Life in Occupied Palestine

[nickster]

Maybe, but that also doesn't automatically mean that anything she says is false.

Fallacy: Circumstantial Ad Hominem

When you are getting your information from a particular source you must always take into account the credibility of that source. She has shown herself to be a bad judge of situations and an even worse researcher. Her judgement must also be brought into question when she chose to join a joke of a cartoon network like RT.

Basically I am attacking her for being a bad journalist.

 

[bluechinagroup]

Holding up signs saying provocative shit like "Hitler was right" and spray painting swastikas is definitely anti semitic.

I personally don't think that solely criticizing Israel is anti semitic though, just like I don't think solely criticizing the US is anti American. You are criticizing a State's policies, not attacking its people.

I do think it takes two to tango though, and I don't think Palestine is totally blameless. Building tunnels instead of infrastructure shows me that the people in power there have their priorities wrong. Before Israel's border wall went up, the use of suicide bombers on Israeli civilians was totally fucked up too.

On the other hand, I still think the IDF bombarding hospitals and homes and allowing so many casualties to happen is equally fucked. Like somebody mentioned already; if there were Israelis in these hospitals and homes, would the IDF still shoot first and ask questions later?

Never forget that violence breeds more violence.

 

[Moxie]

No one can truthfully answer why social media is COVERED with anti-Israel rhetoric, but I see practically no criticism of Asad.

Different groups do get held to different standards. How many people would have protested if Rodney King had been beaten by a street gang? Sure, some of the people protesting in relation to that were because of racial reasons or because of hatred for cops, but in some ways it is a compliment toward police that their expected behavior is better than that for gangs.


US calls Israeli attack on UN school 'disgraceful' - Houston Chronicle

"We once again stress that Israel must do more to meet its own standards and avoid civilian casualties."

Where is the horror and outrage and protesting at Hamas?

 

[Unarmed Gunman]

You are mistaking what I am calling anti-semitical. The criticism of Israel in itself is not anti-semitical, but the criticism of Israel ALONE is. No one can truthfully answer why social media is COVERED with anti-Israel rhetoric, but I see practically no criticism of Asad. Where is the horror and outrage and protesting at Hamas? ISIS, Boko Haram? Where was the protesting of the white europeans to Sadam's gassing of the Kurds?

So go ahead you have the full right to criticise as anyone does, but look at whats going on around the world today and ask yourself truthfully "why is it I am ONLY protesting Israel?" Why is the worlds media concentrated on Israel and not other places evenly, where the death tolls are significantly higher and the regimes massively more brutal?

My guess is you're suffering form confirmation bias, because I have seen that shit everywhere. But the US Media had ADD, so they only push an agenda for so long and then they move on to something else.

All you heard on the news for a few months was what a monster Assad was (Remember Obama and his "red line" speech). But after beating the drums of war for a couple of months they realized it wasn't working and there wasn't enough support for another fucking war.

Boko Haram got all kinds of pub too - remember the #BringBackOurGirls shit was blowing up all over. But let's be honest, it's hard to get Americans interested in anything that happens in Africa for very long, so that wore out too. Hashtag activism is all you can expect of Becky and her sorority sisters on something like that.

Now ISIS is the new hotness, and all we're fed is how "they're so crazy that Al-Qaeda kicked them out omgwtf!!11!!". And how they are the wealthiest terrorist organization the world has ever seen. But to the American public, ISIS = Al-Qaeda. Same area, same headache and no more appetite to waste more lives and money over there.

This shit with Israel is recent in the minds of the US public and will be forgotten by the time school starts back up in September. And most of what I hear our propaganda channels relaying is pro-Israeli. Certainly FOX and CNN couldn't be more pro-Israeli if they wore yarmulke's while doing the "news". On MSNBC you get the usual liberal hand-wringing but they ALWAYS stop short of taking the Palestinian side. Which is weird since Jewish voters in the US tend to be very liberal and a strong majority vote Demcorat and yet their "news" station MSNBC is probably the least pro-Israeli of the 3 cable news channels that vomit their propaganda into American minds.

Also, Jews aren't the only Semites. So the people who hate the Palestinians or other Arabs would also be considered Anti-Semites, would they not?

 

[nickster]

I am talking about the worlds media not US. Funnily enough most people in other countries tend not to pay one bit of attention to the US news channels, not sure why

The stuff thats happening on the streets at moment is not happening in the US so I am not surprised you don't know about it. But it is very scary shit. Read some intl news sites and check the headlines and most tellingly read some of the comments on the articles to get a feel for the general sentiment at the moment.

Moxie - all those placards you are showing are anti-Hamas and not anti-Muslims, so a different thing. You can also see those protests are not only peaceful but don't have an ounce of indication that they will become violent (because they wont).

