This shit is crazy. These big banks be robbing us blind!

iPwnNoobs

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Judge orders Wells Fargo to pay back $203M in fees

Judge orders Wells Fargo to change overdraft policy, return $203 million in fees to customers


NEW YORK (AP) -- A federal judge in California ordered Wells Fargo & Co. to change what he called "unfair and deceptive business practices" that led customers into paying multiple overdraft fees, and to pay $203 million back to customers.
In a decision handed down late Tuesday, U.S. District Judge William Alsup accused Wells Fargo of "profiteering" by changing its policies to process checks, debit card transactions and bill payments from the highest dollar amount to the lowest, rather than in the order the transactions took place. That helped drain customer bank accounts faster and drive up overdraft fees, a policy Alsup referred to as "gouging and profiteering."
Wells Fargo adopted the policies beginning in 2001, and they became widespread across the banking industry. It is unclear how the ruling would apply to the rest of the industry.
The ruling detailed the experiences of two Wells Fargo customers who used their debit cards for multiple small purchases, and were then charged hundreds in overdraft fees because the order the purchases were cleared by the bank depended on the amounts. The judge found the customers, who were part of a class action, were not properly informed of the bank's policies on processing payments and were unaware the bank would allow debit purchases to go through when their accounts were overdrawn.
"Internal bank memos and e-mails leave no doubt that, overdraft revenue being a big profit center, the bank's dominant, indeed sole, motive was to maximize the number of overdrafts," Alsup wrote. That policy would "squeeze as much as possible" from customers with overdrafts, in particular from the 4 percent of customers who paid what he called "a whopping 40 percent of its total overdraft and returned-item revenue."
The judge dismissed Wells Fargo's arguments that customers wanted and benefited from the policies, and detailed evidence he said showed efforts to obscure the practices in statements and other materials. Wells Fargo's online banking system, for example, would display pending purchases in chronological order, "leading customers to believe that the processing would take place in that order."
"The supposed net benefit of high-to-low resequencing is utterly speculative," he wrote. "Its bone-crushing multiplication of additional overdraft penalties, however, is categorically assured."
Alsup also criticized the bank for allowing overdraft purchases after accounts had been drained by offering a "shadow line of credit" that customers were unaware existed.
The decision noted that the Federal Reserve has outlawed some of the practices detailed in the case, most notably debit card overdrafts permitted without customers agreeing to accept overdraft protection.
Judge Alsup ordered Wells Fargo to stop posting transactions in high-to-low order by Nov. 30 and to reverse overdraft fees charged to customers from Nov. 15, 2004, to June 30, 2008, as a result of the policy. A study cited in the decision by a Wells Fargo witness put the restitution at "close to $203 million."
Wells Fargo spokeswoman Richele Messick said the bank is "disappointed" with the ruling. "We don't believe the ruling is in line with the facts of this case and we plan to appeal," she said.
Messick noted that Wells Fargo changed its policies earlier this year, and customers can no longer incur more than four overdraft charges in one day.
Wells Fargo shares closed Wednesday trading down $1.47, or 5.3 percent, at $26.30, as the broader markets dropped sharply on economic concerns, with banks being particularly hard hit.
The case, heard in the U.S. District Court for Northern California, is Gutierrez vs. Wells Fargo.
 


$203m for 15m people (assuming 5% of all Americans bank with Wells) = $14/person

pretty crazy
 
$203m for 15m people (assuming 5% of all Americans bank with Wells) = $14/person

pretty crazy

I've read figures between $20 billion and $35 billion that the banking industry pulled in in 2009 from overdraft fees. If a company the size of Wells Fargo only had to payback $203 million their board of directors must be laughing their fucking balls off as they write the check.
 
My response might not be as popular with most people, and I also understand how much of a pain in the ass ovedraft fees are (I've been hit with like 5 at $45 a piece this year).. but, they're still mostly your fault. I was too busy juggling multiple bank accounts and payments that I screwed up my paperwork and suffered fees. Take responsibility for it, it can easily be avoided. The worst are the people who use their debit card to buy food or something and realize they got no cash. To me, I'm just like 'wot, lol?' How can you not know that your only bank account has no money? No wonder you're going to stay in poverty forever. BTW, protip: go to your bank and bitch loud enough and you'll get the charges taken off, it's in the bank policy and know multiple people who've fixed their overdraft fees.
 
