Y U NO LIKE MURIKANS?

Good concept.

Okay, I support the concept.

But how would you manage criminals?

How would you manage possible conflict with foreign countries?

When I advocate for stateless societies, I don't do so under the idea that the only thing changed is a lack of government, as if I believe things would be fine and dandy with a light switch were flipped and all government employees were fired. Too many are brainwashed into the concept of the necessity of government, and would ultimately just create another government.

It's a multi-generational approach, and it begins with parenting culture.

Teaching children to:
(a) Think for themselves. Critical thinking.
(b) To question authority. (This is a tough one as most parents believe they're the "superiors" and demand blind obedience.)
(c) See the state for which it is; organized crime.
(d) Not to resort to violence to achieve things (Most parents tell children not to hit or steal, but they see that doesn't apply in the adult world as it pertains to how we handle victimless crimes, taxation, etc..)

(a) is the most important. Two things that get in the way of that process now are (1) schools which rely on conditioning obedient citizens, and (2) religion.

If we can usher in a parenting culture that aligns with the points above, everything else will fall in place. Anarchism would be just a natural consequence.
 


:( What can we really do though...

I'm pretty sure that if the US ever goes down, the rest of the world will not be much better

I have one idea about why all this is happening. Maybe the humans are too dumb to use technology the right way. Most of the shit we are facing today is because of technological advancement by humans (in a dumb way) I think we were just fine when we just had the natural goodness and no man made technology.
Voting is rigged.
Protests don't do anything on the small scale.
Go back a few centuries when there was little man-made tech. People mostly lived in small communities and were much more scattered than now. The small communities met their own needs. Elders were in charge of families. There were probably dictators out there, but not much political correctness b.s.

The people are too stupid to wake up.
Actively promoting this stuff gets ignored.
The media is in control of the masses.
No mass media is possible without stupid man made tech and its practically too hard to brainwash people too much.

US stocking up on ammo and trying to remove guns from citizens.
All modern weapons and shit are the product of man made technology. Controlling people gets easier when you have massive technology to track and spy on people.

Detention camps waiting to be filled; warrant-less arrests, lifetime imprisonment with no trial.
I guess, a few centuries back they would just kill the people they didn't like, or ask them to leave

Your money is traceable, so is your car, communications, etc.
Obviously, advanced technology makes all this possible. No one could track a horse-rider from an office 5000 miles away back in the day

Corrupt corporations and banks can strip you of everything.
Yea, that evil technology again. They just enter a button and all your bank accounts, credit cards or permits are gone

The food supply is also in jeopardy with Monsanto.
Back in the day, people lived in small communities. Almost all needs were met locally. 100% organically

Drones watching your ever move.
---
 
Agorism, especially with mass acceptance of bitcoin, will remove the power from central bankers totally. 100%. Central who?

If you think hardcore statists are brainwashed, tell me how this is not coming from someone brainwashed at the extreme opposite end

Bitcoin is not going mainstream anytime soon, lol look what's going to happen to that bloated blockchain soon. but yes, some other crypto might replace bitcoin. I think it will be centralized to some extent. Some big corporation such as Microsoft or Google might run that, and then we all will again bitch about it endlessly. Google is already investing in such ventures 1, 2. No long before they acquire 100% stake in a few ventures and set up their own full fledged centralized currency (as allowed to the extent of law)

Governments haven't been able to stop bittorrent in the last 13 years... and now bitcoin has more hashing power than EVERY supercomputer on earth combined. They truly are powerless to stop it, and with it, we can ignore the central banks into oblivion.

It's not as fast as a solution as I'd like, but it'll work.

lol. that's a pretty silly comparison

With torrents, you are dealing with much smaller fish. With crypto currency, you're dealing with the financial czars
 
Also while we're talking US politics - how did you chaps manage to get away with changing house rules like this?

The GOP's little rule change they hoped you wouldn't notice - YouTube

Or has this been covered elsewhere already?

Hilarious how Van Hollen's indignant about this, while in the Senate, Reid rules with an iron fist. As to how they changed the rules? They have the majority, it's not rocket science. Quite amusing how they pretend this is some sort of controversy.
 
Oh boy... Somalia again.

