What's the point of "Occupy Wall Street"?

[lukep]

Totally see your point.. but what your describing is what's going to happen if we do nothing. But.. this could be really bad timing.

I've said it before but it bears repeating:

The revolution will never come. When someone tries to start one, 95% of america will want to get a good, comfy seat to watch it on TV.

This nation has become a bunch of couch potatoes whose only big decision to make involving current events is which network to catch them on... Then when you consider the twists and blackouts by all of our approved media, especially Faux News, it's pretty obvious that a large portion of the country will be convinced that the OWS army is a bunch of domestic Terrorists trying to kill everyone else here outright in Allah's name.

 

[jenzkc]

Did you just fucking wake up after a Decade in a coma?

Since the last time a "bunch of terrorists" attacked US soil, we've lost SHITLOADS of freedoms and not nearly enough americans gave a shit!

The revolution will never come. When someone tries to start one, 95% of america will want to get a good, comfy seat to watch it on TV.

Times seem to be changing...

 

[MSTeacher]

Big danger is that it's easy for counterintelligence to show up, blend in, and then act irresponsibly, pop a few rounds into the air, or start talking about blowing up a building or something to get others riled up, and then the whole lot is demonized in the media and the party's spoiled. Or bring in a bunch of whiny gun grabber activists and derail the focus. Let's hope they brought their agent provocateur detection devices.

 

[lukep]

Times seem to be changing...

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Case in point: OWS. Like the hippy protests of the 70s, there was no leader & no true central focus. It garnered a shitload of publicity but it changed jack shit.

Sounds familiar?

I'd fucking LOVE to see OWS change some things for the better, but right now there is zero chance of that happening and if more guns get involved, there is a VERY HIGH chance of more of our freedoms being taken away.

 

[lose lose win]

I don't think your taking into account the financial desperation factor. The hippies knew shit was fucked, but they weren't desperate enough. It may be that your right and that the revolution never comes, and that we just accept this fucking parasite of a god damned government, breathing more and more down our necks, but this isn't the same as the hippy protests.. There are different emotions involved in this one, and they are more widespread than people realize.

 

[lukep]

I don't think your taking into account the financial desperation factor.

Funny you should mention this.

Yesterday my wife & I interviewed some housecleaners for my personal home. We're tired of the maid services and wanted to hire from craigslist to help some people in the community as well as have more flexibility on what they will clean. So we explicitly asked for a part time housecleaner in the ad.

So we weeded out lots that had inflexible hours and other incompatibilities with us and we agree to meet and listen to about 5 different ladies in person. By the end I'm tired as all fuck but guess what...

Every last one of them was on welfare, food stamps, and has family assistance for their 2-5 children.

5/5 welfare queens, here in freaking Kansas!

Sounds like a horrible economy, right?

Well it gets deeper...

Since we explicitly asked for part-time only in our ad, each person opened up to us enough to tell us about the welfare and food stamps; otherwise we wouldn't have known.

Why part-time specifically? Because if they took a full-time job they'd HAVE TO REPORT INCOME AND LOSE ALL THEIR WELFARE.

So what this country has done is create a class of people who not only don't pay taxes, but completely falsify their earnings to the IRS in order to collect welfare and income at the same time. They weren't even embarrassed at all to tell us this!

And this isn't even including any illegal alien issues... Only 1 of the 5 was Hispanic. This is just normal people here in an upper-class part of the city. One of these chicks had a prada bag and all of them looked dressed pretty nicely... No goodwill styles here!

So my point is that the desperation isn't so bad for everyone... Lots are PROFITING off the ability to blame shit on the bad economy and stay on welfare, collecting my tax money while still working all the time.

Another obvious example is the protesters at OWS themselves; they don't seem to be so broke that they can't afford to eat while living in a tent for months at a time... I can't imagine what it would cost to survive in Zucatti park for a month while not working...

There are different emotions involved in this one, and they are more widespread than people realize.

That's more of a hindrance than a helper. Too many people there want such different things it makes the group taken as a whole look like a dithering fool. It is simply incapable of any action except perhaps retaliation.

 

[geomark]

 

[jenzkc]

I don't think your taking into account the financial desperation factor. The hippies knew shit was fucked, but they weren't desperate enough. It may be that your right and that the revolution never comes, and that we just accept this fucking parasite of a god damned government, breathing more and more down our necks, but this isn't the same as the hippy protests.. There are different emotions involved in this one, and they are more widespread than people realize.

the "hippy protests" were a moral protest against the vietnam war. they weren't affected financially unlike the protesters these days.

and to the person above me, it doesn't matter what your financial situation is. the protests are about the government fucking over people by printing money, financial deregulation and bank/corporate bailouts. these things affect everyone. if you're not pissed off about that shit you're a blind sheep no matter what % you are.

 

[Pseudo Nym]

Funny you should mention this.

Yesterday my wife & I interviewed some housecleaners for my personal home. We're tired of the maid services and wanted to hire from craigslist to help some people in the community as well as have more flexibility on what they will clean. So we explicitly asked for a part time housecleaner in the ad.

So we weeded out lots that had inflexible hours and other incompatibilities with us and we agree to meet and listen to about 5 different ladies in person. By the end I'm tired as all fuck but guess what...

Every last one of them was on welfare, food stamps, and has family assistance for their 2-5 children.

5/5 welfare queens, here in freaking Kansas!

Sounds like a horrible economy, right?

Well it gets deeper...

Since we explicitly asked for part-time only in our ad, each person opened up to us enough to tell us about the welfare and food stamps; otherwise we wouldn't have known.

