Confused Believer

[wezcountry]

I was a pretty ardent Christian for about 20 years. I'd been to theology school and maybe read 500 or more Christian books. However, about 3 or 4 years ago I started to think about evil and then the morality of Yahweh. I read 4 or 5 books that critiqued the Bible and basically, the more I exposed my beliefs to reason, the more they were undermined and shown to be ludicrous, until in the end I guess I could be called a 'de-converted Christian'.

I still believe in a God, though I cannot prove he/she/it exists but I'm fine with that.

Last week I was in the UK at a party and got chatting to some hard-line Christians there. When I say hard-line, I mean believing Noah's Ark is true, that the Earth is around 6000 years old, that the genocide and ethnic cleansing in the OT is ok because God sanctioned it. At one point I had my back to the wall and 4 people debating with me. What was interesting was that if you pin them down on specifics, they switch over the nonsense like 'god's plan', 'needing faith', 'we don't know everything' etc.

The whole point of this rant is that when you expose Christianity to reason it crumbles very quickly - it just cannot stand-up to rational thought.

 

[WingAndAPrayer]

I never learned in church that science and God/faith are mutually exclusive.


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They don't HAVE to be mutually exclusive, but it certainly requires some mental gymnastics for anybody with a scientific mind to have 100% belief in something for which there is and can never be conclusive proof or replicable experiments

 

[wezcountry]

I never learned in church that science and God/faith are mutually exclusive.


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They pretty much are. A close reading of the two creation stories in Genesis 1 and 2 will show that to be true. Just one of many examples is that God created plants (which depend on photosynthesis) before he created the sun. He also created the 'light' before the sun, moon and stars. And so on ...

 

[RoughOutline]

Wait a sec, some people on here actually believe that shite? Does it matter what chapter it is? Isn't the point that the whole bible is the word of god through lord baby jesus, therefore you can't say "well it's only a few chapters..." because it's still the word of god, you can't be selective.

 

[Chianti]

Just lost a load of respect for Deliguy. Would think twice about doing business with
anyone who thinks the universe works in the way described in the bible/koran.

 

[WingAndAPrayer]

Wait a sec, some people on here actually believe that shite? Does it matter what chapter it is? Isn't the point that the whole bible is the word of god through lord baby jesus, therefore you can't say "well it's only a few chapters..." because it's still the word of god, you can't be selective.

I think you're thinking of the Qu'ran. The majority of Christians have long admitted that large portions of their holy book is borderline retarded, namely that little section called "The Old Testament".

Most will now point you to the New Testament when talking about their beliefs, they're quite happy to be selective.

It's Islam that specifically states that all muslims must believe every word of the Qu'ran (because it is the direct word of the Prophet and therefore Allah), otherwise they're not a muslim.
So they have to believe all the little things like the kuffār (non-believers) having their skin burned off in eternal flames, only to be given new skin so they can feel the pain of it being burned again...

But remember, it's the religion of peace

 

[Rusky]

So much hate from the almighty and reasonable atheist overloads. Dumb Christians are so stupid and ignorant.

Atheist Christopher Hitchens could be 'saved' by evangelical Christian - Telegraph

Underestimate much or jealous much. We do everything better, look it up. Even science.

 

[dogfighter]

I never learned in church that science and God/faith are mutually exclusive.


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That's because science doesn't need you in order to exist. You don't have to be TAUGHT that fire is dangerous.. my fucking cat runs away when I hit my lighter. You don't have to be TAUGHT cancer is bad... get some and you'll figure it out.

In "church" you learn what you are told to learn because if you weren't TAUGHT to need god, you wouldn't. Inventing need is one of the foundations of marketing.

 

[Ar Scion]

If a man rapes an unbetrothed virgin, he must pay her father 50 shekels of silver and then marry her. Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel’s father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.
Deuteronomy 22:28-29

Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones. Psalm 137:9

And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Uzza, and he smote him, because he put his hand to the ark: and there he died before God....
Chronicles 13:10

And God was displeased with this thing; therefore he smote Israel....
Chronicles 21:7

And it came to pass that night, that the angel of the LORD went out, and smote in the camp of the Assyrians an hundred fourscore and five thousand:...
Kings 19:35


Genesis 19:31-32

Why are you getting worked up over something that happened thousands of years ago?

 

[RoughOutline]

What the fuck are you on about? No religion is peaceful so don't try and smear one religion to Christianity seem even slightly sane.

Religion is completely retarded. People arguing against religion is retarded, watching a jew, a christian and a muslim all argue, is liking watching kids argue which is crayon is the most magical.

Anyone who believes in religion should be listed as mentally ill.

 

[DanWesson]

Just lost a load of respect for Deliguy. Would think twice about doing business with
anyone who thinks the universe works in the way described in the bible/koran.

Riiiigggghhhht. You must get funny looks from people when you ask them their philosophical beliefs before handing over the money for your purchases.

 

[jacky8]

Just lost a load of respect for Deliguy. Would think twice about doing business with
anyone who thinks the universe works in the way described in the bible/koran.

