You must consider to narrow down your age targeting and make 4 -10 campaing targeting specific age group. You will see that some ages are not click at all on your ads so stop them. If you find your winner bid more and you will see great results 
My POF Journey & Case Study
- Thread starter somebody113
- Start date
You must consider to narrow down your age targeting and make 4 -10 campaing targeting specific age group. You will see that some ages are not click at all on your ads so stop them. If you find your winner bid more and you will see great results
Hey, that's a solid point, I heard another guy mention that, that being said, isn't that information I can obtain via my conversion pixel(diagram below)? POF spits out all demographic info on your clicks/conversions right? So it would be best to stay broad and chop down as necessary? Do I need to create another unique campaign, if it's necessary/optimal, then by all means.
FYI, those aren't my stats, those are just sample stats
If so... If I'm testing 3 different age groups that means:
Original Campaign
Images : 34
Ad Copies : 2
68 Total Ads
New Campaign
Images : 34
Ad Copies : 2
Age Groups : 3
204 Total Ads
Is this right?
Why are you using the Session depth 1-10 exactly? Have you red Riley's case study results correctly...Cause he did male targeted campaigns, and even tough the 1-10 got the highest ctr's, he's lost the most money there & cvr was 3rd lowest of all...
Is the campaign profitable? Getting conversions at least?
Is the campaign profitable? Getting conversions at least?
I did read Riley's case study on session depth, the results seemed rather inconclusive.
At first I wasn’t getting enough data in the campaigns with the higher session depth counts, so I was constantly raising my bids in hopes of more traffic. Even after a full 7 days of running this campaign I didn’t have enough test data and was tired of running the campaign.
The only thing I found useful in the case study is that the highest CTR came from the users that had first logged in
I also read in the EWA guide that typically speaking you should be targeting a lower session depth for men and a higher session depth for women, though they didn't specify specific #'s to shoot for.
Bottom line, I think this is something that needs split testing, I had a few members say that I should be split testing age groups, which will bring me to
Images: 34
Ads: 2
Age Groups 3
204 Total Ads
We're spending $50/day at this point and bottom lien as long as its spent optimally I'm cool with it, should I toss some session depth testing in the mix?
Is the campaign profitable? Getting conversions at least?
POF is a little slower with this batch, put it in last night and still isn't approved. will update with results here ASAP
POF is a little slower with this batch, put it in last night and still isn't approved. will update with results here ASAP
No, if you're only targeting age groups 10 apart (i.e. 18-30, 30-40 etc) then you can just have the 68 ads. Once you've got the ideal ages from the conversion report, you can narrow down further using hand-testing, without the conversion report.
Cool, thanks joe, thanks for clarifying that, thats what I thought, still working with the AM to get my conversion pixel to work on my network.
Update 3-22
We removed session depth, Mr. Green has a blog post on session depth and he specifically says:
Anyways….
Lessons Learned/Things To Change
1. POF conversion is finally synced up with Neverblue using image based, though I would like to get the Iframe working if possible. I was a little confused about pixel tracking and to my surprise, it was quite a hassle getting set up and my tracking 202 still IS NOT working with NeverBlue what is it I'm doing wrong? This is the input I put into NeverBlue
Tools--> "Enter Your Non Site Specific Global Postback URL" --> "https://static.tracking202.com/rhb/j484273m6in2?subid="
2. I had a lot of people suggest breaking up the age groups, though I realized per Joe earlier in this thread(from WF) that I can just obtain that information from the conversion report, which by the way, how do I access that thing?
Does anyone know how to obtain this report from POF? I've clicked on every possible link in my POF...
3. We're only doing 1 campaign right now and our spending is definitely below our alotted budget, we'll be increase ad dollars, which means I need to haul ass and make more campaigns!
We removed session depth, Mr. Green has a blog post on session depth and he specifically says:
Anyways….
