anyone else think the free tibet protests are a bunch of bullshit?

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mason

mason

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I personally find it very lame that tibet is capitalizing on the olympics for extreme political reasons. Sure, any group of people is entitled to their beliefs so I'm not against them wanting to form their own country, but the way they're doing it is just shameful. Even the media is fucking biased as hell over the issue. They make it seem as if "china invaded" the region recently when in fact, maps going back 300 years have shown tibet as a part of china.

I just find it ironic that if tibet does gain independence(which I don't think they should since china has owned that land since the han dynasty), they will become a theocracy. LOL Either way they will be fucked.

ugh an olympic event that actually interests me gets ruined for shitty reasons :(
 


fuck china...

and yes, Tibet has been invaded by the chinese from the north and east, the muslims from the west and the indians from the south... but for most of the last few thousand years it has been self-ruled with the invaders being unable to sustain a longterm presence due the remoteness and isolation...

if the torch was coming anywhere close to where I live, I'd make a run for it and try to put it out...
 
_poto_ said:
fuck china...

and yes, Tibet has been invaded by the chinese from the north and east, the muslims from the west and the indians from the south... but for most of the last few thousand years it has been self-ruled with the invaders being unable to sustain a longterm presence due the remoteness and isolation...

if the torch was coming anywhere close to where I live, I'd make a run for it and try to put it out...
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not really. if it was self ruled they wouldn't be protesting. the dalai lama pushed for self rule but couldn't achieve it so they want independence now.
 
agua said:
Isn't that what Politics is all about?
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I guess lol. too bad it doesn't do shit. look at when everyone boycotted the olympics in russia to protest the invasion of Afghanistan... russians still stayed in there many years afterwards.
 
Simple answer, No.

Go back far enough and a large chunk of China (and other present-day countries) was part of Tibet, it's only relatively recently (last hundred or so years) that China has actually controlled Tibet.

Given the way the Chinese government has chosen to deal with the issue - nothing less than massacres really - I don't blame the Tibetans at all for taking this opportunity to push for for a more equal relationship, especially considering the way China treats some of it's other territories such as Hong Kong.

The Dalai Lama himself isn't looking for independence, but tbh given the choice I'd much rather have him as a leader than democratically elected regimes such as Hamas, Mugabe and Co, and even the current ones in our countries. I can't think of any other leader of a state in recent history that is as thoughtful, compassionate and (for want of a better word) wise as him and certainly none that has the level of respect he has across the board.

Democracy isn't always the best form of government and an open theocracy lead by the present Dalai Lama would almost certainly be better for it's people than the current repressive regime in China.
 
LazyHippy said:
Simple answer, No.

Go back far enough and a large chunk of China (and other present-day countries) was part of Tibet, it's only relatively recently (last hundred or so years) that China has actually controlled Tibet.

Given the way the Chinese government has chosen to deal with the issue - nothing less than massacres really - I don't blame the Tibetans at all for taking this opportunity to push for for a more equal relationship, especially considering the way China treats some of it's other territories such as Hong Kong.

The Dalai Lama himself isn't looking for independence, but tbh given the choice I'd much rather have him as a leader than democratically elected regimes such as Hamas,
Mugabe and Co, and even the current ones in our countries. I can't think of any other leader of a state in recent history that is as thoughtful, compassionate and (for want of a better word) wise as him and certainly none that has the level of respect he has across the board.

Democracy isn't always the best form of government and an open theocracy lead by the present Dalai Lama would almost certainly be better for it's people than the repressive regime in China.
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that's a good point. but what happens after he is gone? another monk takes over and somewhere down the chain... ? Last time I've checked politics + religion don't mix. If you stay within a simple life that tibetans are currently living, then yea i could see it working.
 
mason said:
that's a good point. but what happens after he is gone? another monk takes over and somewhere down the chain... ? Last time I've checked politics + religion don't mix. If you stay within a simple life that tibetans are currently living, then yea i could see it working.
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That's the problem. It looks like China will try to force them to have a Dalai Lama chosen by Bejing as they did recently with one of the other Lamas. (Against the wishes of the Dalai Lama, the son of a Tibetan Communist Party member was chosen.)

I'm normally the first to defend secularism, but that's not what the people there want.

