Why are the richest in the US getting another tax break?

It would be nice if the world was as black and white as you make it seem.

THIS. I'm not pro-socialism or pro-democrat, but I like facts, not hyperbole and wide generalizations.


  • Most poor people don't vote. In many rural areas, the poor that do vote tend to vote republican.

  • $700 billion in welfare was channeled to wall street in the first bailout. Bush, McCain, and Boehner were in favor of this. Socialist Bernie Sanders voted against it.

  • The biggest reform to welfare in modern history was signed by Clinton. The biggest expansion to Medicare in recent history was signed by Bush.

  • In the last 50 years, how many presidents or members of congress have proposed eliminating or making significant cuts to any major welfare program? Nearly all American politicians are socialist, if you go by the way that many define the word.

    Reagan was a Big Government Liberal Democrat | Ron Paul 2012 | Sound Money, Peace and Liberty

  • Germany and many other countries are more socialist. According to some of the thinking in here, this would mean that half the people sit around doing nothing and the country accomplishes very little. This is simply not the reality. People are getting rich in these nations, and by certain measures these countries do better and are more educated than the USA.
 


That simple paragraph is so delusional, it's almost frightening, let alone the rest of your post. I love it when people rush to internet forums to defend the free markets and the wealthy elite, as if they're part of the club. Guess what? You're NOT part of the wealthy elite. How do I know? You're posting on a message forum called Wicked Fire.

You're an idiot. Taking Felix Dennis's definition of rich:

The lesser rich £40m – £74m The comfortably rich £75m – £99m The rich £100m – £199m The seriously rich £200m – £399m The truly rich £400m – £999m The filthy rich Over £1bn The super rich

I know quite a few people on this board, that fall into those ranges - though none in the filthy rich category or above.

Peasant.
 
Intelligent poor people aye?

Almost every enlisted member of the armed forces who is not in combat duty makes well less than $30k.

Exactly what makes someone in the armed forces intelligent?

Teachers (who have at least one degree, if not two) make less than $30k in rural areas.

Those who can't do, teach. The only teachers I had, which had even the slightest understanding of how the world works, were physics teachers.

Private school teachers make less than $30k just about anywhere.

Same as above.

Adjunct professors make less than $30k.

Part time professors? We're talking full-time jobs here.

New journalists make less than $30k.

Journalists are dumb as fucking rocks. They fail to do even the slightest bit of fact checking, time and time again.

Freelance photographers and graphic artists often make less than $30k.

Arts students - would you like fries with that? Have not met an intelligent one yet.
 
That simple paragraph is so delusional, it's almost frightening, let alone the rest of your post. I love it when people rush to internet forums to defend the free markets and the wealthy elite, as if they're part of the club. Guess what? You're NOT part of the wealthy elite. How do I know? You're posting on a message forum called Wicked Fire.

And guess what? You guys are your own worst enemies as well. You're so greedy, shallow, and naive, you don't even seem to understand what's happening. Keep up with the rhetoric, and within 20 years you'll be in line for food stamps too. Dumb asses.

And BTW... since when did being against large corporations fucking the middle class as hard as they can mean you're some poor commie socialist who's on welfare? Is the US media really that powerful to bend your mind in such a way? Hell, even guys like Warren Buffet and Bill Gates say the wealthy should pay more in taxes, and definitely not less when the US is in the tank financially.

We don't have a real free market. That's the problem.
 
funny because when I was making 30k/year I was able to buy shit I wanted (granted not everything but still I bought shit) i owned a car(notice i say own not having a loan payment) spent 50-100 bucks couple times a week at my local shit hole bar, bought stocked, invested in my company 401k, went on vacations, had no credit card debt.

STOP making excuses because people are to greedy and have $150 cell phone bills, 400 car payments, have a mortgage they can't afford, maxout their Best Buy credit card and then spend whatever is left over on affliction and true religion then bitch about having to live paycheck to paycheck.

income isn't the issue, not knowing how to budget is the problem.

FYI I only make 45k from my salaried job and now I own 2 cars paid off my mortgage will be paid within 7 years and I support not myself anymore but two kids and a wife. (nothing to brag about just pointing out that budgeting makes life easier) The problem is when you pay check increases by 10% spending increases by 30%

I'm only 24 and had budgeting figured out by the time I was 16 not my problem if some dumb ass can't do basic math.