Case:
Target: White Women
Offer: Rich Men
Images : 34
Ad Copies : 2
Total Ad Copies: 68
CPM : Starting at 0.47
Demographics:
Gender: Female
Offer Only Accepts Chix
Age: 22 – 52
From Quantcast/GAP, Start Broad & Drill Down
Country: USA
Sticking with U.S for case
Marital Status: Single, Separated, Divorced
Obvious
Ethnicity: Caucasian
All photos are with White Men
Has Children: No
Avoid Single Moms/Pregos
Login Count: Less than 50
Per Riley’s Case Study
Campaign Stats:
CPM: 0.57
(though I was playing around with it in the evening time to see how it would change, .57 seemed pretty optimal though, after 1-2 days, we can start cutting images)
Impressions Delivered : 73282
CTR : .113%
CPC: $0.45
Total Spent : $34.33
Going to increase our spending to $100 & run more campaigns, but we're still getting our systems runningTarget: White Women
Offer: Rich Men
Images : 34
Ad Copies : 2
Total Ad Copies: 68
CPM : Starting at 0.47
Demographics:
Gender: Female
Offer Only Accepts Chix
Age: 22 – 52
From Quantcast/GAP, Start Broad & Drill Down
Country: USA
Sticking with U.S for case
Marital Status: Single, Separated, Divorced
Obvious
Ethnicity: Caucasian
All photos are with White Men
Has Children: No
Avoid Single Moms/Pregos
Login Count: Less than 50
Per Riley’s Case Study
Campaign Stats:
CPM: 0.57
(though I was playing around with it in the evening time to see how it would change, .57 seemed pretty optimal though, after 1-2 days, we can start cutting images)
Impressions Delivered : 73282
CTR : .113%
CPC: $0.45
Total Spent : $34.33
Total Conversions: 2
Loss/Profit - Loss
Loss/Profit - Loss
Lessons Learned/Things To Change
1. POF conversion is finally synced up with Neverblue using image based, though I would like to get the Iframe working if possible. I was a little confused about pixel tracking and to my surprise, it was quite a hassle getting set up and my tracking 202 still IS NOT working with NeverBlue what is it I'm doing wrong? This is the input I put into NeverBlue
Tools--> "Enter Your Non Site Specific Global Postback URL" --> "https://static.tracking202.com/rhb/j484273m6in2?subid="
2. I had a lot of people suggest breaking up the age groups, though I realized per Joe earlier in this thread(from WF) that I can just obtain that information from the conversion report, which by the way, how do I access that thing?
Does anyone know how to obtain this report from POF? I've clicked on every possible link in my POF...
3. We're only doing 1 campaign right now and our spending is definitely below our alotted budget, we'll be increase ad dollars, which means I need to haul ass and make more campaigns!
By the way guys, obviously I'm sticking in the dating vertical, should be Focusing on just 1 demographic or is it cool to test various dating offers on various demographics?
Haha, woot, I got it right!
and yeah, for conversion report, just go to the campaign, and click cross tab. You won't have conversions showing up yet, there's not enough, but they'll show up once you get a couple more.
Btw, why are you targeting age atm? Is the offer 21+? Cause if it's not, you could just remove that targeting option, with that wide a range, it's just raising your bid for no reason.
P.S. Do not up your spending limit to $100 a day yet! You've spent $34, ended up with about $6 back. Start scaling once you're profiting, no point in throwing away money.
Split test this with women who do have children. Why? Well if you're doing richmen angle, single moms need sugar daddies more so than women without kids right? You can even split test things like income/profession/education to see if there's an effect there w/ your richmen offer.
Also, breaking up your age group is something you SHOULD do. Why? Because the graphics of the men you're using SHOULD be something that is attractive to the woman. So a 22 yr old vs. a 50 yr old are NOT going have anything in common in terms of what they find attractive. So don't forget to optimize your graphics too
Also, breaking up your age group is something you SHOULD do. Why? Because the graphics of the men you're using SHOULD be something that is attractive to the woman. So a 22 yr old vs. a 50 yr old are NOT going have anything in common in terms of what they find attractive. So don't forget to optimize your graphics too
Yeah x2, when I said don't target age, that was more from an all or nothing standpoint, i.e. if you're targeting 21-50, you might as well remove the targeting.Also, breaking up your age group is something you SHOULD do. Why? Because the graphics of the men you're using SHOULD be something that is attractive to the woman. So a 22 yr old vs. a 50 yr old are NOT going have anything in common in terms of what they find attractive. So don't forget to optimize your graphics too
Split test this with women who do have children. Why? Well if you're doing richmen angle, single moms need sugar daddies more so than women without kids right? You can even split test things like income/profession/education to see if there's an effect there w/ your richmen offer.
Also, breaking up your age group is something you SHOULD do. Why? Because the graphics of the men you're using SHOULD be something that is attractive to the woman. So a 22 yr old vs. a 50 yr old are NOT going have anything in common in terms of what they find attractive. So don't forget to optimize your graphics too
OOOOkay, that makes so much sense now, optimal images for the diff ages groups, looks like I'll need to modify/tweak my campaign & add some more images for the different age groups now.
By the way, just wanted to say thanks to Joe, Gray, & Ben for the help, your guy's input, as little as it may seem on your part, is going to & has made a world of difference in my progression. Thank you guys for paying it forward!
FYI, turns out there was a problem with my offer & I fixed it, I did run my campaign the entire day today, and the losses were not as severe, only lost like $10, I can DEFINITELY see this working once I get some split testing & optimizing going. I'll post my results in the morning.
