Fight For 15

J

JakeStratham

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Oct 28, 2009
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You already know Seattle raised its minimum wage to $15. That went into effect two weeks ago. If you're like me, you completely missed the fact that there's a big movement called "Fight For 15" that seeks similar laws in other cities...


Raleigh, NC

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Berkeley, CA

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Fort Lauderdale, FL

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New York City, NY

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Denver, CO

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... and so on.


Some states are considering laws that will impose a fee on companies for each worker making less than $15 an hour.

The fast food industry, home to countless workers who make significantly less than $15/hour, is currently in the spotlight. Pundits opine that pushing the minimum wage to $15 could increase the cost of food and even lead to an increased rate of restaurant closures.

Seattle businesses have been given a number of years to move their employees to $15 an hour. (The time frame for compliance depends on the size of the workforce.) So, we'll likely not see major effects for a few more years.

My reason for posting this? Mostly because I had no idea the movement existed. If you were in the dark like me, now you know. :)


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oy9JsppEJR8[/ame]



I suspect politicians are champing at the bit to position themselves on the matter in a way that curries favor from their constituents.
 


I was surprised to learn that the minimum wage for wait staff is still $2.13, and has been there for 21+ years.

Not an issue in many restaurants, as the tips are pretty good. However, there are some places where that doesn't work well at all. For example, some places have forced tip pooling, where the tips are split with cooks, bus boys, etc, that make the higher minimum wage of $7.25.

Or, some wait staff work in places where the tips are either infrequent, or low across the board. For example, there are people making $2.13 at buffet style restaurants, where they only do table service for drinks. Customers there often don't tip at all, or tip low.
 
rish3 said:
I was surprised to learn that the minimum wage for wait staff is still $2.13, and has been there for 21+ years.

Not an issue in many restaurants, as the tips are pretty good. However, there are some places where that doesn't work well at all. For example, some places have forced tip pooling, where the tips are split with cooks, bus boys, etc, that make the higher minimum wage of $7.25.

Or, some wait staff work in places where the tips are either infrequent, or low across the board. For example, there are people making $2.13 at buffet style restaurants, where they only do table service for drinks. Customers there often don't tip at all, or tip low.
Click to expand...

To add to this, employers are required to provide the difference if tips aren't sufficient to break the actual minimum wage. These people make the same minimum wage as everyone else, but the effect of the law is that their first ~$5/hour in tips are effectively paid to the restaurant.
 
To add to this, employers are required to provide the difference if tips aren't sufficient to break the actual minimum wage.
Click to expand...

Unless there's been some huge change I missed, this doesn't actually happen. Wait staff pocket the tips, and management has no idea what they made or not.

Perhaps it happens in tip pooling environments where someone other than the wait staff actually counts.
 
Increased minimum wage won't negatively affect me since I don't and are not planning to hire minimum wage staff for what I do. Neither should it to virtually everyone in this forum. We are in the technology sector FFS.

It will increase the purchasing power of my target audience. Probably like wise for most people here.

Therefore... Go $15!

To all ideological/moral/other arguments: I don't care. No one is looking out for me except me. So it makes sense I do the same with others. Sure, some of the minimum wage guys will be replaced by automation. But the one's who aren't will have more spending monies for the type of crap people on WF sell.
 
rish3 said:
Unless there's been some huge change I missed, this doesn't actually happen. Wait staff pocket the tips, and management has no idea what they made or not.

Perhaps it happens in tip pooling environments where someone other than the wait staff actually counts.
Click to expand...

That's on the wait staff for pocketing the tips instead of claiming them like they are supposed to.

If there's has to be a minimum wage, then I'm for there being a standard minimum wage across the board and the ability to tip anyone we want to in any job for any reason we want instead of it only being "normal" to tip certain jobs over others, etc.

Insert Reservoir Dogs clip here.
 
That's on the wait staff for pocketing the tips instead of claiming them like they are supposed to.
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That's not really the point. They are encouraged not to report the cash tips, sometimes with a "or else" context. The restaurant owners make up numbers, mostly not for the "wage makeup" reason, but to reduce their tax burden. Of course, while making up numbers, they also handily avoid the "wage makeup" problem. The numbers magically end up in a sweet spot of "minimally believable by the IRS" and "least cost to the restaurant".

