Getting ripped and Paleo eating

[avatar33]

In the 60s, there wasn't an Ivy League university that didn't endorse Communism. And so?

Also, correlation is not causation. I shouldn't have to tell you that.

On the one hand, you say it's too complex, on the other hand, you offer logical fallacies as to why it's conclusive.

Where I come from, that's called bullshit. YMMV.


So is drinking water, sleeping and living in general.


Smoking is associated with 100% mortality.

Not smoking is associated with 100% mortality.

In my previous post I clearly said that there is a correlation, not causation. If you have cancer and heart disease in your genes, you sit in front of a computer every day and you eat a giant rare steak every day, you're probably increasing your risk factors by X percent, as opposed to if replaced that steak with a salad. That's what all these studies are trying to say. If you think it's BS, it's your right, I don't.

Now, like I always say, everyone is different, and it's up to each and everyone of us to do their own split testing. I personally realized that every time I ate meat for dinner, I slept like shit, woke up exhausted and with high blood pressure. When I replaced it with fresh salmon or tuna, I slept like a baby.

You know, I view health a lot like SEO. We know the basic factors, and we know there is a certain degree of correlation between what we're doing and the results we're getting, but we can't say for sure that X caused Y.

Almost all of these red meat studies conveniently left out a key data point: how the animal was raised.

Since I have better things to do with my time, the tl;dr summary is: meat from grain-fed animals is positively linked with heart disease, but meat from pasture raised animals is perfectly healthy.

I agree, but that's also what I was saying earlier about Mark Sisson, he basically said that "any type of meat is healthier than any type of pizza". Think about that for a second, a slice of McDonald's BigMac meat is healthier than a fresh tomato & basil pizza from a 3 star Michelin restaurant in Napoli?

 

[guerilla]

Think about that for a second, a slice of McDonald's BigMac meat is healthier than a fresh tomato & basil pizza from a 3 star Michelin restaurant in Napoli?

Yes because wheat in particular contains anti-nutrients. Unlike seeds, grains are not meant to be consumed. Grasses and grains spread by wind, not like fruit seeds, by digestion.

Do you know what celiac disease is? Do you understand what leaky gut is?

Why is diabetes and obesity becoming rampant in an increasingly carbohydrate fueled society?

Have you seen what people who eat Paleo look like? They look young, and ripped and lean and healthy. They don't get sick. They have great tone to their skin.

Is this coincidence? Maybe. But I don't know anyone who eats primal/paleo and isn't lean or losing weight.

What about Mark talking about intermittent fasting? Calorie underconsumption is linked to life extension. There are no obese 80 year olds.

It's a sophisticated topic I have been looking into for many years, and I feel like I only understand some basic ideas. You jokers watch a single video, and having already demonstrated a tendency on this forum to be anti-critical thinkers, proceed to flip out when something different is proposed.

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter. People who low carb, slow carb, primal or paleo are happy doing what they are doing, and it doesn't influence your life at all (except it seems, make you really upset someone is doing something differently than you)

I dunno, I am just so tired of the pervasive ignorance, which is mostly willful, in this society, and how it manifests itself in discussions with most people, but particularly on this forum, where guys who have never had an original idea in their life, flip out when someone proposes that the convention wisdom (that is demonstrably and empirically failing) is wrong.

You motherfuckers are why we can't have nice things.

/unsubbed to go eat some protein and fat.

 

[Cygnus]

Intermittent fasting and lower carb dietary plans like paleo or Atkins go great together. I'm a fan of eatstopeat (1 more hour till I break my 24 hr fast). I'm strong because I lift and am still able to put on muscle with fasted workouts due to consuming the right macros a few hours after said workout and am losing fat because I'm occasionally in these calorie deficits. I have a long ways to go before I am satisfied, but the tenants preached by the IF crowd are backed by mounds of research.

Fuck breakfast. Lift now, eat later.

 

[avatar33]

Yes because wheat in particular contains anti-nutrients. Unlike seeds, grains are not meant to be consumed. Grasses and grains spread by wind, not like fruit seeds, by digestion.