I'm hoping to go to both China and Tibet later this year, so am following what's going on fairly closely. I'm disgusted that my government can try to claim the Iraq and Afghanistan invasions were humanitarian interventions yet say nothing when China, Burma, Zimbabwe, Israel, Sudan and other states are treating people at least as badly if not worse than Saddam and the Taliban did.
 
mason said:
yea. that's why i was looking forward to it.
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Do you live in China? Recommend any places to visit - away from the usual tourist trail?


The Olympics is another issue. The 2012 one is in London and I'm pissed off at how much of my taxes are being spent on that, when there are millions of better uses for the money here. I hate to think how the lives of the poorest people in China could be improved if they spent the money where it's needed rather than on putting on this big show for the world.
 
mason said:
yea. that's why i was looking forward to it.
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I figured as much... seems a lot of the chinese have bought into their government's propaganda about Tibet being part of china...

LazyHippy said:
Simple answer, No.

Go back far enough and a large chunk of China (and other present-day countries) was part of Tibet, it's only relatively recently (last hundred or so years) that China has actually controlled Tibet.

Given the way the Chinese government has chosen to deal with the issue - nothing less than massacres really - I don't blame the Tibetans at all for taking this opportunity to push for for a more equal relationship, especially considering the way China treats some of it's other territories such as Hong Kong.

The Dalai Lama himself isn't looking for independence, but tbh given the choice I'd much rather have him as a leader than democratically elected regimes such as Hamas, Mugabe and Co, and even the current ones in our countries. I can't think of any other leader of a state in recent history that is as thoughtful, compassionate and (for want of a better word) wise as him and certainly none that has the level of respect he has across the board.

Democracy isn't always the best form of government and an open theocracy lead by the present Dalai Lama would almost certainly be better for it's people than the current repressive regime in China.
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very well put :thumbsup:

Tibet has been a Buddhist kingdom for a long long time... china has murdered a lot of peaceful monks and burned anciet temples to the ground -- sure Tibet had some problems under self-rule, but they were a hell a lot better off than under chinese occupation and oppression...
 
_poto_ said:
I figured as much... seems a lot of the chinese have bought into their government's propaganda about Tibet being part of china...
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what propaganda? Last time i checked No country publicly accepts Tibet as an independent state. There are even treaties signed by countries such as britain and russia stating that tibet is under chinese rule. I'm the last person to ever listen to bullshit propaganda... especially from governments/media.

and by my government I hope you are referring to the USA because I was born and raised here.
 
mason said:
what propaganda? Last time i checked No country publicly accepts Tibet as an independent state. There are even treaties signed by countries such as britain and russia stating that tibet is under chinese rule. I'm the last person to ever listen to bullshit propaganda... especially from governments/media.

and by my government I hope you are referring to the USA because I was born and raised here.
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bullshit lies like this...
YouTube - Seven Lies about Tibet and His Holiness

just do a search on youtube... there are tons and tons of videos, some produced by the chinese government itself in a weak attempt to slander the Dalai Lama... there are some chinese state broadcasts you can catch too, they keep referring to some fictional "Dalai Clique" and saying the Dalai Lama was behind the protests...

china occupies and rules Tibet... but it is not a proper part of china... just because some papers have been signed and maps have been drawn, doesn't mean shit... the people of Tibet are ethnic Tibetan, not chinese and most of them don't want to be a part of china...
 
China is a sovereign country and by international law has a right to it's territorial integrity. However, I can't help but point out that with the recent unilateral declaration of independence by Kosovo, in Serbia, and subsequent recognition by the US and it's EU friends, it's hard to see why Tibet could not do the same. Probably why you don't see China, Russia, Spain, or any other states with separatist movements recognizing Kosovo.
 
_poto_ said:
bullshit lies like this...
YouTube - Seven Lies about Tibet and His Holiness

just do a search on youtube... there are tons and tons of videos, some produced by the chinese government itself in a weak attempt to slander the Dalai Lama... there are some chinese state broadcasts you can catch too, they keep referring to some fictional "Dalai Clique" and saying the Dalai Lama was behind the protests...

china occupies and rules Tibet... but it is not a proper part of china... just because some papers have been signed and maps have been drawn, doesn't mean shit... the people of Tibet are ethnic Tibetan, not chinese and most of them don't want to be a part of china...
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dude everyone slanders each other. I did a quick search like you said and here was an interesting video that came up.
YouTube - Riot in Tibet: True face of western media

hmm nice slander from media outlets.
the point is, proving stuff through youtube is pure shit.

