Looks like FTC really going after Jesse Willms this time

[papajohn56]

Yea there is no need for organizations like the FTC.

We should all go to countries like China where fake medicine, chemicals in food are a common occurrence.

And you're an idiot too. You know nothing about what China is like, the FTC isn't the ones who deal with "chemicals in food", and you're also lumping Hong Kong in with mainland China without knowing there are major differences.

Let's see, fake medicine? I could you know, go to a doctor+pharmacist for medicine rather than buying WIAGRA or CIALIX from some dude on the street. If I see a street merchant selling a bunch of LV bags, they're likely fake. Why? I used my brain to actually think about it for two seconds. Fake or stolen - so I won't buy.

But hey keep up the anecdote bro - "a common occurrence" without any sources.

 

[bluechinagroup]

Funny story, when I was negotiating with the FTC, and told them I could not come up with the requested amount at one shot guess what they told me. "That's not our problem. You will have to figure it out". Those where the exact words. Did they have any heart or sympathy when it came to collecting? Not a single shit was given.

LOL.....you....were negotiating with the FTC? Not your attorney?

 

[megatabbers]

It's quite tragic that certain people have a very strong mindset that says you have to screw other people to get rich. You really don't.

But I know this mindset that you have is very strong and I don't hope to change your mind. Mostly writing this for other people.

How about the opposite? Those who provide REAL value to people get REALLY rich.

Look at Facebook, Google, etc. etc. Look at the Walton family who built Walmart. Look at Subway founders who gave people healthy (or healthier) fast food. Read Forbes 400. Tell me how many of them built a business based on screwing consumers and leeching value.

No, no they're no angels but they provided a ton of value to people and people have rewarded them in spades. Their businesses were not built on fraud and leeching value from the equation.

You can't build a billion dollar business on fraud. A few million, yes. Tens of millions, sure. 100s? Say hello to your icons, Mr. Willms and Mr. Warshak.

I can not for the life of me understand where you guys are coming from by bashing the above. Every word of it is true. There's a huge difference between being competitive / trying to put other people out of business and defrauding your own customers who you're dependent upon to make your business thrive (i.e the hand that feeds you).

Zuckerberg fucked over two guys for a full piece of the pie - not his customers (yeah, I know the whole privacy thing and how the 'idiots' trust him blah, blah, blah; not the same thing as selling a product that doesn't work and charging for it month after month).

Facebook is all about pleasing their customers, otherwise they would allow the shit that a lot of dumbfucks on this forum sling (read: shit rebills and valueless pin submits). The same goes for Walmart and any other big company. And like OP said, they're not angels, but they're not fucking people over the way that Jesse Willms is.

Not that I have a problem with what Jesse Willms or anyone like him does. In fact, I applaud his fearless attitude. Nevertheless, you don't have to resort to his tactics to make a lot of money.

 

[jhindi]

I can not for the life of me understand where you guys are coming from by bashing the above. Every word of it is true. There's a huge difference between being competitive / trying to put other people out of business and defrauding your own customers who you're dependent upon to make your business thrive (i.e the hand that feeds you).

Zuckerberg fucked over two guys for a full piece of the pie - not his customers (yeah, I know the whole privacy thing and how the 'idiots' trust him blah, blah, blah; not the same thing as selling a product that doesn't work and charging for it month after month).

Facebook is all about pleasing their customers, otherwise they would allow the shit that a lot of dumbfucks on this forum sling (read: shit rebills and valueless pin submits). The same goes for Walmart and any other big company. And like OP said, they're not angels, but they're not fucking people over the way that Jesse Willms is.

Not that I have a problem with what Jesse Willms or anyone like him does. In fact, I applaud his fearless attitude. Nevertheless, you don't have to resort to his tactics to make a lot of money.

The reason he is being bashed is because he is not seeing the reality. The fact is that both Zuckerberg and Willms are in it for the money. Both used scummy tactics to get to the top. Why not give the two guys that where screwed by Zuckerberg a fair piece of Facebook? Or do you think it is OK to scam partners but not customers?

I am not saying what either did is right, but at the end of the day they, just like every other business person, did what had to be done.

I will say that outright stealing from customers is very wrong and they should be brought to justice.

 

[megatabbers]

Or do you think it is OK to scam partners but not customers?