Ask a few servers about slow tip weeks and whether they got the higher minimum wage when the tips fell short. Especially ones that work in environments likely to have low tips.
 
Still don't get why waiters aren't on at least minimum wage and why the customers have to subsidise their salaries. How did this come about?

Tips should be for service that is over and above what is generally expected of staff and they should never be obligatory or customers made to feel that they are.

Pay the staff proper wages and have customers leave reasonable tips (e.g. 10%) for service if they feel like the waiter deserves it. What's wrong with that?
 
nickster said:
Still don't get why waiters aren't on at least minimum wage and why the customers have to subsidise their salaries. How did this come about?

Tips should be for service that is over and above what is generally expected of staff and they should never be obligatory or customers made to feel that they are.

Pay the staff proper wages and have customers leave reasonable tips (e.g. 10%) for service if they feel like the waiter deserves it. What's wrong with that?
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TBH I don't think it's that broken of a system and it works.

Someone goes to a restaurant. If the customer is happy with the results of the overall brand the representative gets the tip. If there's no tip and the server makes below minimum wage they're not fit for the job and fired/change positions. If there's an extremely high turnover rate because waiters/waitresses receiving additional money to meet minimum wage there's probably problems elsewhere.

I would think that puts more pressure on the restaurant, more-so the employee too. The less valuable a waitress/waiter is the less they can bounce around and be picky for where they work. Takes more off the customer.

I could be totally wrong though I've never worked in the food industry as an employee/owner. Just a restaurant/bar client here and there. That's just sites/local SEO though.
 
greenleaves said:
Increased minimum wage won't negatively affect me since I don't and are not planning to hire minimum wage staff for what I do. Neither should it to virtually everyone in this forum. We are in the technology sector FFS.

It will increase the purchasing power of my target audience. Probably like wise for most people here.

Therefore... Go $15!

To all ideological/moral/other arguments: I don't care. No one is looking out for me except me. So it makes sense I do the same with others. Sure, some of the minimum wage guys will be replaced by automation. But the one's who aren't will have more spending monies for the type of crap people on WF sell.
Click to expand...

Costs will eventually go up. Businesses that rely on minimum wage workers will eventually close. And all of a sudden that $15/hr is worth $7.25 again.

Not to mention all those that make $16-20/hr now in actual jobs that require some level of skill. They will want increases, and their bosses will want increases, so forth and so on until there's no profit left and those businesses will fold.

Great idea.
 
rish3 said:
That's not really the point. They are encouraged not to report the cash tips, sometimes with a "or else" context. The restaurant owners make up numbers, mostly not for the "wage makeup" reason, but to reduce their tax burden. Of course, while making up numbers, they also handily avoid the "wage makeup" problem. The numbers magically end up in a sweet spot of "minimally believable by the IRS" and "least cost to the restaurant".

Ask a few servers about slow tip weeks and whether they got the higher minimum wage when the tips fell short. Especially ones that work in environments likely to have low tips.
Click to expand...

Again, it's on the servers in that scenario regardless of the "or else" or whatever else is going on. If they don't do what they are supposed to do, then it's on them until they do.
 
FillWerrell said:
Costs will eventually go up. Businesses that rely on minimum wage workers will eventually close. And all of a sudden that $15/hr is worth $7.25 again.
Click to expand...

$15 might be a bit overboard, but $7.25 doesn't really make sense either.

$7.25 is well below any previous minimum wage, adjusted either for inflation, or other reasonable indexes.

An interesting comparison.

1968. Cost of a Big Mac: $0.49, Minimum Wage: $1.60
Big Macs earned per hour: 3.26

2014. Cost of a Big Mac: $3.99, Minimum Wage: $7.25
Big Macs earned per hour: 1.81

Inflation adjusted pricing for 1968 Big Mac: $3.30
Inflation adjusted minimum wage from $1.60 in 1968: $10.79
 
Again, it's on the servers in that scenario regardless of the "or else" or whatever else is going on. If they don't do what they are supposed to do, then it's on them until they do.
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So, it's on an individual server to become a whistleblower for an issue that clearly extends beyond a single restaurant? Heh.
 
