Should suicide be condemned?

jfizzle

jfizzle

Senior Retirement Member
Jul 17, 2010
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In light on the discussion based on the girl who just committed suicide as well as two threads based a while back about someone's son who was bullied and whether or not home school was right. I want to discuss this matter in its entirety. Some WF members believe it's Darwinism that justifies suicide. I understand the fundamental notion of the argument, but yet I'm amazed to see the lack of evidence that points to suicide being a natural phenomenon rooted in our ancestors. They believe that the value of life is independent of the happiness of the individual living that life. The problem I have with the argument of Darwinism, is that people who commit suicide are not acting rationally, a lot of them, if they ride it out, will find fruitful and joyous lives. Furthermore

However, should I believe that someone like Amanda, should not be allowed to die? Should people have the right to kill themselves? If that is the case, couldn't we argue that the impediment of grief and misery onto the family is enough to claim it is wrong. Furthermore, are we obliged to stay alive if we really do not want to?

When these questions are asked, I find it hard to still argue the rightness or wrongness of such an issue. What I can't stand though, is the argument of Darwinism. Shouldn't the rationality of the individuals mind be acknowledged, shouldn't we kids like Amanda?

I know this topic may bore some of you, but when you dig deeper into it, its hard to justify the rightness or wrongness of such an issue. My family has never dealt with suicide, however, I have to a degree, dealt with euthanasia.
 


I've suicided in the past, and I was always worse off for it

(being reborn as an animal or going to hell, etc)


There are always consequences
 
It is NEVER ok to force someone to do anything at all with their lives, even keep it.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9y6g0PU2OIc]The Philosophy of Liberty - YouTube[/ame]
 
Asking if we should take away someones right to kill themselves is like asking if we should take away their right to think for themselves. They are basic freedoms that are almost impossible to take away even if you wanted to.
But I'm all for spreading the word that life often gets better (well until it gets worse again when you're old and almost dead).
 
troob said:
It depends on what happens after you die.
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Care to explain? Whatever happens after you die the outcome for family & friends of a person who committed suicide remains the same. There is no connection between the world of dead (if you believe it exists) and the world of people remaining alive.
 
I think people who commit suicide are weak and selfish - but I'll be fucking damned if some government faggot will tell me if I can end my shit.

tldr;
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.
 
I strongly believe in liberty, but I'm not as hardcore as others, I believe nearly all situations have exceptions and nuances. At the very heart of the issue, I believe that of course people should have the right to commit suicide. But I believe that most people who commit suicide do so because of mental health reasons.

I think a lot of people, especially on WF, will have differing views on what actually constitutes a mental health problem...whether it involves actual brain chemistry, whether "big pharma" should have a place in treatment, etc. While I believe that your average WF member is definitely more cynical than your average person, I refuse to believe that so many of you have nobody that you love. And I have a hard time believing that people who talk about social darwinism, when faced with someone they care about who is struggling with suicidal ideation, would say the same thing. They would want to help them, because they would rightly realize that suicidal thoughts are the result of a problem that can usually be fixed, whether you believe it to be brain chemistry or faulty cognitive thinking.

I believe people who want to commit suicide should be helped, although I can't personally give you an exact process, before allowing them to actually doing it.
 
If peple want to kill themselves, fair enough it is their life, do with it as you please.

If someone has been abused (verbally, mentally, physically) to a place where they feel that suicide is their only option, that is murder and a whole different kettle of fish
 
lukep said:
It is NEVER ok to force someone to do anything at all with their lives, even keep it.

The Philosophy of Liberty - YouTube
Click to expand...

That's a stupid thing to say.

Hope you idiots realize that a very large % of people who commit suicide are mentally ill and need therapy or some kind of assistance. If a perfectly rational and sane individual wanted to however, it is still a very selfish and illogical thing to do and they should be heavily discouraged from doing so.

What reason would there be to commit suicide apart from ending suffering? Individuals need to be taught that there are more constructive ways to overcome problems than END THEIR FUCKING LIVES. That improves society as a whole.

Evolution doesn't factor in here whatsoever, it only works on the VERY large scale. 1 million other factors could have contributed to his/her current actions. You just don't get it, do you? I'll humor you for a second. Assume it was the toxins being released in commercial goods that were causing people to act suicidally. So what, over a million years we would build a "natural resistance" to such toxins? What would be the expense of such a trait? A recessive tenancy to develop cystic fibrosis or some other nightmare? Evolution is NOT a progressive or good force at ALL! It's a fucking crap shoot, playing horrible odds where the house doesn't just win, it slaughters everyone who loses.
 
(O_o) said:
Why do you care if someone kills themselves or not?

If someone is dying or terminally ill they should have every right to die.

its a form of population control.
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I think it is because some backward shepard living on the eastern shore of the Mediterrenean said something about it like, err being bad a few thousand years ago or something.
 
Of course it should be condemned. If you take your own life, you go straight to Hell. I want to spit in the face of these people who talk about euthanasia and who actually help people kill themselves. It's like they're the spawn of Satan.
 
pewep said:
Hope you idiots realize that a very large % of people who commit suicide are mentally ill and need therapy or some kind of assistance. If a perfectly rational and sane individual wanted to however, it is still a very selfish and illogical thing to do and they should be heavily discouraged from doing so.
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In a truly free society I would suppose it is up to those closest to the mentally ill to convince him/her not to kill themselves. -But even then, just being mentally ill doesn't make suffering "OK." -If it's treatable, they should be treated, by the family's expense... If not, then it really must all come down to how much pain they are going through and how much their family loves them.

In the case of the OP, her family obviously didn't love her that much. Very sad, agreed, but she didn't have a way to make it all better so for you or the state to come in and force her to prolong her suffering is SICK.

Any attempt you make to refute that requires that you try to force your own judgement about how horrible suicide is onto her. Who are you to say it's so bad to someone who's suffering you cannot fathom?


pewep said:
Assume it was the toxins being released in commercial goods that were causing people to act suicidally. So what, over a million years we would build a "natural resistance" to such toxins? What would be the expense of such a trait? A recessive tenancy to develop cystic fibrosis or some other nightmare? Evolution is NOT a progressive or good force at ALL! It's a fucking crap shoot, playing horrible odds where the house doesn't just win, it slaughters everyone who loses.
Click to expand...
Evolution is not relevant to this entire thread. I don't understand why someone above brought it into this thread at all.

However, on the separate subject of evolution, saying that it's "NOT a good force at ALL!" is like saying carbon is not a good element at all.

Evolution just is. It doesn't give a shit if you think it should or not.

Why don't you go condemn how things get hot when you heat them up next?

In your example about the toxins, we shouldn't be talking about evolution... The correct solution would be for independent testing/review firms to publish the warning that this shit is poisonous before many people die in the first place.

You only think they wouldn't do so because your standards are derived within crony capitalism and you can't imagine a world without the government arresting anyone trying to compete with the FDA.
 
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