That's cuz you live in fucking Dayton "middle of fucking nowhere backwards ass country" Ohio. Budgeting is easy if your rent costs like only $200 a month. Try living in New York/DC/LA/Chicago on 30k. That's basically just enough to get some shitty ass studio apartment, no car, and ZERO entertainment. Literally just enough to pay rent and eat food (crappy food).

My parents live in NJ (right outside of NYC), and their 3 bedroom duplex (their half of it) costs ~$490,000. In fucking Dayton that shit probably costs like $85,000.

So stop being a fucktard. If you don't understand relative prices (and other basic economic concepts) you need to just shut up.
 
Exactly what makes someone in the armed forces intelligent?



Those who can't do, teach. The only teachers I had, which had even the slightest understanding of how the world works, were physics teachers.



Journalists are dumb as fucking rocks. They fail to do even the slightest bit of fact checking, time and time again.



Arts students - would you like fries with that? Have not met an intelligent one yet.

1. Soldiers - Our troops may not be the brightest of the bunch, but a lot of them come back with no arms and legs and then nobody gives a fuck about them. And the DoD (aka da gubbermint) pretty much ignores them. That's pretty fucked up considering these guys put their lives on the line while the children of our politicians are safe at home spending daddy's money.

2. Teachers - You know why our teachers are so fucking dumb? Because the pay is so shitty that no smart person would want to become a teacher. So we have a bunch a dummies teaching the next generation. What do you think will happen? What we need to do is make teaching a well-paying prestigious job (like being a tenured university professor), fire all the dumb fucks, and replace them with smart people who will be attracted by the good pay.

3. Journalists are stupid. I agree.

4. Art students are not necessarily stupid. I've met plenty of smart ones, but the smarties always have parents who were fucking loaded so they didn't give a shit about making money.
 
Most people dont pay any taxes; yet take advantage of all the amenities within the system. Why not make it fair, everybody pays something. Will see how the lower income sector will feel about taxes after that. Equal flat tax.

Or if you dont pay taxes you dont get to vote for increasing my taxes. ;)
 
That's cuz you live in fucking Dayton "middle of fucking nowhere backwards ass country" Ohio. Budgeting is easy if your rent costs like only $200 a month. Try living in New York/DC/LA/Chicago on 30k. That's basically just enough to get some shitty ass studio apartment, no car, and ZERO entertainment. Literally just enough to pay rent and eat food (crappy food).

My parents live in NJ (right outside of NYC), and their 3 bedroom duplex (their half of it) costs ~$490,000. In fucking Dayton that shit probably costs like $85,000.

So stop being a fucktard. If you don't understand relative prices (and other basic economic concepts) you need to just shut up.

There's a reason I like living in the South. Even in the bigger cities it's still cheaper than those areas you listed.
 
To the asshats who cry about wanting an honest living, get out the door and start working your ass off. If you are too lazy to do that, sit on your damn ass and write content, do small contract jobs, or whatever the fuck it is you have to do, do it. Get off your high horse and be willing to work for a future reward.

While you incompetent/lazy immature adults are doing that, take a few business classes... mainly an economics class so you can learn how the economy works. We need the middle class and we also need the upper class. They feed off of each other.

I'm done. I don't feel like educating everybody tonight.
 
We don't have a real free market. That's the problem.

I'd beg to differ, and say the free market in the US is working absolutely brilliantly. Entrepreneurs entered the market, built massive businesses, and now even control the government and all legislation that is passed. They're raping the American public completely dry to the tune of hundreds of billions per year. Just a couple years ago, they managed to make over $1 trillion by convincing the government & public through fear they needed it via bank bailouts. That's not even getting into the war on terror, defense contracts, TSA, etc.

As I see it, that's capitalism at its finest!
 
That simple paragraph is so delusional, it's almost frightening, let alone the rest of your post. I love it when people rush to internet forums to defend the free markets and the wealthy elite, as if they're part of the club. Guess what? You're NOT part of the wealthy elite. How do I know? You're posting on a message forum called Wicked Fire.

And guess what? You guys are your own worst enemies as well. You're so greedy, shallow, and naive, you don't even seem to understand what's happening. Keep up with the rhetoric, and within 20 years you'll be in line for food stamps too. Dumb asses.

And BTW... since when did being against large corporations fucking the middle class as hard as they can mean you're some poor commie socialist who's on welfare? Is the US media really that powerful to bend your mind in such a way? Hell, even guys like Warren Buffet and Bill Gates say the wealthy should pay more in taxes, and definitely not less when the US is in the tank financially.