Local Banks FTW

This.

Just opened an account with a local credit union. No ATM fees (refunded at the end of every month), no overdraft fees, no wire fees, no yearly fees. Fucking perfect.

Have a friend with the same credit union. Dude went to Moscow on vacation and got charged $37 (lol) at an ATM there. No kidding, it's the most expensive city to live in. They actually refunded him the money though, which blew my mind.
 
This.

Just opened an account with a local credit union. No ATM fees (refunded at the end of every month), no overdraft fees, no wire fees, no yearly fees. Fucking perfect.

Have a friend with the same credit union. Dude went to Moscow on vacation and got charged $37 (lol) at an ATM there. No kidding, it's the most expensive city to live in. They actually refunded him the money though, which blew my mind.

I don't know about overdraft fees, but HSBC does all of that for me too... Plus it's 1.10% APY.

Online Savings, Online Payment and Online CD Accounts
 
My response might not be as popular with most people, and I also understand how much of a pain in the ass ovedraft fees are (I've been hit with like 5 at $45 a piece this year).. but, they're still mostly your fault. I was too busy juggling multiple bank accounts and payments that I screwed up my paperwork and suffered fees. Take responsibility for it, it can easily be avoided. The worst are the people who use their debit card to buy food or something and realize they got no cash. To me, I'm just like 'wot, lol?' How can you not know that your only bank account has no money? No wonder you're going to stay in poverty forever. BTW, protip: go to your bank and bitch loud enough and you'll get the charges taken off, it's in the bank policy and know multiple people who've fixed their overdraft fees.

I do agree it's the persons fault.

However, logic would tell you charges would hit in the order you made them. *making up completely retarded argument here* So you make several small purchases (say 10 x$10). You now pay you're light bill. You know this is going to over draft, but need to pay the bill so do it anyhow. It would hit first then you'd get hit with 10 over draft charges.

That is basically the problem with it. They were forcing the 10 over draft charges when in reality there should have been 1.
 
I hope this ends up applying to Chase as well. Fucking cocksuckers raped me in overdraft fees.

This thread actually got me to call my friend who explained to me recently that Chase raped him with the same reordering bullshit.

His mom ended up Googling the CEO of Chase, communicating with him directly, and he dropped the fees.

Now with this as a clear precedent, you can probably handle this in the bank's branch. Just remind them that Wells Fargo got fucked.
 
Interesting... Largest class action in Australian history is about to commence over a similar issue. Basically it's illegal in Australia to charge more than the reasonable cost of recovery for late payments/overlimit etc. Punitive charges are not allowed at all but banks have been doing it for years because no one seemed to know that.

I think they have over 100,000 participants so far and likely to be several hundred to several thousand per person as the claims go back 6 years (statute of limitations) and will include interest.
 
I think anyone that gets an overdraft fee should be charged out the ass, but you've got to make your terms clear and stick away from dirty, sneaky shit like this. I've never gotten an overdraft fee in my life and if I did it would be my own damned fault. Not sure if you've got enough money in your account? Check it. It's called being responsible. If you're at the grocery store with a cart full of shit, use your emergency credit card. That's what it's there for. Get a decent credit card with a 30 day grace period and never pay a penny in interest. Use it in case of emergencies like if you don't know if you have enough money in your account to cover a particular transaction, then pay the fucker off immediately to avoid giving these bastards any money.
 
These banks are a total rip-off! They play with the numbers, slow down payouts when convenient, speed up payouts when it benefits them. They might as well have a ski mask on. Not everyones account is padded, and calling the minute before a purchase to check your balance does not mean you are safe when you are living check to check, trust me I know from experience.

Now that I do have a padded account I see why some folks cannot see the poor mans plight, but it doesn't mean it's not a very real element of society and economy. The rich designing a system to act as a deer tick and suck the lifeblood from middle America is criminal.

You can take responsibility for your mistakes and get ripped off at the same time.
 
$203m for 15m people (assuming 5% of all Americans bank with Wells) = $14/person

pretty crazy

Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008 = $4,635 per working American

Iraq & Afghanistan wars = $7,000+ per working American


just sayin', lolz
 
Cept with a local bank if you get your wallet stolen and bunch of crap charged, while you won't be held accountable for it due to it being theft and all, half of them will actually tell you to take your business elsewhere after the ordeals been resolved. (had that happen at a local bank here in michigan, and heard of it happening to others).