What I mean, is that you have military power, so you can force Chinese to buy your debts.
History shows that the team with the biggest guns (Think: Roman empire) is still quite vulnerable to debt. If the USSR in 1991 wasn't a good enough example for you, then think about the Roman empire, the Hapsburgs, or the Venetian empire... There are dozens of examples just since Jesus where the superpower of the world could rule with an iron fist but couldn't manage it's own finances. The USA is no different at all.


►Besides, you truly believe that China does not have debts?
You believe that the Chinese economy is healthy?
No. But It is very easy to believe that the chinese economy will outlast the us economy... It's growing, while ours is sinking fast.



See, I am not saying that any state will survive or is good, I am just saying having a state is better than having none.

See Somalia for a good example of modern day Anarchy (pre 2010, they got a gubmint now)
/facepalm again. This is the 2nd most tiring argument against voluntaryism that I know.

Don't you people have any clue how much fun we make at your expense across countless forums and facebook pages, specifically about "muh roads" and "muh somalia?" Go google those terms sometime... You'll see that you're the butt of a huuuuuge joke at your expense.

But since I think you're one of the better statists, I'll explain it one more time, just for you emp...

Somaila isn't violent because of the LACK of government... It's the external governments and the people trying to establish NEW governments that creates 100% of the violence. Their anarchic Xeer justice system works great, and was incredibly very similar to the anarchic justice system that survived in Medieval Ireland for over a thousand years.

Since governments have a vested interest in making you believe that anarchy is bad, it shouldn't come as any surprise that it would be portrayed that way in the media, tv shows, and hollywood.

It's simply untrue though. Anarchy is quite peaceful, and statism is provably violent... But you won't have anarchy just by removing the people currently in power; you must educate the masses to know what it is first, like Dreamache said above.

mO573xI.jpg


I love that analogy about burning down churches... It's a perfect metaphor for anarchy, ironically.

Oh, and if you'd like to sound more educated in the future when you talk about an anarchic society, the Medieval Irish would be a far more valid comparison:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=su9OqvBbSD0]Ancient Ireland's success with the free market and a stateless society - YouTube[/ame]





"According to the report, the U.S. government owns:
  • More than 900,000 separate real assets covering more than 3 billion sq. ft.
  • Mineral rights, on and offshore, covering 2.515 billion acres of land, more than the total surface land in Canada
  • 45,190 underutilized buildings, the operating costs of which are $1.66 billion annually
  • Oil and gas resources on and offshore worth $128 trillion, roughly eight times the national debt of the country"
Can the U.S. Government's $128 Trillion Stockpile Ease Debt Problems? | TIME.com
While I can't deny they've got some assets on our balance sheet, I'm sure the soviets and the Ceasars likely did too... And like them, the USD economy is going downhill so fast that no amount of assets can save the USSA in the end unless we actually start trying to pay off those debts... Which is never, ever addressed in DC.



But how would you manage criminals?
There are already private prisons and private court systems and private arbitration that you can use today. There used to be quite a lot of private security too, but governments made that illegal over time.

How would you manage possible conflict with foreign countries?
With the internet, it would be quite hard to educate the USSA about anarchy without the rest of the world finding out about it too.

"National" defense could also be privatized. There is nothing at all that the free market cannot provide better than a government does... Excepting only violence.

A lot of the answers about defense in a free society are answered well in these two free ebooks:

http://mises.org/books/chaostheory.pdf

http://www.freedomainradio.com/free/books/FDR_5_PDF_Practical_Anarchy_Audiobook.pdf

...There are dozens more like these.



With torrents, you are dealing with much smaller fish. With crypto currency, you're dealing with the financial czars
Same Technology... Can't be stopped. Go lurn stuff.

Tech may have helped gotten us into a mess, but there is nothing saying that it can't be used to get us out of it.


If you think hardcore statists are brainwashed, tell me how this is not coming from someone brainwashed at the extreme opposite end
It's sad you had to be the first, Jacky. Even bluechinagroup and erifdekciw are not on my ignore list yet... Oh well; Gotta make room to read more open-minded thinkers.
 
It's sad you had to be the first, Jacky. Even bluechinagroup and erifdekciw are not on my ignore list yet... Oh well; Gotta make room to read more open-minded thinkers.