Why part-time specifically? Because if they took a full-time job they'd HAVE TO REPORT INCOME AND LOSE ALL THEIR WELFARE.

So what this country has done is create a class of people who not only don't pay taxes, but completely falsify their earnings to the IRS in order to collect welfare and income at the same time. They weren't even embarrassed at all to tell us this!

And this isn't even including any illegal alien issues... Only 1 of the 5 was Hispanic. This is just normal people here in an upper-class part of the city. One of these chicks had a prada bag and all of them looked dressed pretty nicely... No goodwill styles here!

So my point is that the desperation isn't so bad for everyone... Lots are PROFITING off the ability to blame shit on the bad economy and stay on welfare, collecting my tax money while still working all the time.

I dunno man. Can you really blame those ladies? They're just hustling to get ahead, or stay in the game at least. Calling them "welfare queens"... how many "queens" apply for work as a maid?

Those social programs you're complaining about them abusing account for ~$284b, or about 8% of the total US federal budget. Meanwhile, defense spending is $903b, or 25% (numbers from here). What can I say... it bothers me more that the .gov spends $70k a pop to turn some sandal-wearing Afghanis into charred meat than it does when some financially ignorant welfare mom blows her check on a prada bag. But that's just me.

 

[Kiopa_Matt]

Like the hippy protests of the 70s, there was no leader & no true central focus. It garnered a shitload of publicity but it changed jack shit.

It changed loads of shit. Who do you many of the current policy makers are? Lots of those guys are ex-hippies, free love, sex, drugs, rock & roll, etc. Then they got old, and moved into government and corporatism.

That's maybe even why the US ended up with such a "no holds barred" approach to everything.

 

[MSTeacher]

Those social programs you're complaining about them abusing account for ~$284b, or about 8% of the total US federal budget. Meanwhile, defense spending is $903b, or 25% (numbers from here). What can I say... it bothers me more that the .gov spends $70k a pop to turn some sandal-wearing Afghanis into charred meat than it does when some financially ignorant welfare mom blows her check on a prada bag. But that's just me.

And me.

 

[geomark]

And me. Hey, what percent does that make us?

 

[MSTeacher]

And me. Hey, what percent does that make us?

lulz

 

[lukep]

I dunno man. Can you really blame those ladies? They're just hustling to get ahead, or stay in the game at least. Calling them "welfare queens"... how many "queens" apply for work as a maid?

5/5 so far... I can't interview everyone though.

What can I say... it bothers me more that the .gov spends $70k a pop to turn some sandal-wearing Afghanis into charred meat than it does when some financially ignorant welfare mom blows her check on a prada bag. But that's just me.

And me too; but Why the FUCK did you bring military spending into this conversation? I was simply pointing out how warped the entitlements system is and how I had some first hand experience lately of it... I made no comparrison to the other financial disasters befalling this country.

 

[guerilla]

lulz.

I don't support the notions of WE the people or lobbying. Luke does.

I accept the system, albeit begrudgingly, because working alternatives involving its absence are unavailable and I'm not holding my breath waiting for that to change.

And lack the will or capacity to effect change, so basically, you'll settle for whatever you get, and then defend it like you made a conscious choice?

Is it not equally or more worth condemning a conclusion such as 'the state is a violent monopoly, its absence must be better than its presence, just have to accept that.'

I'm not asking you to accept anything. I think the question you dance around here, is why you think we need a violent monopoly, and why we can't do better (in your mind) than a violent monopoly.

Ultimately, these discussions don't come down to gotcha trolls, or "Guerilla is an anarcho-capitalist". The baseline for a civil society is voluntary relations and a respect for each individual. If you endorse violating individual liberty and preventing voluntary action as necessary, then what exactly is so great about your system?

These are rhetorical questions. Ultimately, you have to be able to satisfy them for yourself. If you're comfortable with endorsing the status quo, while simultaneously admitting the status quo isn't good, no amount of discussion with me or anyone else can resolve that until you choose one position or the other. I do not see how they can be compatible if you're sincere about both positions.

The 'Whatever your position is' part is..overzealous

It was a placeholder

Your question does not deserve a simple all-inclusive answer.

Why not?

 

[potentialeight]

 

[liesnillusions]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDVqIqr355g"]Rappy McRapperson - Fight The Man ---- Occupy Wall Street - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Aylian]

Here's my reasoning:

1. Obama has already expressed support for the movement. The reasons should be obvious. From Gergen:

2. The movement has grown to the point that it will not be sated unless "something is done." (I'll deal with that "something" in a moment.)

Couldn't said it better.

People of some intelligence must remember that ANY event is always looked at from this angle by the governing: "how can I use this to expand my power?". If you look at government actions like this, the entire modus operandi becomes crystal clear to you...

 

[Aylian]

anonymous is run by a governmental organization(s) IMO.

It just shows how un-alert people are. Go watch their videos. They are professionally made on a substantial budget, the voice is highly scripted and professionally acted, always hits the right amplifiers.

Hackers my right cheek...

 

[xmcp123]

It just shows how un-alert people are. Go watch their videos. They are professionally made on a substantial budget, the voice is highly scripted and professionally acted, always hits the right amplifiers.

Hackers my right cheek...

This is fucking idiotic.
There's tens of thousands of computer geeks out there that at least vaguely support anon, and you don't think they can put together a basic video with a voice modifier?
Hell, there's even people on WickedFire that could make those videos if they had the time. No budget needed.

Bad videos do exist you just never see them....because they suck no one reposts them, and they drift into obscurity. The repost mechanism anon's messages spread through ensures only high quality ones get seen.