Talk about airing it all out. Thanks for your feedback.

[boatBurner]

Kiopa,

That's a great piece of advice. I'll be outlining some actionable steps based on it. So thank you.

I don't have a lot of faith in education, not with what I want to do. But if the government is saying, "Hey, we'll pay you $1,400/mo and pay for your school," then I think you've got to be crazy not to accept. If only for extra income and potential connections made amongst peers, going to school will be beneficial in this scenario.

Unfortunately, you need 8-10+ years (can't remember specifically) in the military to transfer GI Bill to dependents. So I'm the only one capable of using it.

I've heard some great advice, here and from trusted friends and family. I'm feeling good about this for now.

Also, I may take some time apart from WickedFire.

Jon went on a rant in a recent thread about the quality of people here at WickedFire and how the ones who do make it don't come back to contribute, and blah blah blah. I can't say how successful someone is over the other, but I love the idea of community. And damn it, this place needs more quality community-driven members (who wants community when you could be banking,right?) The hope is I find some long-term success and return to the place that polished me a bit.

 

[crackp0t]

I'm gonna go ahead and recommend you check out email marketing (double opt in). It's basically a surefire business with very little startup capital needed and you don't need to wait for fucking MONTHS to a year like seo to see your $ back. If you need a vault.bz invite holla.

No offense, but you have no clue how hard mailing actually is. You don't go get a dedicated server, mailchip account, etc push send then start making money. The learning curve is something insane and the capital required is on par with PPC. A decent MTA alone will cost you low give figures. Then you have to get data somehow. Don't forget servers and all that other stuff either.

If he's really going to go "double optin". He's going to have to either pay for PPC / PPV campaigns to generate the lists or some how get a crap load of seo traffic. I guess he could go buy a crap load of single optin lists and convert them over to a double optin. All of those options above cost a bit of money and require knowing how to do it effectively.

 

[EricVonDoobie]

Holy fuck OP @ you being so young and being married, not to mention having a huge ass family. Anyway, I'm willing to bet you have a gut feeling about which choice is better. Pick one and burn the boats. Good luck bros.

 

[cougarclaws]

Step 1. Learning how to properly use birth control.

 

[mgtarheels]

I'm gonna go ahead and recommend you check out email marketing (double opt in). It's basically a surefire business with very little startup capital needed and you don't need to wait for fucking MONTHS to a year like seo to see your $ back. If you need a vault.bz invite holla.

Just LOL.

 

[amateursurgeon]

Whatever you choose to do, get a vasectomy, if you'd ever like to consider not having to work at some point.

 

[CCarter]

I remember when I used to live in a shitty house, waste my time with children and shit.

Now I just count money all day.

Words of Wisdom.

Good luck bro.

 

[lukep]

You haven't been here that long, OP, but I bet you know exactly how I feel about staying in the military.

However, even if you set that aside, you still should run as fast as possible from any more duty simply because there is no avoiding a war with Iran soon, and both China & Russia have said they've got Iran's back... So joining now is literally a game of Russian roulette.

You probably have not been here long enough to see the intense threads we used to make on the value of higher education. My opinion on university is that it's only worth the money if you can get in someplace like Oxford; these american schools for instance do FAR more to hurt your chances of success than they do help. -And that opinion was formed before obomba decided he'd "fix" the student loan "crisis," too. (D'oh!)

So clearly, I'd advise you to stay away from options 1-5. (Unless you've been accepted to oxford, of course.)

But your last two options suck shit since you have kids. I cannot advise you to do something so risky when you're putting 4-5 innocent lives in jeopardy. (If it was just you'd I'd consider it riskworthy in a heartbeat.)

I'm not going to sugarcoat this because you don't have time: Hopefully, you are already aware that you dun fucked up bigtime by having 4 kids so early in life before you had the finances secured to take great care of them. This kind of mistake will impoverish you for life unless you make extraordinary efforts to overcome.

I'm talking about being the BEST at something, not just good enough, not even above average, but AWESOME at it. This certainly can't be something that you do on a salary or working for others, too... Or your awesomeness doesn't translate into dollars any more than flipping burgers would.

