What do they call it when employees who don't want to unionized are harassed and bullied into it?
USPS paying people $25/hour to do nothing, unions, etc
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What do they call it when employees who don't want to unionized are harassed and bullied into it?
It depends on the labor agreement the union has with the company, and if it's an open or closed union. I believe all federal unions including the Postal Service are open unions - where they have a union in place but your not required to join it or pay dues.
Here's a good piece on the public school system authored by a guy who has had to "work with" the teachers union to improve results:
The Failure of American Schools - Magazine - The Atlantic
Some of his stories are jarring. They are an indictment against unions in the public sector. Furthermore, many of the outcomes he describes can be observed in the private sector.
If you have the time, it's worth a read.
The Failure of American Schools - Magazine - The Atlantic
Some of his stories are jarring. They are an indictment against unions in the public sector. Furthermore, many of the outcomes he describes can be observed in the private sector.
If you have the time, it's worth a read.
obviously you've never been stuck in the middle of an intense union negotiation.
fucked up death threats and having to have security is so much fun! :ugone2far:
We are specifically talking about labor unions Moxie.
I have no idea how this is relevant. We're not talking about Walmart, we're talking about labor unions.
They outsource it to the government. Likewise, welfare recipients don't hold a gun to people's heads.
This entire line of discussion isn't fruitful. Sometimes it feels like you are trolling me, sometimes not. Sometimes I think you're brilliant, other times, sort of an idiot. Either my compass is broke, or you're not very consistent or precise in the arguments you choose to pursue.
I've detailed the case against labor unions qua labor unions elsewhere on WF and here. If you want to argue semantics, find another dance partner, I have no interest in that.
Just wait till companies can no longer afford unions, you'll find out rather quick that the union bosses care about one thing - themselves.
A Union, for those who can't see it, is the very concept of Communism forced upon a business. Everything they do is communistic in nature and for this fact alone they will eventually fail and fail hard.
To answer the OP's question about how to stop them happening to your biz:
The moment they say "we're organizing" you simply say, "No need; we're moving."
Basically make it a policy to not be where those worthless, whiny bitches are.
As others have stated here though, to save yourself the hassle of this move, simply treat your workers well and they won't have a reason to organize.
/Thread
To answer the OP's question about how to stop them happening to your biz:
The moment they say "we're organizing" you simply say, "No need; we're moving."
Basically make it a policy to not be where those worthless, whiny bitches are.
As others have stated here though, to save yourself the hassle of this move, simply treat your workers well and they won't have a reason to organize.
/Thread
I am pro-union (to a degree) and pro strong labor laws; However, you are misguided in thinking that a UPSP worker should earn $25 an hour because they "want to".
Unions are in place to make sure they don't get screwed by big corporation. Unfortunately, this union power has turned for the worse forcing large enough profit reduction into the red.
Union bosses generally have less business acumen than their CEO counter-parts and these bosses force these CEO's into business decisions that negatively effect the company. The issue in America is the legislative power has shifted far onto the union's side rendering union companies at a major disadvantage to their competitors. (A union should only have mild effects on an ethically run business)
My plan for when I'm an uber CEO, is to create good enough benefits to keep my employee's from unionizing as well as keep measures in place to ensure they don't.
Should have had a pole with this thread. USPS is going to fail without massive "bailouts" from the gubment' which will bite us in the ass.
The pepsi can factory here just unionized. They have a huge huge waiting list of people who were wanting to work there BEFORE they unionized.
Every employee gets a lawyer on retainer, a million dollar health insurance policy, start out at over $50k a year, raises are generous, one person I know makes $90k/year there.
They also only work 3 days a week.
And they STILL unionized.
Even worse, the union hasn't done a single thing for them (do they really have to?), but they are now taking $160.00/month out of everyone's paychecks for union dues.
They posted all employees votes publicly for everyone to see, and anyone who did not vote to unionize was harassed at work until they changed their vote.
The union bosses are just doing a giant money grab, they want to go after everyone to get union dues out of them. I've heard sound bites about union bosses wanting to try to get even independent contractors to unionize. How that would work, no idea.
Bending over backwards for your employee's wont keep these greedy union bosses grubby hands off your payroll if they see any money in trying to take a piece of your business.
You guys would love Spain. Labor laws here make it seem like the entire country is one big union. Employment law in Spain | Holidays | Contracts | Hiring Employees | Regulations | Spanish-Living.com Now the country is broke with massive unemployment.
Not surprising.
The gubments legislation regarding union's power needs to change. Unions tend to be poison unless they have leadership that understands how to keep both the employee's and employers best interest a priority
Haha no trolling here, but if anything your compass is very black or white and you sometimes label with a broad brush. I would not have replied if you specifically said something like "overall the major labor unions with unfair government support are harmful to the nation."
Instead by saying "unions" you are criticizing all those in the 1800s as well as something like the NBA players union, which is currently in negotiations. How is the NBA union a cartel or how is it getting government to hold a gun to the head of the owners?
The players joining forces to collectively bargain is a smart business move on their part, just like it is smart for them to hire agents. Self-interest is a major part of a free market.
When people on here bash companies, such as Walmart, you will point out that it is a problem with government backed corporatism and not with the concept of people forming companies. Either that or you will say something like "too bad, deal with it, start your own company and do a better job."
I'm pointing out the same type of things in regards to unions. Governments give then unfair advantages, and when they don't I would say "too bad, deal with it, replace them with other workers or don't give them a reason in the first place to want to form a union."
Mox,
I think you are hung up on trying to prove some sort of double standard I have, to the point you're twisting the argument into one I am not making.
I am never against voluntary relationships. Unions in America are not based on voluntary relationships. If they were, I would not have an issue with them, the way you claim I would not have an issue with Walmart.
If you have an actual point to make about unions qua labor unions, then please make it. But everyone else here seems to be talking about one thing, and you another. And that's not useful.
I think you are hung up on trying to prove some sort of double standard I have, to the point you're twisting the argument into one I am not making.
I am never against voluntary relationships. Unions in America are not based on voluntary relationships. If they were, I would not have an issue with them, the way you claim I would not have an issue with Walmart.
If you have an actual point to make about unions qua labor unions, then please make it. But everyone else here seems to be talking about one thing, and you another. And that's not useful.
I only came into this thread to say that I have a package that was supposed to be delivered three days ago that still hasn't arrived via USPS. So fuck them.
I think your missing moxie's point.
He is saying:
"Just because a FEW LABOR UNIONS are bad, does not mean that the concept of unions is bad"
Like saying that because some hackers are evil does not mean all hacking is evil.
If a few unions are 'evil' like you describe, that does not mean that they are representative of the true meaning of unions. Which simply implies collective bargaining. Something that I think fits very well into your world vision of freedom and markets.
My grandfather who has the same first/last name as me was one of the founding fathers of the AFL-CIO. He also ran for us senate and governor of Michigan as a socialist. yaaaay.
