In the World of Music, Where Do You Reside?

definitely a 1-6 i listen to all genres im really knowledgeble about everything from dubstep (skrillex) to gengster rap ( " nas" ) to heavy metal (juggulo since 02) and indie singer songwriters like lANA DEL RAY and also swans (mid period only i find their post 90s work to be too self indulgent )
 


Instrumentalist said:
It's way more complicated than that.

Firstly, who ever said I felt superior? Also how can you even pretend to know what clothes I wear?

The picture is more about being exposed to other music, and being familiar with what's out there. You can compare it to someone who tastes wine for a living. Their sense of taste and smell is going to be far more trained than the person who is not a full-time wine taster. You might like to hear their recommendation, and you can probably benefit from their experience. But in the end what you do depends subjectively on you and your own personal tastes. I don't think that makes anyone superior. It just implies that someone has more experience.
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Eclectic taste is not equal to open mindedness. Open mindedness is the ability to replant your paradigms.

I'm one to believe that most full time wine tasters don't know half as much as they think they do. For the most part, it is all hot air. And it is the ultimate in lameness for whine enthusiasts to think they are a 'higher level wine drinker' because they have a broader experience. 98% of the experience of listening to music or drinking is who you are doing it with, where and what your state of mind is. Get those 3 together, and even mediocre music/wine is 1,000,000x better than the most expensive bottle consumed in not so enjoyable conditions.

When you live a well rounded life, your preferences in music just aren't very important, because you understand it is more about the whole package. That is why the graph is lame, and categorizing oneself as having a superior level of music appreciation because you have a wide breadth of taste proves that whoever made that graph doesn't get that whole rounded life thing into perspective.
 
I don't think there's a genre there I don't like in some way or form. I try my best to widen my musical tastes every chance I get, just because.
 
greenleaves said:
Eclectic taste is not equal to open mindedness. Open mindedness is the ability to replant your paradigms.

I'm one to believe that most full time wine tasters don't know half as much as they think they do. For the most part, it is all hot air. And it is the ultimate in lameness for whine enthusiasts to think they are a 'higher level wine drinker' because they have a broader experience. 98% of the experience of listening to music or drinking is who you are doing it with, where and what your state of mind is. Get those 3 together, and even mediocre music/wine is 1,000,000x better than the most expensive bottle consumed in not so enjoyable conditions.

When you live a well rounded life, your preferences in music just aren't very important, because you understand it is more about the whole package. That is why the graph is lame, and categorizing oneself as having a superior level of music appreciation because you have a wide breadth of taste proves that whoever made that graph doesn't get that whole rounded life thing into perspective.
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I agree with this statement for the most part. But I think it applies mainly to laypersons who just listen to music, and especially to laypersons who listen to music and think their eclectic taste makes them special.

so *thumbs up*

however, I think that music, like most things, can be appreciated on a much much deeper level by those who's lives are totally dedicated to music. people who live and breathe music. the conductors, instrumentalists, singers, composers, and musicians of the world.

When someone dedicates their life to an art, or a science, or a pursuit of any kind, beyond just "casual consumption", then I think that those people really do have a right to be snobs. They can see things that others just can't.

In the same way that einstein can understand physics, or darwin can glimpse the grand beauty of life and evolution, or bach or beethoven can pereceive music in a way that anyone who hasn't studied music just can't comprehend or appreciate. And Davinci could appreciate the simplest of shapes or mechanics that we wouldn't give a second thought...

to these people music is much much more than a small part of life, it is the window through witch they glimpse the world and live their lives.

I have respect for anyone who dedicates themselves to something at an elite level. Whether that be music, being a soldier, marketing, sports, philosophy, spirituality, being a dad, or any of the countless human endeavours and pursuits that can give purpose, meaning, and a framework for living ones life.

So anyone here that has seriously studied music or worked for years mastering an instrument or spent a good part of their life deeply involved in this art in any capacity. I believe that they do have a right to be music snobs.
 
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lPFgBvEICQ&feature=relmfu=embed"]john coltrane-my favorite things-Newport '63 - 2/2 - YouTube[/ame]


part 2 of this piece, it's nothing special, just some "jazz".

I'd say it's on par with most "country", "pop", "r&b", "rap" or "rock", especially the serialist tone-row inspired harmonic run that starts around 1:03. It's as plebeian as anything Bartok or Stravinsky ever wrote, that's for sure.
 
IceToEskimos said:
The fact that harmonic conception hasn't progressed an inch since JC put his horn down for the last time probably means that I don't need to listen to any of the other shit on that chart.
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I agree.

But these things happen in bursts of breakthroughs and innovation, we are definitely in a low point right now. But the progress and development of harmonic conception (and melodic, rhythmic, etc.) takes place over the course of centuries unfortunately, and not decades.