Being open minded is a good thing. You should you be so too ;)
 
It's sad you had to be the first, Jacky. Even bluechinagroup and erifdekciw are not on my ignore list yet... Oh well; Gotta make room to read more open-minded thinkers.
The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently.
Nietzsche

I assume Lukep defines 'open minded' as 'those who think like I do, so we can circle jerk each other'

Just like they define anarchy as 'no laws in a place where everyone votes for no laws and everyone agrees to no laws because everyone is a good person and therefore will never do anything to infringe on others and everything will be fine because people are good and markets are perfect and monopolies only exist because of the unnaturalness of government which sprouted up not because it is a natural evolution of society, but because evil aliens implanted gov on us'
 
They could seize control of many of the "gas stations" using those boats if they wanted.


Also :

"According to the report, the U.S. government owns:
  • More than 900,000 separate real assets covering more than 3 billion sq. ft.
  • Mineral rights, on and offshore, covering 2.515 billion acres of land, more than the total surface land in Canada
  • 45,190 underutilized buildings, the operating costs of which are $1.66 billion annually
  • Oil and gas resources on and offshore worth $128 trillion, roughly eight times the national debt of the country"
Can the U.S. Government's $128 Trillion Stockpile Ease Debt Problems? | TIME.com

And who are they going to sell those assets to? Another government? China, perhaps?
 
Hahahaha @mattseh and "will you ever stop talking about Somalia."

I formerly mentioned Somalia in direct response to teatree upholding it as a poster child for how Anarchy works:

Somalia. They haven't had a government since 1991. They're a poster-child for laissez-faire - no taxes, no government, no laws and no law enforcement. They're really showing everyone how it's done. All their neighbours are really chuffed about how it's working out.

Source: http://www.wickedfire.com/shooting-...does-anyone-care-post2112401.html#post2112401

::emp::
 
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHl1JnQoIWQ]I'd Dump the Israelis Tomorrow --Ex-CIA Michael Scheuer Tells Congress - YouTube[/ame]
 
Go to Europe, South America, Asia, Australia, etc...

Do any of those places actually want you to come though? You all seem to be looking at it only from your point of view, rather than from your hosts'.

One of the big problems on the planet at the moment is this "grass is greener" point of view, where people think that things will magically improve if they just move. Nine times out of ten they don't. They encounter problems in their new country - they don't know the language, the culture - and the existing residents get irritated at people just turning up on their territory acting entitled and not bothering to integrate - and they move to actively or passively exclude the newcomers and make things harder for them.

Billions of people on the planet are currently on the move naively thinking they are going to somewhere better but just causing problems for themselves and everyone else.

You can waste your whole life like a gadfly flitting from place to place looking for El Dorado. Look at LukeP - in how many threads did he assure everyone that Thailand was paradise? Now he's back in the old USA thinking maybe Chile is paradise. But I expect in the end he'll die in the ole USA.

There isn't any such thing as paradise on earth. But with some effort you can make some small meaningful improvements to the place you already live in - your chances of succeeding are greater than starting over and trying to make over some place else, because you understand the culture and idioms of the place you grew up in, in a way you'll never understand abroad. But the catch is that improving things at home requires more effort and engagement than just daydreaming and ordering plane tickets.

Do something truly radical and different to what the tide of humanity is doing right now - stay put and fight for the nation you want instead of perpetually running to what you imagine incorrectly to be the new paradise.
 
Isn't the smartest thing to get the monies and diversify, and let the trapped assholes worry about all this crap?

"None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free."

If you don't recognize the chains and the cage, how are you going to realize they aren't locked and take them off and walk out?

You need some Socrates in your life, bruh.
 
You need some Socrates in your life, bruh.

Now that's something I could waste some time talking about. The whole sky is falling conversation doesn't really do it for me anymore, I think I listened to it too much of it growing up.

“Strong minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, weak minds discuss people.”

SOURCE: My old man is in the tin foil club.
 
Hope this thread wasn't too old to bump, but another big anti-murikan thing is going down now:

Exclusive: Germany, Brazil Turn to U.N. to Restrain American Spies | The Cable

Could you imagine? One day the U.N. could send inspectors to our Utah data center to ensure we aren't keeping records on foreign countries... Of course the USSA would then deny them access just like we accuse Iran of doing with its' nuclear program.