According to the law of Chianti, the more you believe in athiesm, the more respect you should get. Clearly you aren't a person decent enough to do business with as you decide whom to do business with or not according to their personal religious beliefs.

Still give examples of rationality / logic etc..

 

[Deliguy]

Just lost a load of respect for Deliguy. Would think twice about doing business with
anyone who thinks the universe works in the way described in the bible/koran.

lol you would really not do business with someone because of their religious beliefs? Hahaha! That's some good hillbilly shit right there. :laughing-smiley-007
Good luck trying to even put gas in your car

 

[wiredniko]

I never learned in church that science and God/faith are mutually exclusive.

Have you heard of Galileo?

The problem is that church denies science that goes against its beliefs so they basically always push against advancing society.

The heliocentric theory was such a debate.

Right now we are dealing with evolution.

There is always something that church will try to deny because science by design questions the way things are.

Church by design does not question anything since its faith/dogma based.

 

[turbolapp]

This is why context is always important in any kind of fancy dancy book learnin'. Today, some hardcore bible thumpers, we call them "religious nuts", don't take into account the context of these two books so they try to follow all these crazy rules.

If this book was written by God then those are they rules, If you choose to follow God, you gotta try to follow God's word to the letter. At least these "religious nuts" have less of a slippery slope than the people that pick and choose. Because when you start only picking out the parts you like you gotta wonder why those are "right" but the parts you're leaving behind are wrong. IF your argument is "times were crazy back then, this is just a reflection of that" then you gotta wonder why you're following the bible at all since it was all written "back in crazyville" times.

This is why I highly suggest you just dismiss it all together

 

[Chianti]

> lol you would really not do business with someone because of their religious beliefs?

Not quite. I said I'd think twice about it. If they're into that sort of thing, there's no telling what other mad shit they believe, and there's a chance that some of those warped perspectives might affect their approach to business in some negative manner.

Of course, I'm not talking about the mouth breathers that serve you gas or work at a checkout; I'm talking about people who you make contracts and deals with, and who claim they can help you expand your business.

How can you possibly trust someone who sees no shame in sharing the fact that they sincerely think angels, demons and devils exist?

 

[Deliguy]

>
How can you possibly trust someone who sees no shame in sharing the fact that they sincerely think angels, demons and devils exist?

Valid question. I think it's because atheism preaches that people don't need religion or a threat of a heaven and a hell to dictate their morals and to be a good person. One of my employees is hardcore athiest. I don't hang over his shoulder thinking he's going to steal from the company because he's an athiest. He's a great guy and super honest. He doesn't need to have the same beliefs as me to keep his morals. Likewise he's never witnessed me doing anything crazy or untrustworthy. Ya know us Christians. We love to randomly go on crusades killing folks that aren't christian He better watch his ass I could go all christian crazy any...moment...NOW.

This was me last summer. Good times!

 

[turbolapp]

Valid question. I think it's because atheism preaches that people don't need religion or a threat of a heaven and a hell to dictate their morals and to be a good person. One of my employees is hardcore athiest. I don't hang over his shoulder thinking he's going to steal from the company because he's an athiest. He's a great guy and super honest. He doesn't need to have the same beliefs as me to keep his morals. Likewise he's never witnessed me doing anything crazy or untrustworthy. Ya know us Christians. We love to randomly go on crusades killing folks that aren't christian He better watch his ass I could go all christian crazy any...moment...NOW.

This was me last summer. Good times!

There are certain Christians (albeit few) that I don't hold it against them. These particular Christians don't let their quirky ideas and superstitious cloud their everyday judgement or personalities. I'm not quite sure how they're able to just put it on a shelf like that, that but they do. I've always considered you one of these special few.

 

[Andrew Scherer]

> lol you would really not do business with someone because of their religious beliefs?

Not quite. I said I'd think twice about it. If they're into that sort of thing, there's no telling what other mad shit they believe, and there's a chance that some of those warped perspectives might affect their approach to business in some negative manner.

Of course, I'm not talking about the mouth breathers that serve you gas or work at a checkout; I'm talking about people who you make contracts and deals with, and who claim they can help you expand your business.

How can you possibly trust someone who sees no shame in sharing the fact that they sincerely think angels, demons and devils exist?

Atheist extremism and religious extremists: the same nuts, just grown on a different tree.

The religion of someone or lack thereof is a bane on society and the mere fact that you pointed out you would "second-guess" doing business with someone because of their beliefs says that you're just as much a part of the problem, rather than the solution.

 

[Rage9]

Atheist extremism and religious extremists: the same nuts, just grown on a different tree.

The religion of someone or lack thereof is a bane on society and the mere fact that you pointed out you would "second-guess" doing business with someone because of their beliefs proves that you're just as much a part of the problem, rather than the solution.

Says a religious butt hurt person. Religious people don't like to be called out. So naturally deflecting that Atheist are indeed radical or extream or the problem is the way to go. Believe me bro, Atheists aren't the problem. You act like they should just sit on the sidelines and let everyone go on their marry way.