Definitely not. However, the latter is sure to result in your downfall just because it's highly counterproductive (not that the former isn't, mind you).

I am not saying what either did is right, but at the end of the day they, just like every other business person, did what had to be done.

I guess we just don't see eye to eye on this. Fucking people over is not the only way to make money. I don't believe it's something that "has to be done" in order to get to the top.

 

[Bold Money]

[SIZE=-1]"If my competitor were drowning I'd stick a hose in his mouth and turn on the water." -- Ray Kroc
[/SIZE]

 

[jhindi]

Definitely not. However, the latter is sure to result in your downfall just because it's highly counterproductive (not that the former isn't, mind you).

You are 100% correct. Building a business model around a bad product and/or bad service will defenitly lead to your downfall. My background is in ecommerce so I know this all too well...I pretty much dominated the 'variant' shoe niche for 3 years and returning customers were a big part of my business...

The point I was trying to make is that pretty much any sucessful person/company had to do some type of morally wrong action to get to where they are. To get to the top it's not about feelings or morals, its all about winning, and to win you might have to squash a few people along the way.

 

[Goodcat]

lol @ the tags

 

[kingfish]

Reputation management companies across the world are going to take a big hit on this one

 

[kingfish]

Facebook is all about pleasing their customers,

Not strictly true technically facebook customers are the people who pay to run ads on the site. The users are their suppliers because they supply the impressions. Facebook has a long history of annoying the fuck out of their customers.

 

[cipher86]

So a question to Jesse: why the fuck would you continually live and operate a multi-million dollar "grey-market" business out of a shithole like Sherwood Park, Alberta? A place where everyone has complete access to you and have your name all over every business? As someone previously said you could be in Thailand or travel and setup shop in places all over the world like Calvin Ayre of Bodog. My personal thought is all this "Philanthropy" and George Bush fundraisers aren't just preparation for goodwill in court - it seems like a bit of a powertrip. C'mon man you really could have taken enough way earlier and and moved on to something a bit more "legit". Nonetheless, Kudos to a cool half a billion. If they do get to you though, who will save the world then?

 

[papajohn56]

So a question to Jesse: why the fuck would you continually live and operate a multi-million dollar "grey-market" business out of a shithole like Sherwood Park, Alberta?

Maybe he likes it there and has family? Not everyone wants to live in a major city.

 

[DKPMO]

Not strictly true technically facebook customers are the people who pay to run ads on the site. The users are their suppliers because they supply the impressions. Facebook has a long history of annoying the fuck out of their customers.

Facebook has a long history of fucking over anyone they come in contact with.

 

[monies]

Thats what a brain is for. You buy from reputable companies.

When the milk scandal happened all the major brands including nestle had chemicals in their shit.

lol you've never been to hk or mainland china

You have no idea.

China only just set up an agency for food safety. When you have no regulation at all (bribe to do whatever they want), especially in competitive markets like China, people will do anything to get an edge or squeeze a profit.

And since most Chinese can't do business for shit, the only thing they see short term profits. They are thousands of cases where chemicals are added to ginger, berriez, etc to make them look more appealing. I suggest you guys also look up how in China 10% of all cooking oil are actually sewage oil. And I'm not just talking about food, fucked up things go on in a lot of industries.

You guys take the protection you get 24/7 on every aspect of your lives for granted. Even though there are still fucked up things about the FTC, SEC, FDA and the gov as a whole they are still better than letting companies go wild. The solution is to get these agencies to improve not get rid of them.

 

[monies]

And you're an idiot too. You know nothing about what China is like, the FTC isn't the ones who deal with "chemicals in food", and you're also lumping Hong Kong in with mainland China without knowing there are major differences.

Let's see, fake medicine? I could you know, go to a doctor+pharmacist for medicine rather than buying WIAGRA or CIALIX from some dude on the street. If I see a street merchant selling a bunch of LV bags, they're likely fake. Why? I used my brain to actually think about it for two seconds. Fake or stolen - so I won't buy.

But hey keep up the anecdote bro - "a common occurrence" without any sources.

I said 'like the FTC'... Yes I definitely thought that the Federal Trade Commission handled food safety.