And for the record, I've never taken a government handout in my life, and have no desire to. I've worked hard, and earned every penny too, same as you.

This topic is huge. Simply stating a few lines cannot even begin to do justice for the depth of all the dynamics at play.

Just because I bash socialists doesn't mean I am defending the wealthy elite. The wealthy elite invented socialism and communism. They're not capitalists, they're criminals. I'm not defending criminals who commit crimes under socialism and then call it capitalism. They're frauds. And you're right, I'm not part of this group of criminals. But I don't have to be to know they're frauds and to know how to make money off their plan. I'm a capitalist. These people aren't capitalists. Capitalists don't use the government to enforce monopolies. Capitalists don't get bailed out by the taxpayer when they go bust. Capitalists don't require licenses to conduct business. Capitalists don't control the national money supply. These people aren't freaking capitalists.

Of course the whole country is going under. Of course the whole world is in trouble. So? I'm not going to be in line for food stamps. I'm not a slave. I will die for freedom. If a Nazi comes to put me in a concentration camp I will go down fighting. I will plan the best I can and do what I can. But I won't bow to the Queen. I'm a Real American and I understand freedom.

I'm not my own worst enemy. I'm my own best ally. Capitalists make their lives, and other people's lives better. Socialists make their lives, and other people's lives worse. If capitalists are so greedy why are they giving all their money to socialists? Why don't socialists give their money to capitalists out of their own generosity? Socialists aren't high and moral. They're selfish and in it for themselves. They only care about themselves. They don't care about society, they don't care about the greater good of humanity, they don't care about evolving people into being better, all they care about is what's in it for them. Socialists are the greedy, shallow and naïve ones. They think that minimum wage and unions increase wages, while in point of fact they decrease wages for everyone. They think that you can print prosperity. They think that dying industries should be saved. They think that jobs can be created by the government. They think that rent control works. They think a lot of things and almost all of them have no basis in reality. Although socialists may have great intentions, history shows that capitalism is far superior at accomplishing these intentions.

But I really don't care. I'm having the time of my life right now and I am looking forward to a financial meltdown. I would love the see the people who brought this nation down through ignorance and laziness reap their rewards. It will be fun when fixed income people try to buy a loaf of bread with $500. These people are about to get what they want. They're about to see what socialism really is. They're about to see what years of diverting real production and real work will render them.

If Warren Buffett and Bill Gates said it it must be true. They're smart guys but they're wrong here. You can't be right about everything and they're not. Raising taxes on the rich doesn't do what it claims to do. First of all, the real rich never get taxed anyway. It's the rich middle-class that get taxed. It just kills the middle class even more. Not only does raising taxes not make sense conceptually, historically it is a failure as well.

Let's see what the economist Thomas Sowell has to say about it:

"More than 40 years ago, President John F. Kennedy got Congress to cut tax rates, with the idea that this would provide incentives to change economic behavior in a way that would increase economic growth and individual incomes, and therefore lead to even more tax revenue coming into the Treasury than had been the case under the higher tax rates. That is exactly what happened.
Years later, Ronald Reagan made the same argument and his "tax cuts for the rich" produced the same result. Tax receipts during every year of the 1980s were higher than they had ever been in any year before. Moreover, taxes paid specifically by "the rich" were higher than before, because their incomes rose so much as the economy boomed that they paid more total taxes despite the reduced tax rate."


Robert Kiyosaki:

"There is a growing mood in this country to "get" the rich. This sentiment is embodied in the action of Congressman Jerry McNerney (D-CA), asking for a 90 percent tax rate on wealthy people. Yet the mobs are out to punish the working rich—those who pay taxes, create jobs, and make charitable donations. The real rich, those who influence the politicians and the Federal Reserve, are untouched."

and:

"It is estimated that for every $1,000 in taxes you and I pay, less than $200 comes back as a benefit to us."

I could go on all day but it doesn't matter. Like I said, I don't need to convince anyone. Some people will hear what I'm saying and others won't. If people don't want to become Capitalists that is fine... they can come work for me :)

And for the record I'm not attacking you or anybody else in this thread personally. I'm just stating my opinion. I like the people on WF and I agree with a lot of what you and others are saying. I'm just adding to it.
 
