Low Carb Diet > Low Fat Diet



avatar33 said:
Just released... a movie about sugar. Anybody watched it?

FED UP - Official Trailer - YouTube

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Fed Up
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Sugar

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Coke

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This is only semi-related to following a low-carb diet, but still an interesting read...

Owsley Stanley, soundman for the Grateful Dead and (according to wiki), the "first private individual to manufacture mass quantities of LSD," had this to say about following a zero-carb, all-meat diet:

Hello all,

I have been eating the natural human dietary regime for over 47 years now. I do not eat anything whatsoever from vegetable sources. The only things veggie I use are spices. My diet is usually 60% fat and 40% protein by calories. I used to eat 80/20 when younger and about twice as much quantity of meat also, but that seems too much energy at my age, which is 71- even though I am very active. I think the body actually becomes more efficient with energy as you age, but I have no way of proving it true. Otherwise, my body today is very like it was at the age of 30. I figure most of what we call 'aging' is due to insulin damage to the collagen and other body structures. No carbs = no insulin. I don't heal quite as fast when injured as I did as a youngster, however. But I have few wrinkles, and my skin is still strong and elastic.

At this point I would like to point out that a zero carb diet does NOT cause ketosis. The body rapidly adapts within a few weeks and begins consuming the ketones from fat metabolism. A fully keto-adapted body excretes no ketones in the urine. A metabolic by product, 'ketone bodies' are actually a special kind of carb, and they substitute for glucose at the structures which use it. They have the added advantage of making you feel good- and well fed.

The body cannot store dietary fat, there is no mechanism for transport across the adipose cell's wall, nor can it 'burn' carbs, which actually are toxic in more than the tiny amount required by the brain and a few other structures. The body converts dietary carbs (all convert to glucose as they are absorbed) into body fat. The conversion mechanism requires insulin which is very tissue-damaging. It is correct to say that dietary carbs are the base cause of both heart blockage and diabetes, (not a disease).

I must warn all of you that it is very unlikely that very many will be able to eat as I do over the long term, or in fact, to follow any diet for long which is much different from the one you were trained to as a baby/child. This is because diet is learned much the same way language, dress and behaviour is, and is buried deep and inaccessible, a part of your acculturation/socialisation. The very thing which makes us human is that deep and almost instinctive complex of behaviour.

It requires a powerful will and a determination to change, in order to succeed in adopting the 'extreme' diet which this website is based on. Even those who are morbidly obese, as powerful a motivation as any I can imagine will have 'cravings' for what I call 'non-food' (all vegetation and carbs) which will eventually prove irresistible. A few may manage to stay on the diet for years, but unless you are prepared to stick with it for maybe ten or more years, you will drift back into eating what I consider poison. For some reason my mum was not interested in forcing me to eat the veggies I hated so, and i was able to eat only what I liked- mostly meat, especially hamburger and the fat those at our table would cut from their steaks. Still I had massive struggles abandoning the 'civilised diet'.

I suggest that no non-food be taken home, none allowed in your fridge or pantry (out of sight is hopefully out of mind). Make a request when seated in a restaurant that the bread bin be removed (but please leave the butter), and when ordering, request that the vegetables be removed from the plate in the kitchen (just say you don't like to see 'good food go to waste').

Even during the years I was soundman for Grateful Dead, I stuck to my guns and remained totally carnivorous. I am restricted by the forums rules (as I read them) from telling about my essay on diet and exercise which is posted on my website. Basically it states that humans were totally hunting peoples until the end of the paleolithic age. No paleolithic archeological dig has ever produced any food residues from vegetables. Chemical analysis of bones from the digs indicates they are the same composition as the African lion- thus, virtually no intake of vegetation. There were no 'hunter-gatherer' societies until the neolithic, even though some modern HG tribes still made and used typical paleolithic napped-stone tools. The so called Nearthin and Paleodiet thus are both nonsense, true paleolithic people were total carnivores and ate no veggies whatsoever.

In the relatively short evolutionary period since the consumption of vegetables as food there has not been any real adaptation to such low grade low energy, difficult to digest foods. Because we have no adaptation to digesting or processing vegetables as food, they are all basically very bad for us.

We evolved as an active, group-hunting animal. We have a high natural requirement for physical exercise and cannot live long or be healthy without a lot of it.

I hope my post is of some help to others. Just persist. I show that it IS possible to overcome your dietary socialisation.
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See also his essay "Diet and Exercise."


Note: I'm not suggesting that anyone follow Bear's diet. Experiment and do whatever works for you. But his perspective is (was) interesting.
 
JakeStratham said:
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His point about exercise is true but the notion that paleolithic people were strict carnivores is, well, a total load of horse shit - both in a historical and contemporary context.

Neanderthal medics? Evidence for food, cooking, and medicinal plants entrapped in dental calculus - Springer

Our dentition is about omnivorous as it gets. We're designed to eat a large range of foods, not just meat and animal fat.

In today's world there are many pseudo-neolithic groups which still subsist on their native diet such as the !Kung who primarily eat seeds and nuts, or the Hadza who get ~20% of their calories from roots and tubers. Both have a fairly significant vegetable/fruit component to their diet, around 15% of their caloric intake.