There are definitely fake shit Chinese medicine and supplements. Even in pharmacies. And people will buy their meds off dodgy places when it's cheaper. Not every one in China comes from a middle class family. A lot of people from rural areas travel for hours to reach a hospital only to get hit by big prices they can't afford at all.

And since Hong Kong was claimed back to China the two aren't really that different. Regulatory agencies from both places still do jack shit.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/china/2011-05/19/c_13883761.htm
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/indepth/2011-06/04/c_13910974.htm

Both got hit by the same tainted drinks from Taiwan.

 

[bluechinagroup]

And since Hong Kong was claimed back to China the two aren't really that different. Regulatory agencies from both places still do jack shit.

Sulphur dioxide detected in Hong Kong meat samples
Reducing food safety risks to be big challenge: HK Secretary for Food and Health

Both got hit by the same tainted drinks from Taiwan.

Like someone else already said in this thread: You have never been to HK or mainland China.

You absolutely have no idea what you're talking about. How long have you lived in Hong Kong? I've been here for over six years.

Hong Kong works completely differently from the rest of China. For starters Hong Kong has its own legal system and Hong Kong passes its own laws. Chinese law doesn't apply for the most part. Hong Kong also has its own currency, the Hong Kong dollar.

There is a border between Hong Kong and the rest of China that is analogous to an international border.

Also the article about how some meat samples contain sulpher dioxide completely contradicts your dumbass statement that HK regulatory agencies do jack shit because this was conducted by the Center for Food Safety of Hong Kong which is a Hong Kong regulatory agency.

The reality is not much has changed in Hong Kong since it was a British colony. Hong Kong imports a lot of food from China, and this was the case when Hong Kong was a British colony too.

Yeah Hong Kong and China were hit by tainted drinks from Taiwan. So what? Wasn't there a huge tainted peanut scandal in the U.S. a few years ago? I guess the FDA was doing jack shit right?

Hong Kong's food safety standards are FAR better than China's, and I travel to both places since I live right next to the mainland.

 

[monies]

Like someone else already said in this thread: You have never been to HK or mainland China.

You absolutely have no idea what you're talking about. How long have you lived in Hong Kong? I've been here for over six years.

Hong Kong works completely differently from the rest of China. For starters Hong Kong has its own legal system and Hong Kong passes its own laws. Chinese law doesn't apply for the most part. Hong Kong also has its own currency, the Hong Kong dollar.

There is a border between Hong Kong and the rest of China that is analogous to an international border.

Also the article about how some meat samples contain sulpher dioxide completely contradicts your dumbass statement that HK regulatory agencies do jack shit because this was conducted by the Center for Food Safety of Hong Kong which is a Hong Kong regulatory agency.

The reality is not much has changed in Hong Kong since it was a British colony. Hong Kong imports a lot of food from China, and this was the case when Hong Kong was a British colony too.

Yeah Hong Kong and China were hit by tainted drinks from Taiwan. So what? Wasn't there a huge tainted peanut scandal in the U.S. a few years ago? I guess the FDA was doing jack shit right?

Hong Kong's food safety standards are FAR better than China's, and I travel to both places since I live right next to the mainland.

I have lived in China for quite some time.

Both were hit by the melamine in dairy products, taiwanese drinks scandals and I just feel that they only take action when the shit hits the fan. But you're right HK's food safety is definitely better overall.

 

[bluechinagroup]

I have lived in China for quite some time.

Both were hit by the melamine in dairy products, taiwanese drinks scandals and I just feel that they only take action when the shit hits the fan. But you're right HK's food safety is definitely better overall.

Where in China have you lived and how long? Cause clearly you don't know shit about Hong Kong.

You just feel "they" only take action when shit hits the fan? Once again.....what about the peanut scandal in the US? The FDA didn't take action until shit hit the fan. What about Wall Street and all the securities fraud? It sounds like the SEC was asleep at the wheel there too.

Just because you taught English in China doesn't mean you know anything about regulatory agencies of ANY country. You are just an ignoramus with an opinion.

 

[bluechinagroup]

Also in Hong Kong you have plenty of options for dairy products. I don't know ANY Hong Konger who buys Chinese dairy products, especially when we can buy high quality Australian and New Zealand dairy products. I wanted to squeeze this into my previous post, but I was too late to edit my post.

 

[cfnmedia]

What the fuck does any of this have to do with Willms?