I'd beg to differ, and say the free market in the US is working absolutely brilliantly. Entrepreneurs entered the market, built massive businesses, and now even control the government and all legislation that is passed. They're raping the American public completely dry to the tune of hundreds of billions per year. Just a couple years ago, they managed to make over $1 trillion by convincing the government & public through fear they needed it via bank bailouts. That's not even getting into the war on terror, defense contracts, TSA, etc.

As I see it, that's capitalism at its finest!

Corporatism...is...not....capitalism. I reiterate...
 
I'd beg to differ, and say the free market in the US is working absolutely brilliantly. Entrepreneurs entered the market, built massive businesses, and now even control the government and all legislation that is passed. They're raping the American public completely dry to the tune of hundreds of billions per year. Just a couple years ago, they managed to make over $1 trillion by convincing the government & public through fear they needed it via bank bailouts. That's not even getting into the war on terror, defense contracts, TSA, etc.

As I see it, that's capitalism at its finest!

Jesus fucking titty christ. Thats corporatism and not capitalism. Lord have mercy, you seem to ignore what everyone is saying.

And the other dude talking about them banks being bailed out - yeah pro that ain't capitalism or socialism no dat der be corporatism or crony capitalism.
 
THIS THREAD IS NOW ABOUT RON PAUL

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I'd beg to differ, and say the free market in the US is working absolutely brilliantly. Entrepreneurs entered the market, built massive businesses, and now even control the government and all legislation that is passed. They're raping the American public completely dry to the tune of hundreds of billions per year. Just a couple years ago, they managed to make over $1 trillion by convincing the government & public through fear they needed it via bank bailouts. That's not even getting into the war on terror, defense contracts, TSA, etc.

As I see it, that's capitalism at its finest!
No it's not. A bailout is as anti-capitalist as a price cap on a good.
 
That's cuz you live in fucking Dayton "middle of fucking nowhere backwards ass country" Ohio. Budgeting is easy if your rent costs like only $200 a month. Try living in New York/DC/LA/Chicago on 30k. That's basically just enough to get some shitty ass studio apartment, no car, and ZERO entertainment. Literally just enough to pay rent and eat food (crappy food).

My parents live in NJ (right outside of NYC), and their 3 bedroom duplex (their half of it) costs ~$490,000. In fucking Dayton that shit probably costs like $85,000.

So stop being a fucktard. If you don't understand relative prices (and other basic economic concepts) you need to just shut up.
You ready for this... Don't be stupid move if you only make 30 in an area that has a higher cost of living.... Logic solves all life problems. With an industry that requires out the box thinking you would think there wouldnt be so many narrow minded ass wads like your self
 
I'd beg to differ, and say the free market in the US is working absolutely brilliantly. Entrepreneurs entered the market, built massive businesses, and now even control the government and all legislation that is passed. They're raping the American public completely dry to the tune of hundreds of billions per year. Just a couple years ago, they managed to make over $1 trillion by convincing the government & public through fear they needed it via bank bailouts. That's not even getting into the war on terror, defense contracts, TSA, etc.

As I see it, that's capitalism at its finest!

You don't know what a free market is. A free market doesn't include interference by government. Nearly all of the businesses you are talking about got where they are through government interference in the economy. This comes in the form of copyrights, regulations, patents, tariffs, subsidies, the Federal Reserve, etc. Even the existence of corporations is anti-free market because it is an example of government granting companies certain privileges such as limited liability.

Bailouts certainly aren't free market. The banks and other companies would have failed in a free market rather than being bailed out.
 
Just an example since you claim there aren't any intelligent poor people out there. Obviously the point was lost since you're dealing with some issues of your own.

Almost every enlisted member of the armed forces who is not in combat duty makes well less than $30k. Teachers (who have at least one degree, if not two) make less than $30k in rural areas. Private school teachers make less than $30k just about anywhere. Adjunct professors make less than $30k. New journalists make less than $30k. Freelance photographers and graphic artists often make less than $30k. Et al.

Let's suffice to say that there are many ways to define poverty and families and individuals handle it in different ways. You're drawing heavily on your personal experience. I teach in schools where 80 percent of the kids fall below the poverty line and few families will break the cycle of poverty in this generation. Being poor doesn't necessarily equate to feeling entitled. Personally, I prefer the "working poor" which we seem to have a lot of who get lumped in with the entitled poor.

P.S. How's "learning how to speak" working for you?

Maybe they should make more money? I would comment further but someone already commented on this already