Early to mid 20th century saw massive developments. We had people like stravinsky who's rite of spring was unlike anything anyone had heard before. We had insane jazz like your man Coltrane, we had atonal music, increase in rhythmic complexity and syncopation... and even polytonal and polyrhythmic structures!

We definitely took things to their extreme (*ahem freejazz*)

The only real significant developments after about the 60s would have to be minimalism and the rise of technology.

But you are right nothing major has really happened since.

It will though! Perhaps in our lifetime, perhaps not...

But it will be something that we can't even conceive of right now. I don't think people *really* understand that concept of a breakthrough in music. I don't think people right now realize just how startling new forms & styles of music in the early and mid 20th century were to people back then.

Either that or some fucking genius like JS Bach will come along and without necessarily innovating, will simply synthesize and perfect modern music to the point where everyone else has no choice but to move on because there is nothing left to explore or discover.

I hope I'm alive to glimpse the next batch of geniuses who will have their hand in writing musical history but I seriously doubt it.
 
SnapJacks said:
I agree.

But these things happen in bursts of breakthroughs and innovation, we are definitely in a low point right now. But the progress and development of harmonic conception (and melodic, rhythmic, etc.) takes place over the course of centuries unfortunately, and not decades.

Early to mid 20th century saw massive developments. We had people like stravinsky who's rite of spring was unlike anything anyone had heard before. We had insane jazz like your man Coltrane, we had atonal music, increase in rhythmic complexity and syncopation... and even polytonal and polyrhythmic structures! Then

We definitely took things to their extreme (*ahem freejazz*)

The only real significant developments after about the 60s would have to be minimalism and the rise of technology.

But you are right nothing major has really happened since.

It will though! Perhaps in our lifetime, perhaps not...

But it will be something that we can't even conceive of right now. I don't think people *really* understand that concept of a breakthrough in music. I don't think people right now realize just how startling new forms & styles of music in the early and mid 20th century were to people back then.

I hope I'm alive to glimpse the next batch of geniuses who will have their hand in writing musical history!
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I don't really know where things are going to go next, but I've secretly hoped for a while that the 12-tone scale would give way to something more interesting. The harmonic possibilities that come from microtonal scales are really interesting.

The chords these women make are just insane.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrcgDhpS3uo=embed[/ame]
 
IceToEskimos said:
I don't really know where things are going to go next, but I've secretly hoped for a while that the 12-tone scale would give way to something more interesting. The harmonic possibilities that come from microtonal scales are really interesting.

The chords these women make are just insane.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrcgDhpS3uo=embed
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Sick Video...

There are huge possiblities with 12 tone scale & microtones. And of course rhythm too. The west is harmonically superior, the east is rhythmically superior. Melody being both rhythmic and harmonic/tonal means that they can both bring something extremely valuable to the table. You combine 2 or 3,000 years of respective development from the east and the west (which is a development that is just in its infant stage right now), combined with some sort of (perhaps) microtonal harmonic practice, microtonal-serial-traditional-melodic practice, combined with technology, and all that other good shit you brought up...

Fun to think about.

Part of the problem is that we are so fucking conditioned. We are conditioned to the temperment of a scale right. Meaning to the frequences and relations of the tunings of notes. The frequences and notes and distances between notes that we have now isn't the same as it used to be. (sorry I'm bit buzzed had a few beers). But we are also conditioned to harmonic relationships, rhythmic structures, and especially to microtones (in the west anyways).

So I think we are still going through a serious stage of adjustment, our ears are still adjusting to these new relationships and sounds. Especially microtones.

(Hopefully Barack Obama converting America to Islam will speed along the process thanks to microtonal prayers 5 times a day.)

A great example is the Augmented 4th. The Devils chord. How long did it take for that simple interval to be accepted? haha... It wasn't until Debussey or maybe Wagner that we began to perceive that interval could actually be beautiful.

My point is that on a whole, we are conditioned to perceive music, consonance and dissonance, in a certain way, even lay persons, and so that is part of the reason for why the development of music takes so fucking long.

argh.

WANT TO HEAR SUPER GENIUS FUTURISTIC MUSIC NOW.

Beer and ritalin and thinking about music not a good combination, back to work.
 
SnapJacks said:
A great example is the Augmented 4th. The Devils chord. How long did it take for that simple interval to be accepted? haha... It wasn't until Debussey or maybe Wagner that we began to perceive that interval could actually be beautiful.
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This tune starts off with an augmented 11th, and although I think Bill is lifting that extension direct from Debussy's playbook, it's beautiful as fuck.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoPL7BExSQU=embed[/ame]
 
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OJqYCgl1z0"]Purple Haze (Live at Berkeley) - YouTube[/ame]

I don't know at which level Jimi resides but it sounds good to me!
 
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