Unlike

 

[nickster]

http://www.newsweek.com/2014/08/08/exodus-why-europes-jews-are-fleeing-once-again-261854.html

 

[Kiopa_Matt]

https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/08TELAVIV2447_a.html#efmAZWAbdAgIAja

Well, now that's not very nice. Cable from US embassy in Tel Aviv.

Israeli officials have confirmed to Embassy officials on multiple occasions that they intend to keep the Gazan economy functioning at the lowest level possible consistent with avoiding a humanitarian crisis.

As part of their overall embargo plan against Gaza, Israeli officials have confirmed to econoffs on multiple occasions that they intend to keep the Gazan economy on the brink of collapse without quite pushing it over the edge

Gee, I wonder why those nasty Palestinians don't like Israel, hence are voting for Hamas?

 

[zul200289]

..And it probably sucks to be a Jew in an European country now, especially where the extremists start to make a scene.

The general public / the extremists will always see a Jew = Israeli, so for every Israeli gov's aggression on Palestine, a Jew who doesn't even agree with Israeli gov's stance will get the consequence, however f###ked up that is.

Unless the more moderates / left wings / Israelians who wants peace make their voices heard, they're gonna be swept away with all other Israelians that wants Gaza to be burnt down into ashes.

Kinda sucks when one of the Israelian protest that calls for end of war and are against the Gaza Ops got hijacked by warmongering numbskulls Israelians that screamed "There is no school tomorrow, There is no children left in Gaza"

http://www.timesofisrael.com/watch-far-right-israelis-celebrate-gaza-kids-deaths/

I am talking about the worlds media not US. Funnily enough most people in other countries tend not to pay one bit of attention to the US news channels, not sure why

The stuff thats happening on the streets at moment is not happening in the US so I am not surprised you don't know about it. But it is very scary shit. Read some intl news sites and check the headlines and most tellingly read some of the comments on the articles to get a feel for the general sentiment at the moment.

Moxie - all those placards you are showing are anti-Hamas and not anti-Muslims, so a different thing. You can also see those protests are not only peaceful but don't have an ounce of indication that they will become violent (because they wont).

Unlike

 

[Thewizardofkgn]

Might want to check this out...

The New York Times

Edit: strange the URL was showing up as 'Login' - still works

 

[Rusky]

What I was alluding to was news outlets who read the fucking news, instead of telling us what we should be believing. Ok I give you that nowadays its very very hard to find total impartiality for some reason, with even the BBC often slanting certain reporting towards a bias. But its NOTHING like the US media who aren't even ashamed to say they are totally biased.

But the comical stylings of "news" outlets like RT and YT are just a whole different ball game. They dumb the news down so much that my 3 year old would raise a single eyebrow if I dared to interrupt Thomas the Tank Engine with it.

Give me a reporter sitting behind a desk telling me the facts of what happened, I have zero interest in their opinion or the opinion of their masters.



You are mistaking what I am calling anti-semitical. The criticism of Israel in itself is not anti-semitical, but the criticism of Israel ALONE is. No one can truthfully answer why social media is COVERED with anti-Israel rhetoric, but I see practically no criticism of Asad. Where is the horror and outrage and protesting at Hamas? ISIS, Boko Haram? Where was the protesting of the white europeans to Sadam's gassing of the Kurds?

Now I know your common man doesn't have the intelligence to discern when they are being spoon fed lies and propaganda and how very anti-semitical this singling out of one peoples actually is, but those who are driving the agenda certainly do.

Also the real anti-semitism I am referring to can be seen on the streets, with the protestors, their chants of "death to Jews", their placards, their attacking Jews for being Jews. This is basically the start of a Pogrom and guess what, the liberals are standing by and doing nothing, with some of them even joining in. Whether you support the protestors position or not, if you allow these actions to go on within your own streets and not protest right back and/or protect your fellow citizens, well guess what you are anti-semitical.

Anger in Europe Over The Israeli Gaza Conflict Reverberates As Anti-Semitism

So go ahead you have the full right to criticise as anyone does, but look at whats going on around the world today and ask yourself truthfully "why is it I am ONLY protesting Israel?" Why is the worlds media concentrated on Israel and not other places evenly, where the death tolls are significantly higher and the regimes massively more brutal?

Jews have been hated throughout history and to tell you the truth most of them don't have a fucking iota of a clue why. But hearing the current rhetoric I can totally see where the seeds of this hatred come from. Propaganda and lies.

When a seemingly liberal person starts putting swastikas on their FB wall and don't see why there is any problem with that, then you can see the scary road we are currently going down.

RT dumbs the news down? The biggest modern human crime was brought about and covered up by western media.