You not only have to be the best at a trade or skill, but you have to earn the top-tier of money for it, which means owning the business. -And that is your only option to not live in poverty for the rest of your life, period.

So to expand on Scott's awesome advice above, you need to own your own business and get started pronto doing something that makes money quickly.

Fuck school. (Unless you want to build debt and hurt your chances of future success.)
Fuck the Military. (Unless you want your kids to have no daddy.)
& Fuck working for others. (Unless you can be ok with being poor all your life.)

You've really got no other decent choices now; you've got to find something that you can do better than others, and become great at it, QUICKLY.

I wish I could give you more advice than that, but even If I knew you for years I couldn't say what you're going to be great at. The best I can do is remind you of the best business advice ever spoken, which is:

Ready, FIRE FIRE FIRE FIRE FIRE FUCKING FIRE, then aim.
Then fire again.
Then aim some more.
Then fire again.
etc...

If you're going to get great at something quick, you gotta hustle and not waste any time fucking around wondering what you're great at.

So get to it and don't stop trying something new until you've found it!

 

[justo_tx]

Facts worth noting:
1. I will get $1,400/mo in addition to paid tuition for going back to school. I intend to do this beginning January 2013. Computer science, software route.

I would not go to school, that will just be a waste of time. School will not teach you anything that you can not learn on your own on the Internet faster and for free. Learn what you need to know online, through your job and through your business attempts, not with school.

You probably have not been here long enough to see the intense threads we used to make on the value of higher education. My opinion on university is that it's only worth the money if you can get in someplace like Oxford; these american schools for instance do FAR more to hurt your chances of success than they do help.

TL;DR version = learn to code.

I say go to college and work on your CS (or MIS) degree while working/contracting/developing assets. It's certainly not a requirement, I'm a self taught developer (tried college but I was a shitty student) and once you've got some experience under your belt you can easily contract/consult/get a job to your heart's content. Experienced developers have ZERO problems finding work right now. Normally, I would be in the "skip college camp" with Lukep and Slayerment, but normally the tuition would be on your own dime. But it's not, it's on Slayerment's, Lukep's and my dime (taxes for GI Bill). In addition you would get PAID $1,400/mo. to go, so your opportunity cost equation is different from a lot of others considering financing college. The classes will cut down on some of the learning curve to becoming a developer that actually knows his ass from a hole in the ground and if you launch a successful consulting practice or product before you graduate then re-evaluate what the degree would get you (at that point probably not much).

Or you could take a calculated risk on a $6K immersion class in ruby on rails and building a shippable product in three months. Beware guru bullshit in this industry but this doesn't strike me as guru bs (37signals is the antithesis of that school of thought but you never know). You'd get the kind of knowledge that would translate to a consulting career if you don't build an actual product and it would probably work as cred if you wanted a job with a Silicon Valley-esque startup. But the ultimate goal is to build a product that would provide recurring income. The only problem: it appears you would have to live Chicago for three months (just tell your wife it's a different kind of deployment )

37signals invests in The Starter League - (37signals)
Starter League

Whatever you do, good luck bro (and get that vasectomy like AS suggested).

 

[Kiopa_Matt]

Or you could take a calculated risk on a $6K immersion class in ruby on rails and building a shippable product in three months.

I'm sorry, but DO NOT DO THAT! Learning to type code is easy, and anyone can do that. Google will provide you with all the education you need there, and for free.

Now developing products that convince people to part with their hard earned money is another matter. That part relies on your creativity and innovation, and that's not something you're going to learn by dropping $6k on some schooling.

 

[boatBurner]

Funny, because I'm actually considering Ruby on Rails. It's a juggle between being a "rockstar" or learning to dev for the iOS.

When I was 11, I was learning HTML and dabbling in Visual Basic. I dropped it for a while during high school. When I got back into the game, I only came equipped with a clear grasp of CSS/HTML and an idiot's navigational ability through PHP. Currently, I am not a dev.

