Detroit Files for Bankruptcy

What if there was a 3rd party, and things still sucked?

What if there were 4th, 5th and 6th parties, and things still sucked?

At one point, maybe it's not how many parties we have, but perhaps that the system is incapable of producing anything but "suck" parties because the incentives for a politician have always been to sell power and to betray their constituents.
 


guerilla said:
What if there was a 3rd party, and things still sucked?

What if there were 4th, 5th and 6th parties, and things still sucked?

At one point, maybe it's not how many parties we have, but perhaps that the system is incapable of producing anything but "suck" parties because the incentives for a politician have always been to sell power and to betray their constituents.
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Then how do you explain countries like Norway? I don't think it's the system, I think it's an issue with the people involved in the process top to bottom. I think this is a result of a shit education system and not investing in the population in general.
 
guerilla said:
You've come a long way. You're almost there.
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Where should I be? I've always felt that both parties are pretty bad, although the GOP is worse with their scorched earth policies that border on nihilism.

Politicians are mostly self serving, and rarely act on behalf of their constituents anymore. They exist to perpetuate their own power and toady to lobbyists, special interests and corporations with deep pockets. If you toss out the rascals, their replacements will become just as corrupt.

Term limits might help a bit, but this wouldn't correct structural problems in the system.
 
BlueYonder said:
Where should I be?
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BlueYonder said:
this wouldn't correct structural problems in the system.
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You're a democrat who doesn't even believe in the democrats anymore.

You basically participate on some level in politics because it is the only game, a game you already understand is fundamentally rigged against you and your values.

Like I said, you're almost there. And there, in my opinion, is deciding not to play a game you can never win.
 
guerilla said:
You're a democrat who doesn't even believe in the democrats anymore.

You basically participate on some level in politics because it is the only game, a game you already understand is fundamentally rigged against you and your values.

Like I said, you're almost there. And there, in my opinion, is deciding not to play a game you can never win.
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Are you trying to say in a round about way that voting is slavery.

No doubt it is. So is knee jerk reacting to evrything on the news. but alas where would be find our values if not from Fox News.....I suppose church lol.
 
guerilla said:
You basically participate on some level in politics because it is the only game, a game you already understand is fundamentally rigged against you and your values.

Like I said, you're almost there. And there, in my opinion, is deciding not to play a game you can never win.
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You reminded me of an old Molyneux video:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igbBItLemsM]The Truth About Voting - YouTube[/ame]
 
Zaino said:
Are you trying to say in a round about way that voting is slavery.
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No. Voting is voluntary. At least it is in America, it's not in Australia.

But voting doesn't ever accomplish what it is you're voting for, so why bother?

It's an outlet for hope, it keeps people from opting out or violently revolting by maintaining the false perception that change in government is driven from the ground up.

Meanwhile, those in government collude with other non-democratic interests to exploit the wealth and consent of those voting.

Look, I am not even trying to present voting as evil or whatever. Just not consistent with the voter's expectations.

If you kept ordering Domino's pizza and it tasted bad, I would expect you to stop ordering Domino's Pizza.

If you keep voting and getting a government that doesn't live up to your expectations, stop voting. You'll still get bad government, but you will have saved yourself all of the time and effort paying attention to, and participating in politics.
 
dmnEPC said:
There is a boat load of cash to be made in detroit. If I lived a little closer I would probably become a slum-lord. Just buy houses in the 2,000 to $7,000 range and rent em out. No repairs just go around collecting moneies
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Good luck with that, half of the city lives on some form of Government assistance, its unlikely you would ever get any rent money from the people of detroit
 
JakeStratham said:
You reminded me of an old Molyneux video
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I try not to get that emotional. I don't know if it comes across in text but I am not that invested anymore.

BlueYonder has pretty much always been cool with me, and if I can tell her something that has a chance of making her life better (happier or more productive or whatever) then I will. If she is into it, great. If not, that's ok too because I am trying to be a lot more chill about everything these days.
 
guerilla said:
You're a democrat who doesn't even believe in the democrats anymore.

You basically participate on some level in politics because it is the only game, a game you already understand is fundamentally rigged against you and your values.

Like I said, you're almost there. And there, in my opinion, is deciding not to play a game you can never win.
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I wouldn't stop voting. I'm an idealist at heart, and feel it's important to participate in civic life. This is the way I was raised, so those are my values.

The country has gotten off-track, but it's not unsalvageable, and I feel it's important to vote for and speak out in favor of reform. Term limits, ending gerrymandering and limits on lobbyists and corporate donations are reforms that could heal the system.

Winston Churchill said it well: "Americans can always be counted on to do the right thing...after they have exhausted all other possibilities."
 
guerilla said:
I try not to get that emotional. I don't know if it comes across in text but I am not that invested anymore.
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I've never thought of you as emotional. And I'm glad for that. You've had a tremendous influence on my thinking over the years and I would have been deaf to appeals from emotion (some in my family say I suffer a character deficit in that regard).

I recalled Molyneux's video because the gist of his message - "you know participation (voting) doesn't work - so, why on earth are you participating?" - seemed consistent with your post to BlueYonder. Personally, although Molyneux's approach in the video probably reached thousands of minds, I thought it degraded his core message. But that's beside the point.

In any case, I should have added a couple of notes to my previous post for clarification. Sorry. :)


guerilla said:
BlueYonder has pretty much always been cool with me, and if I can tell her something that has a chance of making her life better (happier or more productive or whatever) then I will. If she is into it, great. If not, that's ok too because I am trying to be a lot more chill about everything these days.
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That's the feeling I've gotten. And I'm reaching that point, too (not getting too worked up about things). Live life, be happy, make friends, invest in those I love, and avoid violent thugs.
 
JakeStratham said:
I would have been deaf to appeals from emotion (some in my family say I suffer a character deficit in that regard).
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You have to be at least a little autistic to be a good libertarian.

JakeStratham said:
"you know participation (voting) doesn't work - so, why on earth are you participating?"
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That's basically it. Trying to spread rationalism etc feels pointless and is ultimately very frustrating.

I don't want to be frustrated. I just want to be happy. I can't fix what is wrong with humanity, I can barely fix any of my own serious character and intellectual deficits.

JakeStratham said:
That's the feeling I've gotten. And I'm reaching that point, too (not getting too worked up about things). Live life, be happy, make friends, invest in those I love, and avoid violent thugs.
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Pretty much. Libertarianism or anarchism or rationalism or individualism don't have to be suicide pacts. If America or Canada melt down, I am going to be on a beach somewhere drinking Pina Coladas, working on my tan, not marching in the street and chanting "Ron Paul for the Long Haul" or participating in some delusional Glen Beck 9/12 fantasy.
 
BlueYonder said:
I wouldn't stop voting. I'm an idealist at heart, and feel it's important to participate in civic life.
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My dear, what you call optimism (repeatedly participating in something that does not give you the desired result) has also been referred to by another name.

Insanity.

Regardless I wish you well.
 
I was up there last week. KPMG and Comerica seem to be doing well. That's where all the cops are. 2 blocks away, it looks like The Walking Dead. I stayed in Novi, it was all right, and Troy was like a gradient- goes from not-so-bad to pretty good.

I found out you can't make left turns in MI.
 
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