Cheers....
Update 3-25
Had a few guys mention breaking up age groups, but I just assumed that this was information you could obtain from your conversion pixel in POF, BUT, you will still need to optimize images for different age group, e.g 20 year old may not find a the same guy attractive as say a 50 year old.
Also, we were having issues with the original offer, the overall conversion rate was like less than 3% which seemed absurdly low, we swapped it out and the new offer was converting much better
For the sake of this case in specific , we did temporarily remove the age demographic, because since it was so wide to begin with, might as well remove it to lower our bid, BUT as mentioned earlier, we will be using 3 age groups in the next campaign
Lessons Learned/Things To Change
1. We're still having issues obtaining the conversion report on POF, I think it's because our conversion pixel is messed up, we're going to try using SUB-ID's instead of the
http://redirect.tracking202.com/dl/4621358765?t202kw=
That Tracking202 spits out, I think that's where the communication issue is, I dunno, we'll test it out and see
2. I had a lot of people suggest breaking up the age groups, though I realized per Joe earlier in this thread(from WF) that I can just obtain that information from the conversion report, which by the way, how do I access that thing?
Does anyone know how to obtain this report from POF? I've clicked on every possible link in my POF...
3. We'll be cutting the age groups accordingly this time around.....
Had a few guys mention breaking up age groups, but I just assumed that this was information you could obtain from your conversion pixel in POF, BUT, you will still need to optimize images for different age group, e.g 20 year old may not find a the same guy attractive as say a 50 year old.
Also, we were having issues with the original offer, the overall conversion rate was like less than 3% which seemed absurdly low, we swapped it out and the new offer was converting much better
For the sake of this case in specific , we did temporarily remove the age demographic, because since it was so wide to begin with, might as well remove it to lower our bid, BUT as mentioned earlier, we will be using 3 age groups in the next campaign
Case:
Target: White Women
Offer: Rich Men
Images : 34
Ad Copies : 2
Total Ad Copies: 68
CPM : Starting at 0.47
Demographics:
Gender: Female
Offer Only Accepts Chix
Country: USA
Sticking with U.S for case
Marital Status: Single, Separated, Divorced
Obvious
Ethnicity: Caucasian
All photos are with White Men
Has Children: No
Avoid Single Moms/Pregos
Login Count: Less than 50
Per Riley’s Case Study
Campaign Stats(With Fixed Offer):
CPM: 0.57
(though I was playing around with it in the evening time to see how it would change, .57 seemed pretty optimal though, after 1-2 days, we can start cutting images)
Impressions Delivered : 72266
CTR : .095%
CPC: $0.53
Total Spent : $36.71
Total Earned : $18.60
Loss/Profit - ($18.11) Loss
Target: White Women
Offer: Rich Men
Images : 34
Ad Copies : 2
Total Ad Copies: 68
CPM : Starting at 0.47
Demographics:
Gender: Female
Offer Only Accepts Chix
Country: USA
Sticking with U.S for case
Marital Status: Single, Separated, Divorced
Obvious
Ethnicity: Caucasian
All photos are with White Men
Has Children: No
Avoid Single Moms/Pregos
Login Count: Less than 50
Per Riley’s Case Study
Campaign Stats(With Fixed Offer):
CPM: 0.57
(though I was playing around with it in the evening time to see how it would change, .57 seemed pretty optimal though, after 1-2 days, we can start cutting images)
Impressions Delivered : 72266
CTR : .095%
CPC: $0.53
Total Conversions: 12
Total Spent : $36.71
Total Earned : $18.60
Loss/Profit - ($18.11) Loss
Lessons Learned/Things To Change
1. We're still having issues obtaining the conversion report on POF, I think it's because our conversion pixel is messed up, we're going to try using SUB-ID's instead of the
http://redirect.tracking202.com/dl/4621358765?t202kw=
That Tracking202 spits out, I think that's where the communication issue is, I dunno, we'll test it out and see
2. I had a lot of people suggest breaking up the age groups, though I realized per Joe earlier in this thread(from WF) that I can just obtain that information from the conversion report, which by the way, how do I access that thing?
Does anyone know how to obtain this report from POF? I've clicked on every possible link in my POF...
3. We'll be cutting the age groups accordingly this time around.....
With Regards to Cutting Age Up:
We did obtain the following data in our Cross Tab Reports:
Female Age Distribution
Total Clicks 92
Age 18 - 30
Clicks 72
Age 31-40
Clicks 20
Age 41-50
Clicks 0
Age 51-90
Clicks 0
I've decided we're going to cut up our groups into
18-25
26-32
33-40
Rationale & Reason for Types of Images in Each Group
Just my gut intuition but general thought process on my perception of what women would be looking for in those age groups and I'm going to do my best to pair up images. Again, these are just over generalizations
18-25 - Still in their prime, probably want a decent combination of a good looking guy with decent income. Probably willing to settle for a really good looking guy who makes low 6 figs that looks really good instead of an older guy.