Any dev advice regarding ROR vs. iOS? I do have a Mac (a PC as well) but bought the Mac purposely for the environment.

 

[justo_tx]

I'm sorry, but DO NOT DO THAT! Learning to type code is easy, and anyone can do that. Google will provide you with all the education you need there, and for free.

True...ish, if you program line of business apps you're right. But if you want to work on things like next gen networking or VOIP technologies or quant crunchers then a degree is required. (I'm a LOB programmer so no false superiority complexes here)

Now developing products that convince people to part with their hard earned money is another matter. That part relies on your creativity and innovation, and that's not something you're going to learn by dropping $6k on some schooling.

Come on, you can't expect everybody to fall into landing page and sales funnel optimizations insights on their own can you? The Starter League course "appears" to take the 5% of a marketing degree track that would apply to a product creator and distill it down for a product launch. Like I said, it might be bs, but if the OP does some research and maybe finds out if there are any product creators that went through the program it could be a more direct route to his goals (note, I didn't say substitute for doing the actual work).

 

[justo_tx]

Funny, because I'm actually considering Ruby on Rails. It's a juggle between being a "rockstar" or learning to dev for the iOS.

Knowing how to code RoR won't make you a "rockstar" (and there are iOS "rockstars", see Marco something-or-other, the guy who built Instapaper). No offense, but at 25 with 4 kids you won't ever get tagged as a "rockstar" unless you build a startup with massive amounts of VC backing (which is orthogonal to the responsibilities of a man with family) or spend your time building an open source product that get's massive traction but brings you fame but very little money until several years later (exceptions are black swans like the Django guy). "Rockstars" are marketing myths perpetuated by VC looking for fresh meat for the SV startup sausage grinder.

Any dev advice regarding ROR vs. iOS? I do have a Mac (a PC as well) but bought the Mac purposely for the environment.

If you get even competent at either you won't have problems finding work. IMHO, I would skew towards RoR personally because you can use responsive layouts to accommodate mobile browsers and still target non iOS users but if you want a job or just contracting gigs iOS is definitely the hew hotness. (Just be wary of sacrificing yourself on the alter of the Apple app store looking to hit the 99 cent app store jackpot as an indie dev)

 

[shindig]

I'm back in school and get another $2500 back on my taxes from it thanks to good ol' obama.

American Opportunity Tax Credit

I also get a fucking shit ton of software as a student for free or dirt cheap. Game engine discount, every version of windows(via dreamspark account), tons of shit.

Definitely do it, empower yourself to be worth something remotely, real freedom...

 

[boatBurner]

Knowing how to code RoR won't make you a "rockstar" (and there are iOS "rockstars", see Marco something-or-other, the guy who built Instapaper). No offense, but at 25 with 4 kids you won't ever get tagged as a "rockstar" unless you build a startup with massive amounts of VC backing (which is orthogonal to the responsibilities of a man with family) or spend your time building an open source product that get's massive traction but brings you fame but very little money until several years later (exceptions are black swans like the Django guy). "Rockstars" are marketing myths perpetuated by VC looking for fresh meat for the SV startup sausage grinder.



If you get even competent at either you won't have problems finding work. IMHO, I would skew towards RoR personally because you can use responsive layouts to accommodate mobile browsers and still target non iOS users but if you want a job or just contracting gigs iOS is definitely the hew hotness. (Just be wary of sacrificing yourself on the alter of the Apple app store looking to hit the 99 cent app store jackpot as an indie dev)

Thanks for the feedback, truly. And I use the term "rockstar" sarcastically. As someone who seems informed, would you recommend any worthwhile dev communities?

I've heard the RoR community can be hard to break into. Just looking for a good starting point for making connections.

 

[justo_tx]

As someone who seems informed, would you recommend any worthwhile dev communities?

I've heard the RoR community can be hard to break into. Just looking for a good starting point for making connections.