Do you know what celiac disease is? Do you understand what leaky gut is?

Why is diabetes and obesity becoming rampant in an increasingly carbohydrate fueled society?

Have you seen what people who eat Paleo look like? They look young, and ripped and lean and healthy. They don't get sick. They have great tone to their skin.

Is this coincidence? Maybe. But I don't know anyone who eats primal/paleo and isn't lean or losing weight.

What about Mark talking about intermittent fasting? Calorie underconsumption is linked to life extension. There are no obese 80 year olds.

It's a sophisticated topic I have been looking into for many years, and I feel like I only understand some basic ideas. You jokers watch a single video, and having already demonstrated a tendency on this forum to be anti-critical thinkers, proceed to flip out when something different is proposed.

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter. People who low carb, slow carb, primal or paleo are happy doing what they are doing, and it doesn't influence your life at all (except it seems, make you really upset someone is doing something differently than you)

I dunno, I am just so tired of the pervasive ignorance, which is mostly willful, in this society, and how it manifests itself in discussions with most people, but particularly on this forum, where guys who have never had an original idea in their life, flip out when someone proposes that the convention wisdom (that is demonstrably and empirically failing) is wrong.

You motherfuckers are why we can't have nice things.

/unsubbed to go eat some protein and fat.

"I've never met someone that eats paleo and isn't ripped". Anecdotal evidence perhaps? You should know this statement means nothing.

Trust me guerilla I know way more about health and nutrition than you think. It's always been my passion. I've tried different types of diets myself. I know what works for me, and I learn more every day. So please leave the noob questions aside.

Now, I never said Paleo was bullshit, just like I never said that Veganism, Pescetarianism or Frutarianism were BS (BTW can you believe that guy got that 6 pack only from eating fruits? Wonder what Sisson would think). I do agree that consuming too much carbs is bad. I do agree that intermittent fasting has its benefits. I personally don't eat that much bread, and rarely any grains. I do NOT agree with their position on meat, fruits & veggies.

I believe all diets bring some valid points. (Fuck I feel like I would say the same thing about religions. I knew this would turn into a religious debate). That said, I don't spit on science. If there is a gazillion studies from reputable organizations that say smoking tobacco is a major factor in lung cancer, I'm not gonna say: "fuck 'em all! I'll do my own testing. I'll fucking smoke 3 packs a day for 30 years and see if that causes anything." ... Same deal with red meat, if all these studies are coming up with the same conclusions, I'll certainly won't ignore them and eat 2 steaks a day.

You know, every time someone comes along with a new diet idea, and is somewhat ripped and well spoken, you'll see tons of followers blindly jump on the bandwagon without showing any sign of critical thinking. That's where we're at. People are desperate.

This Mark Sisson came at the right time. Vegans and vegetarians have been stealing the show these past couple years. Meat lovers were tired of being shat on and were desperately waiting for their prophet. Here is is, with his 6-pack, books and studies. Let 'em have it.

 

[charlie.simm]

When visiting Mark's Daily Apple, as a marketer, don't you notice something strange right on the fucking homepage?

I dunno but that's just plain wrong.

The Mark's Daily Apple dude is basically the spiritual leader of the primal living movement, for lack of a better term.

So as a spiritual leader, why the fuck does he have to sell supplements?

I mean seriously, wtf?

You wanna convince people that maybe some of the answers to their nutrition-related questions can come from analyzing the way our ancestors lived... fair enough.

But by placing that supplement ad right on your homepage, you're basically saying "dude, let's all be healthy by living like our ancestors...... PS: wanna buy some supplements?"

Ok, you want to make money.

Again, fair enough.

Sell books, be a speaker, do whatever the fuck you want within reason but by pushing supplements, you're being nothing more than a hypocrite.

A lot of people who love this primal thing basically say stuff like "we've been conditioned by society to eat crappy processed food and it's ruining our health" and I agree 100%.

A lot of vegans say the same thing.

A lot of vegetarians say the same thing.