26-32 - Starting to get ripe at this point and a good handful of their friends are getting married, probably looking to get hitched ASAP. Most likely realize at this point that looks aren't as important as stability and financial success. They realize their looks have begun deteriorating and may not be able to hold onto that younger guy and are willing to date older guys. They gotta start hustlin
33-40 - It's pretty game over at this point, all their friends are married with kids and it just sucks. Willing to settle for an old ass guy who's loaded, but on the same token too, if able to attract a somewhat younger guy that at least has a job, they might entertain the idea. But regardless, they're going to want to get those eggs fertilized ASAP, expiration date is coming up soon
Also gonna take Ben's advice and eventually split test women that are moms vs single women, professions, income, etc.
We did obtain the following data in our Cross Tab Reports:
Female Age Distribution
Total Clicks 92
Age 18 - 30
Clicks 72
Age 31-40
Clicks 20
Age 41-50
Clicks 0
Age 51-90
Clicks 0
I've decided we're going to cut up our groups into
18-25
26-32
33-40
Rationale & Reason for Types of Images in Each Group
Just my gut intuition but general thought process on my perception of what women would be looking for in those age groups and I'm going to do my best to pair up images. Again, these are just over generalizations
18-25 - Still in their prime, probably want a decent combination of a good looking guy with decent income. Probably willing to settle for a really good looking guy who makes low 6 figs that looks really good instead of an older guy.
The Photo Mix:
80% Younger guys, no older than 28, look like their having fun & wealthy
20% Older guys, early to late 30's, I think some girls, especially the ones in the 22-25 age bracket like the idea of a "mature" guy.
80% Younger guys, no older than 28, look like their having fun & wealthy
20% Older guys, early to late 30's, I think some girls, especially the ones in the 22-25 age bracket like the idea of a "mature" guy.
26-32 - Starting to get ripe at this point and a good handful of their friends are getting married, probably looking to get hitched ASAP. Most likely realize at this point that looks aren't as important as stability and financial success. They realize their looks have begun deteriorating and may not be able to hold onto that younger guy and are willing to date older guys. They gotta start hustlin
The Photo Mix:
40% Younger guys, no older than 28, look like their having fun & wealthy, the younger ones think they have a shot at having fun
60% Older guys, early to late 30's, maybe early 40's, this is more realistic for a woman in this age bracket, looks are starting to go downhill, they've got some cellulite coming in, confidence has probably taken somewhat of a blow.
40% Younger guys, no older than 28, look like their having fun & wealthy, the younger ones think they have a shot at having fun
60% Older guys, early to late 30's, maybe early 40's, this is more realistic for a woman in this age bracket, looks are starting to go downhill, they've got some cellulite coming in, confidence has probably taken somewhat of a blow.
33-40 - It's pretty game over at this point, all their friends are married with kids and it just sucks. Willing to settle for an old ass guy who's loaded, but on the same token too, if able to attract a somewhat younger guy that at least has a job, they might entertain the idea. But regardless, they're going to want to get those eggs fertilized ASAP, expiration date is coming up soon
The Photo Mix:
20% Younger guys, no older than 28, look like their having fun & wealthy
80% Older guys, late 30's to 50's, prolly just looking for an old rich guy that'll pay their bills @ this point, looks/sex is pretty secondary to stability.
20% Younger guys, no older than 28, look like their having fun & wealthy
80% Older guys, late 30's to 50's, prolly just looking for an old rich guy that'll pay their bills @ this point, looks/sex is pretty secondary to stability.
Also gonna take Ben's advice and eventually split test women that are moms vs single women, professions, income, etc.
well, the offer got paused by the network, lame sauce.....
AM's are out for the weekend and have to wait to get approval
AM's are out for the weekend and have to wait to get approval
^ why was he banned ?
as a side note, ben in the cross tab report, where you have the clicks/conversion rows for each category, it'll be great if there was a "conversion rate" row added to it (feature request)
makes it easier to see what's working in a given cat
as a side note, ben in the cross tab report, where you have the clicks/conversion rows for each category, it'll be great if there was a "conversion rate" row added to it (feature request)
makes it easier to see what's working in a given cat
x2, that'd be good.
Also, any chance of including ethnicity in the crosstabs?
(sorry to derail this thread, but meh, he's banned)
Also, any chance of including ethnicity in the crosstabs?
(sorry to derail this thread, but meh, he's banned)