Call Fall military heroes?
- Thread starter jonas33h
- Start date
Since the U.S. is celebrating the freedoms it has paid so dearly for in blood, sweat, and ruthless drone attacks, I thought Jeffrey Tucker's latest article was particularly well-timed:
Are You The Next Prisoner?
It's a good read. Excerpts...
Are You The Next Prisoner?
It's a good read. Excerpts...
-George Orwell
Funny how relevant a lot of things said in the past are today.
If anyone hasn't read it, found this PDF of "War Is A Racket", it's a 5-minute read and well worth it (although I don't see any realistic way to implement the solutions he suggests, the problem is very real).
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/warisaracket.pdf
I'm a veteran and was in Iraq, and I personally don't feel that ALL (or most) in the military are heroes, and just like every other area in life it comes down to individual actions and motivations - and your personal definition of a "hero".
But I also need to defend against some of the negative comments here. I know a lot of people who have served, and in my experience very few people join because they have a desire to kill or die a hero.
I'm appalled by our Government and our national policy. But hindsight is 20/20, and having personally gone through the indoctrination process since being born, it's hard for me to not see the majority of the military as people who've been deceived by those who wage the wars. I won't make sweeping statements but many of those I personally know really do have pure intentions.
When I was 17 all I cared about was girls partying and getting through school. My entire worldview was based on everything I'd been spoon fed growing up. I had no idea how the world really works.
When I was 18, 9/11 happened.
In my view at the time, they hated us and our freedom. They were waging war because they were "evil" and we were the "good guys".
And 9/11 was just the beginning. They were going to start attacking us with chemical weapons, dirty bombs, suitcase nukes, etc etc.
This was my generation's WW2, and it was my patriotic duty to go fight the good fight to protect my family and the freedom of my country.
It wasn't until later, when I was in Baghdad that I took off the blinders and started seeing the true motives and realized we were all fighting in the name of bullshit.
If you could see the world for what it really is at 18 years old, more power to you.
I couldn't.
And I don't blame anyone else who doesn't, because they're up against a helluva propaganda machine, and it works very well.
Anyway, I think arguing over whether or not our troops are heroes or bloodthirsty killers or just doing what they're taught to believe is right is trivial.
Like Jake said, as long as there's a Hitler to fight there will be no problem rallying (or drafting) the troops.
I think the bigger question here is that if you want to stop the wars, how do you prevent those with the power and motivations to wage war from doing so?
How do you change the system? Or do you?
EDIT: IB4 "learn to use paragraphs"...
tl;dr - Who cares how we label the troops, how do you fix the system?
You have to start at the fundamental question.
Is the system capable of being fixed? Or does it possess inherent contradictions that will keep it from achieving peaceful goals?
Probably not without being broken first. And breaking it wouldn't be peaceful. The powers that be wouldn't go down peacefully. One thing that's scary to me, I agree with the message of "War Is A Racket", but that was written before nuclear weapons.
There's a lot of money to be made in mutually assured destruction. Especially when those who stand to turn a profit can watch it unfold from a safe remote location.
I'd love to hear from anyone who has a more optimistic point of view on the subject. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see the incentive for waging bigger and deadlier wars disappearing anytime soon.
Thats what makes them hero, especially the fallen one
Thats a retard comparison
post carried does not requires you to be blown out by IDE in a foreign land
Really? Suicide bomber explodes himself with the intention of taking as many innocent lives as possible.
Soldier does not go out to take lives, sometimes they have to, but thats not what they set out to do
inb4 random youtube videos showing soldiers went berserk
Are you implying that American soldiers don't take innocent lives, or that "enemy" soldiers forfeit their innocence the moment they march into battle?
Just let me know which so I can decide what sort of blind spot you are dealing with here.
I think a lot of people look at this too black and white. Some of these people are heroes to me. Sure, most are uneducated and have no idea how to begin to recognize what they are fighting for. They might not see the bigger picture but individually heroic things happen all the time.
I have a very optimistic future view.
Humanity is evolving. It is just slow and ugly.
Think about how far we have come in the last 1000 years. No more divine right of kings. Some degree of racial equality. Some degree of sexual equality. Free cultural exchange. Travel. Science.
Lots to be optimistic about, although I think it is easier to be optimistic if you are helping push the scrum towards the endzone.
Great post on Lew Rockwell about this subject:
An Open Letter to the Troops: You’re Not Defending Our Freedoms by Jacob G. Hornberger
Excerpt:
An Open Letter to the Troops: You’re Not Defending Our Freedoms by Jacob G. Hornberger
Excerpt:
I agree. There's definitely hope in the sense that we've managed to not destroy ourselves since we've had the capability to do so over the last century, from mustard gas to nukes.
As pessimistic as my last post sounded, I'm loving life. I can't complain. I see the state as a threat to my freedom, which is why I take these threads seriously. And that's a big reason I like this forum. Very bright people.
I don't lay awake at night worrying about nuclear holocaust. That would be a waste of life. I just hope we're evolving fast enough to avoid it.
No they don't, not intentionally. I was also not talking about the enemy soldiers as the comparison was with suicide bombers. Enemy soldiers maybe heroes to their home countries too.
Not blind spot, just seeing it as it is.
And the winner of the most naive comment this year goes to ... Tall_Building!
If memorial day is about honoring "those killed in service of defending our way of life" (a wholly laudable reason for a special day), it should include:
- Coal miners
- Oil rig workers
- Illegal immigrants who die in meat packing plant accidents
- Agricultural workers who die from pesticide poisoning
- Freight drivers who die on the road
- Chinese workers in electronics factories who die from accident or suicide
- Ogoni tribespeople who starve to death in the Niger delta because oil companies have poisoned their land
Got it covered, jack.
Coal miners - LABOR DAY
Oil rig workers - LABOR DAY
Illegal immigrants who die in meat packing plant accidents - 4th JULY
Agricultural workers who die from pesticide poisoning - ARBOR DAY
Freight drivers who die on the road - LABOR DAY
Chinese workers in electronics factories who die from accident or suicide - COMPUTER DAY
Ogoni tribespeople who starve to death in the Niger delta because oil companies have poisoned their land - KWANZAA
And for dead soldiers, we have MEMORIAL DAY.
/thread...
Just because someone dies or rather gets killed doesn't make one a hero and no one is fighting for your freedom.
Seriously who truly believes a solider is FIGHTING or DYING for your FREEDOMS.
Having talked to some cats that seen and done shit over there and I don't mean playing COD while sitting in a wet CHU.
They're the ones who told me what they do is bullshit. Once you're over there it's about surviving.
I'm more fond of the nerdy anti-missile shit than aggressive war. Saving lives on either side = heroes, taking them = terrorist ... depending on perspective
I like Washington and Jackson for cultivating a society that led to the NFL.
My grandfather was in 2 wars .. and fathered my mom. I'm a fan of him.
I celebrated my heroes in my own way ... working.
For the angry above: it weren't for the past few decades of military aggression you'd be singing a different tune. Bad policies don't necessarily make bad people. Some would argue the south had more "bad people" than the north, however the aggression of that war were the bad policies of Lincoln. Politics and war are always synonymous and evil.
Living potheads get 4/20