And they're all fucking right!

Processed food sucks and I always cringe whenever I see a paleo/vegan/vegetarian/whatever guru pushing pills, supplements and all that crap.

I noticed this frequently:

1) Paleo guys who are proud of their lifestyle, yet eat shitty processed meat products like there's no tomorrow

2) Vegans who talk about how evil meat is while enjoying some shitty processed vegan food

3) Vegetarians who... you get the point

They're all so fucking proud of themselves when, in fact, they're all pretty much doing the same thing: accepting the easy way out by being willing to ingest tasty, conveniently packaged yet unhealthy food.

As marketers, you guys should know better and I can't believe that after 3 pages, nobody called out the Mark's Daily Apple guy for blatantly pushing processed crap.

The paleo philosophy has its merits, the vegan philosophy has its merits, the vegetarian philosophy has its merits... as long as all paleo folks/vegans/vegetarians understand that processed food is the #1 enemy.

Until that happens, it's kind of like watching an argument between a notorious smoker, a drug addict and an alcoholic.

Maybe you're the smoker/drug addict/alcoholic and you're right when saying that the other two people made worse lifestyle choices but you're missing the point: you're all addicted to something, so why not address that first?

 

[BlueYonder]

I've been eating low cal and low carb for weeks, and exercising on the treadmill almost every day. Still, the weight is coming off too slowly and getting me impatient. Women just lose weight slower. It's in the biology.

I just purchased a bottle of raspberry ketone from eBay. Sorry that I didn't do your free trial rebill offer. Hopefully it'll give my metabolism a little kick. I write so much copy for this product, I'm finally gonna sample the goods. Cost me only $7 to try and no auto-ship.

I guess this is not very paleo. Okay, flame me now.

 

[avatar33]

Hopefully it'll give my metabolism a little kick.

You should try green tea, daily.

 

[BlueYonder]

You should try green tea, daily.

Green tea supplement, or regular tea? I already drink a brew of green and black tea daily.

 

[avatar33]

Green tea supplement, or regular tea? I already drink a brew of green and black tea daily.

I never tried supplements, so I can't tell. I'm talking about pure loose leaf tea (more potent than tea bags). First thing in the morning on an empty stomach. (If your stomach can handle it, some people can't.) It'll kickstart every single digestive organ. I learned this trick in China, I never lost so much weight as when I lived there... even though I was eating a lot of deep fried stuff and drinking a lot of beer.

 

[Grim111]

I am in pretty decent shape but I want to be totally fucking ripped. I know I probably wont put in the work to sustain that kind of body but I want to do it once just to say I did. Problem is I hate eating pretty much all vegetables and fruits. I have heard of paleo diets but dont know much about it. Anyone here know eat paleo or know if it is even an option for gaining a ton of lean muscle and having a very low body fat.

Just eat more proteins instead of fat and carbs. Best proportion 10% fat, 30% proteins, 60 carbs, but concentrate on protein because any food have all 3 in it. When you it carbs try to choose slow carbs instead fast. No SUGAR! drink only water!
Very important to eat 6-12 times a day. This way body will stop saving fat for the future. Doesn't mean eat more just spread daily amount of food between 6 to 12 times.

Measure your weight next week, if it doesn't change, lower the calories a little and continue.

 

[jorarulit]

Green tea supplement, or regular tea? I already drink a brew of green and black tea daily.

Try green tea extract (or leaf like avatar said) 30 mins before your breakfast and another pill before lunch. Stack that with cayenne pepper (either supplement or dried). Make sure to mix cayenne pepper into your food, either pop the extract with your meal or put some dried pepper in your food.

Can also take Raspberry ketones with CLA.

Here are some links:
NOW Cayenne at Bodybuilding.com: Lowest Prices for Cayenne
Final Form by Infinite Labs at Bodybuilding.com - Lowest Prices on Final Form!
Green Tea Extract by Bodybuilding.com Foundation Series - Lowest Price on Green Tea Extract!