I don't know where you are, or will end up being after your discharge, but if it's anywhere other than the San Francisco area I'd probably just get the basics of RoR or iOS under your belt and if your goal is to contract start hitting up local startup mixers and Chamber of Commerce meetings (where the people with real problems need somebody motivated and hungry). You aren't (and won't be for awhile be) at the level where you can land a job just off your Stackoverflow or Github reps.

To be honest, I got my start consulting years ago when my day job boss referred me to the boss of his wife's company as a side gig, not because other developers knew who I was. Use your existing networks. There must be other guys coming off deployments that are thinking of starting something of their own or maybe their wives already have, can you help them and build a small app that you can use as a calling card while simultaneously cutting your teeth?

 

[boatBurner]

I don't know where you are, or will end up being after your discharge, but if it's anywhere other than the San Francisco area I'd probably just get the basics of RoR or iOS under your belt and if your goal is to contract start hitting up local startup mixers and Chamber of Commerce meetings (where the people with real problems need somebody motivated and hungry). You aren't (and won't be for awhile be) at the level where you can land a job just off your Stackoverflow or Github reps.

To be honest, I got my start consulting years ago when my day job boss referred me to the boss of his wife's company as a side gig, not because other developers knew who I was. Use your existing networks. There must be other guys coming off deployments that are thinking of starting something of their own or maybe their wives already have, can you help them and build a small app that you can use as a calling card while simultaneously cutting your teeth?

Heading to Phoenix. I know one guy with potential, but it's the Marine Corps, and I'm surrounded by idiots (for all intents and purposes, I'm leaps and bound more intelligent than the average Marine, but then again, I enlisted, so...)

The dev world seems overwhelming. I try to shrug off the whole "you missed the bus" thing.

 

[blogspotter]

Not sure why many people think School is a Big risk. It is least riskiest thing today. And Obama is paying for your education. I haven't seen a lot of people not doing well after getting a good education.

Now I have seen plenty of people who are impoverished due to lack of education. There are many people who did well without education, but those are few. So that is a lot more riskier. But a good educations is something that don't go waste.

Yesterday I replied long and then deleted.. What I mean is education will not stop you from being a business owner. I have several cousins and a brother who makes way more than 100K "working for others". Doesn't stop them from coding in their free time to develop cools iPhone apps, and other shit.

Because other than going back to school, you don't seem to know a lot about business. And with 4 kids in tow, is it time to see if you are good in Lead gen?
You can learn RoR while studying. You can also try to build iPhone Apps while in college. Even learn the Nuances of lead gen.

What I mean is it is not like you are leaving behind a thriving lead gen business to go to school.

 

[justo_tx]

The dev world seems overwhelming. I try to shrug off the whole "you missed the bus" thing.

Fuck that thinking. We may bust your balls but it sounds like you've got the capacity for more discipline and focus than a lot around here. As far as missing the bus, don't sweat it, even though based off your specific circumstances I said go to college, whether you go or not, development (like SEO or leadgen) is a true meritocracy.

 

[boatBurner]

Not sure why many people think School is a Big risk. It is least riskiest thing today. And Obama is paying for your education. I haven't seen a lot of people not doing well after getting a good education.

Now I have seen plenty of people who are impoverished due to lack of education. There are many people who did well without education, but those are few. So that is a lot more riskier. But a good educations is something that don't go waste.

Yesterday I replied long and then deleted.. What I mean is education will not stop you from being a business owner. I have several cousins and a brother who makes way more than 100K "working for others". Doesn't stop them from coding in their free time to develop cools iPhone apps, and other shit.

Because other than going back to school, you don't seem to know a lot about business. And with 4 kids in tow, is it time to see if you are good in Lead gen?
You can learn RoR while studying. You can also try to build iPhone Apps while in college. Even learn the Nuances of lead gen.

What I mean is it is not like you are leaving behind a thriving lead gen business to go to school.

You're absolutely right. I feel like I'm racing a clock, as if this is the small window of opportunity I have before I really have to bite the bullet for the rest of my life.

The whole concept of wanting to say I'm the exception to the rule. You guys are really putting it into perspective though, and for that I really appreciate the input.