And yea I guess I agree with you on how drawing who owns what on paper doesn't mean much in reality. Same thing happened to the indians and look what happened to them. Same thing is probably going to happen in europe. Just because certain lines are drawn stating who belongs in the EU doesn't mean all those countries should be identified as a single entity. Too bad all those countries in the EU will probably lose their sovereignty through some fucked up legislation in a few years(Don't quote me on that :p).

all this is besides the point though. Bottom line is, the olympics are gonna get fucked up in the end. You wanna know the creepy part? If anyone of you are familiar with john titor (he proclaimed that he was a time traveler and left some predictions and interesting facts which backed his story oddly enough), he stated the olympics in 2008 were going to be canceled. If that does happen I will surely be freaked out by him lol.
 
IronLogik said:
China is a sovereign country and by international law has a right to it's territorial integrity. However, I can't help but point out that with the recent unilateral declaration of independence by Kosovo, in Serbia, and subsequent recognition by the US and it's EU friends, it's hard to see why Tibet could not do the same. Probably why you don't see China, Russia, Spain, or any other states with separatist movements recognizing Kosovo.
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Good point... Scotland will be next!

I watched that 7 lies video and it all seems to come down to "guilty by association". Very propaganda-ish, but I'm sure it goes both ways.

RE: The EU, I'm very much in favour of the concept of further integration, but not the un-elected bureaucracy we've got now... won't be long before Tony B'liar gets coronated President of Europe.

I'd actually love to see a World Government, with every human being on Earth having an equal say in what happens... but us rich countries need to get the poorer ones up to our standard of living first... never gonna happen, we're way too greedy for that.

Sorry, rambling... yeah the Olympics are gonna be fucked. Isn't there a new nationalist government in Taiwan too? They've got the autonomy Tibet wants but it wouldn't surprise me if they take this opportunity to formally declare independence. China wouldn't bomb them during the games would it?
 
Great song on the 7 lies vid btw! :D (But doubt Trent or Macca would like their stuff being used to promote that)
 
mason said:
dude everyone slanders each other. I did a quick search like you said and here was an interesting video that came up.
YouTube - Riot in Tibet: True face of western media

hmm nice slander from media outlets.
the point is, proving stuff through youtube is pure shit.

And yea I guess I agree with you on how drawing who owns what on paper doesn't mean much in reality. Same thing happened to the indians and look what happened to them. Same thing is probably going to happen in europe. Just because certain lines are drawn stating who belongs in the EU doesn't mean all those countries should be identified as a single entity. Too bad all those countries in the EU will probably lose their sovereignty through some fucked up legislation in a few years(Don't quote me on that :p).

all this is besides the point though. Bottom line is, the olympics are gonna get fucked up in the end. You wanna know the creepy part? If anyone of you are familiar with john titor (he proclaimed that he was a time traveler and left some predictions and interesting facts which backed his story oddly enough), he stated the olympics in 2008 were going to be canceled. If that does happen I will surely be freaked out by him lol.
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the photos and vids that the western media showed of the protests in india and nepal were only because that was the only media they could obtain due to chinese censorship... had they been able to get video or photos out of china, I'm sure they would have ran those instead...

as to the john titor thing... well, I'm pretty skeptical of any person claiming to be a time traveler... tho, there was one guy a few years ago I remember reading about... he opened a trading account with $800 and in 2 weeks had made over $300 million or something and had never had a single losing trade... the FBI arrested him and charged him with insider trading... the guy said he was from the future... and based on the fact that his trades involved a number of completely different companies, I'd say it would have been nearly impossible for him to be doing insider trading... wish I could find the articles on that guy, last I heard he was rotting in jail...
 
LazyHippy said:
Good point... Scotland will be next!
I'd actually love to see a World Government, with every human being on Earth having an equal say in what happens... but us rich countries need to get the poorer ones up to our standard of living first... never gonna happen, we're way too greedy for that.
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not only that but the standard of living today(in countries like USA) is dependent on the sufferings of others. If no one suffers(such as penny wages) then everything we have will be reduced to just the bare essentials.
 
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