1 million people dead and no weapons of mass destruction found.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDutkYQF9d8"]The War You Don't See (2010) (Sub español) HD - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Moxie]

Which is weird since Jewish voters in the US tend to be very liberal and a strong majority vote Demcorat and yet their "news" station MSNBC is probably the least pro-Israeli of the 3 cable news channels that vomit their propaganda into American minds.

8 fascinating trends in how American Jews think about Israel - The Washington Post

More white evangelicals than American Jews say God gave Israel to the Jewish people | Pew Research Center

"White evangelical Protestants also are more likely than Jews to favor stronger U.S. support of Israel.."

The stuff thats happening on the streets at moment is not happening in the US so I am not surprised you don't know about it. But it is very scary shit. Read some intl news sites and check the headlines and most tellingly read some of the comments on the articles to get a feel for the general sentiment at the moment.

General sentiment? So you've determined that over 50 percent of 750 million Europeans believe that "Hitler was right" or something because you saw some signs and comments on the internet?

Where is the horror and outrage and protesting at Hamas?

all those placards you are showing are anti-Hamas and not anti-Muslims, so a different thing.

 

[xha44a]

One thing I think is worth keeping in mind that it is necessary for goverment's to dehumanize opponents in order to have people acquiesce to actions that would be unconscionable otherwise. I think this is done to some degree with the Palestinians in American media, showing them as crazies, they don't love their children, they don't value life, etc etc. We've seen this before.

- 1930's - Jews were crazy, they were plotting Europe's destruction, they didn't value life (sacrificed children) etc etc - and in the end was used to garner support for unthinkable actions against them.
- Vietnam - same thing was used to justify the wholesale slaughter of civilians. You really don't have to search very far on the internet for documentation of atrocities committed by "our side". US Generals even went as far as declaring that Asian's didn't value life and dignity like us, that's why we have so many civilian casualties.
- WW1 & WW2 - without minimizing some of the atrocities committed, there was the same thing there. The Axis dehumanized their opponents (Jews, Gypsies, Left, etc), while the Allies did the same with the Germans. Interesting to note in a few short years the same people that didn't value life, etc etc - became our allies and became upright life-loving people.

I in NO way am minimizing the atrocities committed - I'm saying that dehumanization of opponents is routine, and really just a propaganda tactic. I find this particularly true of the Palestinians in American media. Who doesn't think suicide bomber when thinking of them? Understanding that this tactic is used to justify otherwise unjustifiable acts will help you look at things different.

Besides, American media would scarcely report otherwise. For example, I found it first on an Israeli website (translated courtesy of Google) - rallys of Israeli's chanting things like "There's no school in Gaza, there are no more kids left, "Gaza is a cemetery" - this is available online for people to see. When I see things like this, it forces me to go beyond the Israeli talking point of "It's one set of barbarians (muslim) trying to destroy civilization" and realize that there really is more to the conflict. BOTH sides hate each other and want each other wiped out.

Closing with a favorite quote from George Orwell...

Actions are held to be good or bad, not on their own merits, but according to who does them, and there is almost no kind of outrage — torture, the use of hostages, forced labour, mass deportations, imprisonment without trial, forgery, assassination, the bombing of civilians — which does not change its moral colour when it is committed by ‘our’ side. - George Orwell

I find this particularly relevant in the light of current events.

 

[GimpSpack]

 

[mattseh]

Hamas militants caught on tape assembling and firing rockets from an area next to a hotel where journalists were staying. : worldnews

 

[nickster]

 

[Unarmed Gunman]

Hamas militants caught on tape assembling and firing rockets from an area next to a hotel where journalists were staying. : worldnews

The best part of that video (other than the good fortune to see the whole setup 24 hours in advance) is how they blur out the faces of the "Hamas" terrorists that were supposedly setting up the rocket.

Since there is no such thing as false flags, and countries never lie to justify their wars, I'm sure there is a great explanation for the need to blur the faces of the guys shooting rockets at...wherever it is those rockets were shooting.

I'm convinced.

 

[nickster]

The best part of that video (other than the good fortune to see the whole setup 24 hours in advance) is how they blur out the faces of the "Hamas" terrorists that were supposedly setting up the rocket.

Since there is no such thing as false flags, and countries never lie to justify their wars, I'm sure there is a great explanation for the need to blur the faces of the guys shooting rockets at...wherever it is those rockets were shooting.

I'm convinced.

False flag lol. You are aware that this is an Indian crew and the guy is a respected Indian journalist?

Maybe the faces are blurred so there isn't extreme blowback to other Indian journalists in the area. Hamas do not take kindly at all to negative press in case you are not be aware.

Look just admit it there is no point in you debating with anyone on the subject as there is no evidence in existence that isn't potentially doctored and falsified to fit the other side.