This stack will pretty much work like a thermogenic pill, except it won't give you the focus and energy that comes from caffeine and synephrine (a weaker ephedrine analog). Cayenne pepper will also make you want to eat less.

Also if you can pick up some vitamins that have Chromium in them it may also help.

 

[jhoffy22]

Very important to eat 6-12 times a day. This way body will stop saving fat for the future. Doesn't mean eat more just spread daily amount of food between 6 to 12 times.

An Objective Look at Intermittent Fasting - AlanAragon.com - Fitness Based on Science & Experience

Research Summary

Meal Frequency

§ A haphazard/randomly variable meal frequency, not necessarily a lower frequency, negatively impacts thermogenesis, blood lipids, and insulin sensitivity.
§ Within a day, a higher frequency has no thermodynamic advantage over a lower frequency under controlled conditions.
§ The majority of controlled intervention trials show no improvement in body composition with a higher meal frequency.
§ Studies indicating the disappearance or lack of hunger in dieters occur in either complete starvation, or very low calorie VLCD regimes (800 kcal/day or less).
§ Hunger is a persistent problem with reduced meal frequency in non-starvation and other protocols with calories above VLCD levels.
§ For controlling appetite, the majority of research indicates the superiority of a higher meal frequency.
§ The body appears to be "metabolically primed" to receive calories and nutrients after an overnight fast. Breakfast is a particularly beneficial time to have dietary protein, since muscle protein synthethis rates are typically lowest at this time.
§ Overall, both experimental and observational research points to breakfast improving memory, test grades, school attendance, nutrient status, weight control, and muscle protein synthesis.

Intermittent Fasting

§ Animal research has shown a number of positive health effects of ADF and CR.
§ Human ADF research is scarce and less consistent than animal research, showing both benefits (insulin sensitivity is the most consistent outcome) and risks (impaired glucose tolerance in women).
§ So far, control groups are absent in all human ADF studies. Thus, no comparative conclusions can be drawn between ADF and linear caloric intake.
§ The of the single published controlled trial to date (Stote, et al) comparing 1 versus 3 meals is heavily confounded by an exceptionally high dropout rate in the 1-a-day group, and the use of BIA to measure body composition.
§ The 1-a-day group reported increasing hunger levels throughout the length of the trial, echoing the problem of hunger with a reduced meal frequency seen in other similar research.
§ Ramadan fasting (12-16 hours per day, sunrise to sunset) decreases daytime alertness, mood, wakefulness, competitive athletic performance, and increases the incidence of traffic accidents. It's difficult to determine the relative contributions of dehydration and a lack of food to these adverse phenomena.
§ The effects of exercise and meal frequency on body composition is an interesting but largely unexplored area of research.

Fasting & Exercise

§ Improvements in insulin sensitivity, glucose tolerance (except in women undergoing ADF), bodyweight/bodyfat, blood pressure, blood lipids, and heart rate are commonly cited benefits of IF & CR.
§ All of the above benefits can be achieved by exercise, minus the downsides of fasting.
§ IF and CR have both been found to have neuroprotective effects by increasing BDNF levels.
§ A growing body of research shows that exercise can also increase BDNF, and the degree of effect appears to be intensity-dependent.
§ Based on the limited available data, resistance training performance, especially if its not particularly voluminous, might not be enhanced by preworkout EAA+CHO.
§ Despite equivocal performance effects of pre- or midworkout EAA+CHO, it minimizes muscle damage that occurs from fasted resistance training.
§ Immediate preworkout protein and/or EAA+CHO increases protein synthesis more than fasted resistance training with those substrates ingested immediately postworkout.
§ It’s possible that a partial fast (as short as 4 hours) before resistance training can negatively impact muscle protein status.

 

[Grim111]

The majority of controlled intervention trials show no improvement in body composition with a higher meal frequency.

You need to do it continuously.
Working for me and others.

 

[jhoffy22]

You need to do it continuously.
Working for me and others.

It's completely unnecessary.