This article provides a good perspective on the whole paleo-diet thing: Human Ancestors Were Nearly All Vegetarians | Guest Blog, Scientific American Blog Network
 
Weight change since 24th Aug on a diet of low carb (no bread, pasta, cake, biscuits, less fruit, no food with added sugar, wheat or grains) and higher fat intake. My average weight for years has been 80-85Kg.

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Antics said:
His point about exercise is true but the notion that paleolithic people were strict carnivores is, well, a total load of horse shit - both in a historical and contemporary context.

Neanderthal medics? Evidence for food, cooking, and medicinal plants entrapped in dental calculus - Springer

Our dentition is about omnivorous as it gets. We're designed to eat a large range of foods, not just meat and animal fat.

In today's world there are many pseudo-neolithic groups which still subsist on their native diet such as the !Kung who primarily eat seeds and nuts, or the Hadza who get ~20% of their calories from roots and tubers. Both have a fairly significant vegetable/fruit component to their diet, around 15% of their caloric intake.

This article provides a good perspective on the whole paleo-diet thing: Human Ancestors Were Nearly All Vegetarians | Guest Blog, Scientific American Blog Network
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Thanks for the links. This is a subject that interests me. I haven't yet read Dunn's post on the SA blog, but will when I have more time.

Frankly, I haven't a clue as to whether paleolithic man was 100% carnivorous or not. Although there's certainly no shortage of speculation on the topic, data has been limited.

The link you provided was to a study published in 2012. I only read the abstract since I'm not motivated to pay for the full study. The authors note using material found in the dental calculus of 5 neanderthals who lived in an are of Spain.

A more recent study was published this year in PLOS One (link below). The authors examined 5 samples of fecal material believed to have been produced by neanderthals in Spain. Their findings were similar - i.e. neanderthals ate plants.

PLOS ONE: The Neanderthal Meal: A New Perspective Using Faecal Biomarkers

I don't yet consider the claim that paleolithic man was 100% carnivorous to be "a total load of horse shit." I may form that opinion in the future as further studies of dig sites are published (or I become aware of those that have already been published). More data is always better. To my knowledge, very little has been collected and analyzed to this end. The findings from the Spanish sites is very interesting. Unfortunately, the data are still limited. I'm hoping to see more data from dig sites in other areas.

On a related note, the author of a Sci-News article (link below) citing the PLOS One study had this to say:

"We believe Neanderthals probably ate what was available in different situations, seasons, and climates.

It is also possible that Neanderthals didn’t eat plants directly, but consumed them through the stomach contents of their prey, leaving traces of plants in their teeth."
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Source of quote: New Study Provides Strong Evidence that Neanderthals Ate Plants | Anthropology | Sci-News.com

I don't think anyone would argue that man has always been an opportunistic eater. If meat isn't available, he'll consume other things. Is that the reason plant matter was discovered in the dental calculus and fecal remains of the neanderthals in Spain? Hell if I know.

As to whether early man consumed the stomach contents of his prey, I'd like to see more evidence (opportunistic dining aside). Lots of folks - e.g. Weston Price - have claimed that to be the case. Others have disputed the claim, calling it a myth. Both sides point to wolves and dogs as examples. Again, hell if I know what to think.

Note that I'm not saying you're making the same claims as the author of the Sci-New article. Far from it. I'm just commenting on them.

Again, thanks for the links.
 
That's exactly what I was saying. We're omnivores - pigeon-holing the entire species into one dietary vertical is just anthropologically ignorant.

There are positives and negatives to all different kinds of diets found around the world. To claim that one diet is the one that works for humans makes very little sense in light of that and the fact that based on available evidence there has always been variation in the human diet influenced by geography and the corresponding local biome.
 
Antics said:
That's exactly what I was saying. We're omnivores - pigeon-holing the entire species into one dietary vertical is just anthropologically ignorant.

There are positives and negatives to all different kinds of diets found around the world. To claim that one diet is the one that works for humans makes very little sense in light of that and the fact that based on available evidence there has always been variation in the human diet influenced by geography and the corresponding local biome.
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Isn't there a bit of over-thinking going on here? Just cut the wheat based and high sugar products - they are relatively recent after all. Replace that with foods that contain saturated fats. Try it for yourself for a month or two and see how you feel. Personally I feel much better.
 
wezcountry said:
Isn't there a bit of over-thinking going on here? Just cut the wheat based and high sugar products - they are relatively recent after all. Replace that with foods that contain saturated fats. Try it for yourself for a month or two and see how you feel. Personally I feel much better.
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I already eat this way.
 
A real paleo diet would include a lot more innards like liver, kidney, brain and bone marrow and a lot more fish and shellfish.
 
savantmarketing said:
incorrect. THis is a modern food system problem. B12 = bacteria
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Vitamin B12 != bacteria.

B12 is actually synthesised by bacteria.

savantmarketing said:
which is no longer found on the sterilized food you buy in the grocery store. Its been washed and handled and then flown across the world.
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I am not sure how your hypothesis if true proves me wrong. Are you saying that because food is sterilized, that there are little to no b12 left. As a result b12 deficiency is not due to diet (vegan, vegetarian or omnivorous) but because of modern food sterilization?
 
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