or down to the local walmart and pick up another one.

Same for generators on gas or hydrogen, unless you stock piled some to the side, your gonna run out at some point in the near future.

Seems like all this boils down to, who can store the most shit the longest in a real need base situation.
 
The only thing I hate is, say there comes a time you really need this shit.

End of the world zombie shit and no power going on. What happens when these filters get clogged, or a couple of your panels bust/go dead from age/use? Or your wind power device's motor goes bad? Not like you can hop on the internet or down to the local walmart and pick up another one.

Same for generators on gas or hydrogen, unless you stock piled some to the side, your gonna run out at some point in the near future.

Seems like all this boils down to, who can store the most shit the longest in a real need base situation.
 
"Huge Solar Breakthrough", because it's spinning more efficiently? seriously?

So they are investing billions and trillions in this shit and only now someone thought about this aspect?

I agree that it might be better than the flat panels that people stick on their roofs, but industrial panels are spinning with the sun already:


Kramer_Junction_11.jpg


so I doubt that this is anything near a breakthrough or will change anything
 
schockergd said:
For the inverter, you're looking at around $1k for a good system. Here's a pretty decent one that is 6kw, but for a normal house I'd say you should get much more. Amazon.com: Power Bright PW6000-12 Power Inverter 6000 Watt 12 Volt DC To 110 Volt AC: Patio, Lawn & Garden

So, for a GOOD system, you need to integrate a battery backup system. A quality system costs about $200-$2,000 per KWH of storage. Now, some people are happy to pay for the $2k/kwh system but they're idiots and are getting scammed by solar companies who make up the lion's share of consumer solar technology companies.

So, I would build my own system out using quality solar batteries that are going to last more than 2 years (Granted, they will need replaced every 5 years or so). Here are 1836 watt/hr batteries for $520 , or $283 per KWH. I would go with a 10kwh backup which will be $5200 or so.
Click to expand...

I think a good write up for someone would be to detail out which batteries to get, how to wire them up into a bank/backup system along with controllers and inverters.

I am looking at systems like this to power some things in my home to bring down the cost of what I do use from the Elec. company here and to be more knowledgeable too about this. However, so much good and bad info on the internet I do not know who's to take or what to get.

I'd like to get a few panels and maybe a wind turbine ( we are not all that windy, but if I already have the inverters and battery backups, why not spend an extra $1k for a good turbine to have in place for windy nights/storms to help out a bit? ) all going into a good inverter and backup system for my house and appliances.

If someone could do an excellent write up on that part ( batteries, controllers, monitors, inverters, etc ) then plugging up the panels and generators and turbines should be rather easy to figure out from there. Would you then put this entire hookup right into your "main" box as well?

I have a portable gas generator that I have for when we lose power due to storms and ice/winter and it sits outside until I need it. Once fired up, I just connect a thick cable that plugs into the generator thru a window in the basement and direct connect into my main ( after turning it off ) via the dryer fuse in the panel and power my house that way until the RECC comes and fixes the issues with the power grid here. Its works well for what it is now as a temp solution, but I'd like to have something better where I didn't rely on buying gas and firing up a loud generator each time.
 
eliquid said:
The only thing I hate is, say there comes a time you really need this shit.

End of the world zombie shit and no power going on. What happens when these filters get clogged, or a couple of your panels bust/go dead from age/use? Or your wind power device's motor goes bad? Not like you can hop on the internet or down to the local walmart and pick up another one.

Same for generators on gas or hydrogen, unless you stock piled some to the side, your gonna run out at some point in the near future.

Seems like all this boils down to, who can store the most shit the longest in a real need base situation.
Click to expand...

Then you start using wood for power :)
 
VinBed said:
There is only one energy source really worth paying attention to - Thorium (LFTR specifically). It is being primarily developed by the Chinese, and the US government has recently lent the Chinese our support and knowledge on building LFTR reactors.

TEDxYYC - Kirk Sorensen - Thorium - YouTube

U.S. partners with China on new nuclear | SmartPlanet
Click to expand...

There are a few dozen plants in the US that are readily available to switch over to LFTRs at very minimal cost. The problem is , thorium mines aren't in swing states and don't need to be bought off.
 
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0_nuvPKIi8]Jem Melts Rock Using Sunshine - Bang Goes The Theory - Series 3, Episode 5 Preview - BBC One - YouTube[/ame]
 
schockergd said:
There are a few dozen plants in the US that are readily available to switch over to LFTRs at very minimal cost. The problem is , thorium mines aren't in swing states and don't need to be bought off.
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Isn't thorium a byproduct of coal as well? I don't know if I buy the political argument; I just think not enough people have heard of LFTR technology. If there was a legit national marketing campaign to raise awareness, I think it could really take off as a national issue/option.
 
hellblazer said:
I don't know if I buy the political argument; I just think not enough people have heard of LFTR technology. If there was a legit national marketing campaign to raise awareness, I think it could really take off as a national issue/option.
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L-O-L! Holy Crikey I think I just wet myself laughing...

I just took you for a random anti-commie, Limbaugh-worshipping kook before, hellboy, but this paragraph reveals so much about your brainwashing it's amazing.

How the hell did you ever find WF appealing with such a poor understanding of capitalism?
 
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