FillWerrell said:
Costs will eventually go up. Businesses that rely on minimum wage workers will eventually close. And all of a sudden that $15/hr is worth $7.25 again.

Not to mention all those that make $16-20/hr now in actual jobs that require some level of skill. They will want increases, and their bosses will want increases, so forth and so on until there's no profit left and those businesses will fold.

Great idea.
Click to expand...

Once the $15/hr becomes worth $7.25 again you just raise it to $30/hr. Don't you understand economics and inflation? This is a natural, mathematical part of the business cycle and we have to keep raising the minimum wage to keep up with inflation. Things cost more and you have to keep up with those costs otherwise the economy will come to a stop. You have to have people spending otherwise you won't have an economy. :usa:

</dipship>
<boobs>

Super_Model_i_Pad_4_wallpaper_ilikewallpaper_com.jpg

</boobs>
 
JulianTrueFlynn said:
TBH I don't think it's that broken of a system and it works.

Someone goes to a restaurant. If the customer is happy with the results of the overall brand the representative gets the tip. If there's no tip and the server makes below minimum wage they're not fit for the job and fired/change positions. If there's an extremely high turnover rate because waiters/waitresses receiving additional money to meet minimum wage there's probably problems elsewhere.

I would think that puts more pressure on the restaurant, more-so the employee too. The less valuable a waitress/waiter is the less they can bounce around and be picky for where they work. Takes more off the customer.

I could be totally wrong though I've never worked in the food industry as an employee/owner. Just a restaurant/bar client here and there. That's just sites/local SEO though.
Click to expand...

The system works in Europe and most of the world without huge rise in prices. I can get 3 course meal for €8 in a restaurant that serves pretty good food in Spain.
Or I can go to buffet and eat all I can eat for €9 in a fancy place.
Yet employees make usually slightly above minimum wage, people barely tip (only when the service is superb) and everyone is happy, because wait staff have steady and guaranteed income, rather than being on roller coaster.
The best way for US would be to look around and see if this works in majority of other countries rather than experiment and wonder how bad it can be.
 
rish3 said:
$15 might be a bit overboard, but $7.25 doesn't really make sense either.

$7.25 is well below any previous minimum wage, adjusted either for inflation, or other reasonable indexes.

An interesting comparison.

1968. Cost of a Big Mac: $0.49, Minimum Wage: $1.60
Big Macs earned per hour: 3.26

2014. Cost of a Big Mac: $3.99, Minimum Wage: $7.25
Big Macs earned per hour: 1.81

Inflation adjusted pricing for 1968 Big Mac: $3.30
Inflation adjusted minimum wage from $1.60 in 1968: $10.79
Click to expand...

Yep, $1.60 went farther in 1968 than it does today. But the marketplace was a hell of a lot simpler than compared to today. Minimum wage earners weren't paying for cell phones, cable tv, etc. So even with inflation, 10.79 still isn't enough to live on for minimum wage workers.

But here's the thing. Minimum wage jobs aren't meant to be careers. They're meant to be career starters. That's how people learn how to work for someone. In minimum wage jobs.

I'm sick of these dumb people complaining that they don't make enough when they're looking to establish themselves as chief burger flipper at their local mcdonalds. It's not my fault they didn't take advantage of their schooling. Not my fault they had five kids before they turned 20 and this is all they can do. They made piss poor decisions. Not me.

Anyone who wants to see the minimum wage raised, you can start by donating your money to these workers. Just write them checks. Start with that. Let's see how generous you are with your own money.
 
slayerment said:
Once the $15/hr becomes worth $7.25 again you just raise it to $30/hr. Don't you understand economics and inflation? This is a natural, mathematical part of the business cycle and we have to keep raising the minimum wage to keep up with inflation. Things cost more and you have to keep up with those costs otherwise the economy will come to a stop. You have to have people spending otherwise you won't have an economy. :usa:

</dipship>
<boobs>

Super_Model_i_Pad_4_wallpaper_ilikewallpaper_com.jpg

</boobs>
Click to expand...

Not sure if serious, but both your point and your picture are extremely disappointing.
 
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