 

[hehejo]

Just eat more proteins instead of fat and carbs. Best proportion 10% fat, 30% proteins, 60 carbs, but concentrate on protein because any food have all 3 in it. When you it carbs try to choose slow carbs instead fast. No SUGAR! drink only water!
Very important to eat 6-12 times a day. This way body will stop saving fat for the future. Doesn't mean eat more just spread daily amount of food between 6 to 12 times.

Congratulations, everything you wrote is plain wrong apart from 30% protein.

 

[g1c9]

I supplement with

green coffee beans
raspberry ketone
acai berry
african mango
green tea

all of these supplements are proven safe and have significant health benefits not limited to weight loss

 

[jsphfcll]

I supplement with

green coffee beans
raspberry ketone
acai berry
african mango
green tea

all of these supplements are proven safe and have significant health benefits not limited to weight loss

where is the garcinia cambogia? I can hook you up if you want

 

[nvanprooyen]

If you want to get ripped you need to eat a high protein, low carb diet. Should be eating no more than 50grams of carbs per day. Keep lifting weights.

Very difficult to sustain long term. Longest I went was around 8 weeks till I need a carb re-feed. Once you have hit your body fat goals in terms of % it is much easier to maintain, you will find that you will be living your life in cycles of "off season" and "on season" where your BF% will vary. Most guys use off season to bulk and get stronger, then cut for the summer.

Keep building your muscle mass. If you really don't know where to go for more info try reading some of Kyle McDonalds books.

Lyle McDonald - Bodyrecomposition

Pretty simple though, nearly everyone has great abs hidden under layers of fat. Just need to get rid of the fat.

Lyle is the shit. Tons of good, no BS reading material over on BR.

 

[I_like_cock]

Paleo, Primal, Green Bean Toffee are all fine and dandy to get you ripped.

But all take time and its easier to stray off course if you aren't seeing results instantly.

If you wanna get really fucking ripped, really fucking fast...

Get this book ASAP...

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Underground-Bodyopus-Militant-Weight-Recomposition/dp/0965310701"]Underground Bodyopus Militant Weight Recomposition[/ame]


It's the fucking bible filled with science on how to shred yourself. I read it back in 1998 shred from a beer gut to a 6-pack in a few cycles.

It's hardcore and is similar to PB/Paleo but it makes those two look like kiddie shit. It's not for pussys. Lots of people whine about not having energy & headaches on PB/Paleo because they only get 50-100 carbs a day... well on BO you get 0... ZERO fucking carbs for 5 days straight. I'm not gonna explain the whole diet. Get the book and pick up some ketone strips while your at it and get ripped.

Trust me. I've tried all the low carb, caveman, Primal, paleo, fattyass diets... This thing rips them and your "fat fuck sit behind a pc refreshing your stats for 16 hr day" ass a new asshole. Lots of info in Google about it too.

If you want a challenge where you'll see results then have at it.

PS - This fucker did a 20+ week stint on BO. I followed his journal back in 98' when I did it. http://web.archive.org/web/20050206041729/http://low-carb.org/lylemcd/week00.htm. Here is the PDF version.
Fuck am I getting old.

 

[BlueYonder]

Here's the thing: There's no need to go hungry if you're willing to take the time and make the effort to rehab your diet. It's a constant effort to replace fast food and wheat calories with fresh food.

I did a shopping run yesterday to a local store that specializes in fruit and veggies and bought about 20 pounds of stuff for cooking and eating raw.

Here's an example of what I do with it, my recipe for homemade vegetable salsa:

5 lbs. of split raw tomatoes
4 whole jalapeno peppers
3 whole split onions
5 cloves of garlic
generous handful of fresh cilantro
olive oil
salt & pepper to taste

Brush the tomatoes, peppers, onions and garlic with olive oil and bake in a medium oven until at least half the water is evaporated. Let cool, and blend in food processor with cilantro and seasonings.

This is as good or better than supermarket salsa, and you can use it for many purposes. I made an egg with this stuff and later will use it to coat chicken cutlets to saute on the stove.

The diet is working. Yesterday I saw a major roll around my stomach has shrunk by half.