This False Flag nonsense is just more conspiracy theory nut-job, David Icke, Alex Jones rhetoric to try to explain away total inconsistencies in your narrative. Yes the boogieman is hiding around every corner and the US government and the Jews are behind your grandmother tripping on that paving stone and breaking her hip.

 

[Kiopa_Matt]

Look just admit it there is no point in you debating with anyone on the subject as there is no evidence in existence that isn't potentially doctored and falsified to fit the other side.

What about the cable from the US embassy in Tel Aviv I posted above? Is that biased too?

 

[bodiddley]

When Genocide is Permissible by Yochanan Gordon

Judging by the numbers of casualties on both sides in this almost one-month old war one would be led to the conclusion that Israel has resorted to disproportionate means in fighting a far less- capable enemy. That is as far as what meets the eye. But, it’s now obvious that the US and the UN are completely out of touch with the nature of this foe and are therefore not qualified to dictate or enforce the rules of this war – because when it comes to terror there is much more than meets the eye.

I wasn’t aware of this, but it seems that the nature of warfare has undergone a major shift over the years. Where wars were usually waged to defeat the opposing side, today it seems – and judging by the number of foul calls it would indicate – that today’s wars are fought to a draw. I mean, whoever heard of a timeout in war? An NBA Basketball game allows six timeouts for each team during the course of a game, but last I checked this is a war! We are at war with an enemy whose charter calls for the annihilation of our people. Nothing, then, can be considered disproportionate when we are fighting for our very right to live.

The sad reality is that Israel gets it, but its hands are being tied by world leaders who over the past six years have insisted they are such good friends with the Jewish state, that they know more regarding its interests than even they do. But there’s going to have to come a time where Israel feels threatened enough where it has no other choice but to defy international warnings – because this is life or death.

Most of the reports coming from Gazan officials and leaders since the start of this operation have been either largely exaggerated or patently false. The truth is, it’s not their fault, falsehood and deceit is part of the very fabric of who they are and that will never change. Still however, despite their propensity to lie, when your enemy tells you that they are bent on your destruction you believe them. Similarly, when Khaled Meshal declares that no physical damage to Gaza will dampen their morale or weaken their resolve – they have to be believed. Our sage Gedalia the son of Achikam was given intelligence that Yishmael Ben Nesanyah was plotting to kill him. However, in his piety or rather naiveté Gedalia dismissed the report as a random act of gossip and paid no attention to it. To this day, the day following Rosh Hashana is commemorated as a fast day in the memory of Gedalia who was killed in cold blood on the second day of Rosh Hashana during the meal. They say the definition of insanity is repeating the same mistakes over and over. History is there to teach us lessons and the lesson here is that when your enemy swears to destroy you – you take him seriously.

Hamas has stated forthrightly that it idealizes death as much as Israel celebrates life. What other way then is there to deal with an enemy of this nature other than obliterate them completely?

News anchors such as those from CNN, BBC and Al-Jazeera have not missed an opportunity to point out the majority of innocent civilians who have lost their lives as a result of this war. But anyone who lives with rocket launchers installed or terror tunnels burrowed in or around the vicinity of their home cannot be considered an innocent civilian. If you’ll counter, that Hamas has been seen abusing civilians who have attempted to leave their homes in response to Israeli warnings to leave – well then, your beginning to come to terms with the nature of this enemy which should automatically cause the rules of standard warfare to be suspended.

Everyone agrees that Israel has the right to defend itself as well as the right to exercise that right. Secretary General Ban Ki Moon has declared it, Obama and Kerry have clearly stated that no one could be expected to sit idle as thousands of rockets rain down on the heads of its citizens, placing them in clear and present danger. It seems then that the only point of contention is regarding the measure of punishment meted out in this situation.

I will conclude with a question for all the humanitarians out there. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu clearly stated at the outset of this incursion that his objective is to restore a sustainable quiet for the citizens of Israel. We have already established that it is the responsibility of every government to ensure the safety and security of its people. If political leaders and military experts determine that the only way to achieve its goal of sustaining quiet is through genocide is it then permissible to achieve those responsible goals?

 

[James_Clarke]

The best part of that video (other than the good fortune to see the whole setup 24 hours in advance) is how they blur out the faces of the "Hamas" terrorists that were supposedly setting up the rocket.

Since there is no such thing as false flags, and countries never lie to justify their wars, I'm sure there is a great explanation for the need to blur the faces of the guys shooting rockets at...wherever it is those rockets were shooting.

I'm convinced.

You are not convinced that Hamas is firing rockets from dense urban areas?

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMiG9JD2OxM[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nu-e5qWXx-k"]Helsingin Sanomat correspondant admits hamas launched rockets from shifa hospital - YouTube[/ame]