We DO systematically slaughter thousands of dogs every day in this country. PETA, for example, kills 97% of the dogs it gets.
Going Vegan
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We DO systematically slaughter thousands of dogs every day in this country. PETA, for example, kills 97% of the dogs it gets.
Wait, you're saying that vegans put "significantly more effort into not dying" than the rest of us?
I've been a vegan for 3 years and it's exactly the same "effort into not dying." Dude, if you eat a bowl of lentil soup at Hale&Hearty, you're not putting in extra effort into not dying. You're just eating a different meal.
There are practically no vegans here to back me up, but trust me when I say that there are plenty of grossly overweight vegans. The only extra effort we put in is having to defend our beliefs against the rest of you.
These reasons all center around one thing: "What's in it for us?"
My point this entire thread is that the "what's in it for us?" argument doesn't really justify any moral action because it completely disregards the other party. I can't say, "You've given me the most utility by being a great source of lunch money" and then proceed to steal your lunch money. Morality doesn't work that way.
You're grilling people here for not giving serious answers, and this is how you reply?
If I ask a calf if it would like if I buttfucked it before I shot it in the ass, it would respond the same as if I asked if the calf would like a delicious piece of cake. IT WOULD BLANKLY STARE BACK AT ME BECAUSE IT'S A COW.
Please tell me what cows are made for, and justify it.
Can't believe I woke my computer from sleep and myself from half sleep to respond to this. Eating extra bacon tomorrow morning because of this. I hope you're happy, another pig is going to die because of you.
What PETA does or doesn't do has no bearing on the ethics of veganism. That's like saying that what Barack Obama believes is the foundation for ethics in this country. It doesn't matter.
There are cows out there that are not kept constantly lactating, does that mean that milk from these cows would be ok for you?
Not all eggs are from caged chickens, you can buy cage free, free range eggs, hell if you wanted you could have two chickens on your balcony and have your own eggs.
Yes it does.
You might want to look into reciprocal altruism (or really anything related to human psychology) before saying how morality does and doesn't work.
I can tell you weren't practically a psychology minor.
I was at my local market the other day and the heffer ringing me up told how going vegan helped her lose so much weight. Very hard for me to keep a straight face.
I'm vegan and yes it does get annoying having to defend yourself all the time. People always point out that you are different. People at my work apologize for eating meat in front of me which is fucking retarded.
I still LOVE the smell of meat. And even if it did gross me out everyone has the right toe at whatever the fuck they want in front of whoever they want.
I agree with you on certain points and I understand why you're mad. The animals that go through slaughter houses may be dumb, but we do some really fucked up shit.
We feed our cows corn which is GUARANTEED to give them ulcers and cysts, but if you give those same cows grass then all of their stomach problems go away.
So yeah I agree with you it is very fucked up, but at the same time people like you piss me off. I'm the 1% vegan, just like the 1% black guy that doesn't act ghetto but is surrounded by 35 year old little kids in echo tshirts, just like the 1% christian that doesn't go knocking on doors and doesn't protest outside planned parenthood every thursday because he's an unemployed loser waiting for god to fix his problems.
People like you take it a little too far, sound a little too preachy, come off aggressive, and make all of the non-vegans think that ALL vegans are over the top defensive and annoying.
My response wasn't meant to be taken literally. I'm not asking you to go up to a calf and start speaking to it in English and stand there with a yellow notepad asking it questions. Maybe I should have made that clear.
My point was to consider at the other party when making a moral decision.
Of course the greatest use of a cow to HUMANS is to do whatever the fuck we want to do with it. But a moral justification cannot be based on one party. It has to be based on both parties.
So I'll say it again: consider the life of a cow, from birth to death, and its preferences will be crystal clear. It doesn't want to eat corn out of a vat (it wants to eat grass), it doesn't want to be continuously artificially impregnated to speed up milk production (it wants to live a natural life), it doesnt want to have its calves stripped from them so that we can collect all its milk in large containers (it wants to provide its calves its milk), and it doesn't want to be hung upside down from its hind legs and have its neck slit (it wants to live).
Consider the other party when making a moral claim, not just yourself.
What are dandelions made for? What are mountains made for?
The answer isn't picking. And the answer isn't climbing.
I was invited to go try out kangaroo burgers with some friends over the weekend. I told them I couldn't go but I have now resolved to rearrange my schedule to make sure I can make it.
Congratulations brandonbaker. On top of killing a cow and a pig, you've now also killed a kangaroo.
Congratulations brandonbaker. On top of killing a cow and a pig, you've now also killed a kangaroo.
Better, yes. I still wouldn't drink it because I'm not for the subjugation of animals for human use in the first place, under any circumstances, but that would be a big improvement. It would also make a gallon of milk cost about $7.99.
The term "free range" has practically no legal meaning. Don't believe everything you read on product labels.
Then don't use how we treat dogs vs cows in the US as your main argument claiming that there's some non-existent double standard.
I do consider cows. I've already said they don't know what's going on in the universe and contribute nothing to the world aside from being a part of the food chain. That's why it's morally acceptable to harvest cows for their meat.
You know not every slaughterhouse operates like the ones you see in Youtube videos.
Have you ever stepped on a dandelion? Have you stopped to consider the morality in stomping out a living organism? Have you ever bought flowers for someone? If so, did you consider that those flowers are living things that have to be ripped from their life source and then live a short, torturous life where they're starved of nutrients and then die?
Reciprocal altruism:
Please explain to me how this applies to the relationship between man and animal at the slaughterhouse.
And dude, you know nothing about me or my education. Give it a break.
I never compared cows to human slaves.
I compared the attitude of slave-owners to the attitude of some people in this thread.
You haven't responded to any of my points in this entire thread other than attacking me or taking my posts out of context.
Read the string of posts above me for the last 2 pages and make a determination as to who is being overly aggressive here.
I was not talking about man and animal at slaughterhouse. I was talking about your asinine attempt to compare killing animals with stealing lunch money and how that proved that "morality didn't work that way".
For reference:
You keep on comparing interactions with humans (which we deem as immoral) to similar interactions with animals (which we deem as ok) and use that to try to show how there is a moral gap.
The problem is morality is something we evolved into. Reciprocal altruism only applies to others that are capable of reciprocating. Cows are not capable of reciprocating good or bad treatment which is why we did not evolve to give much moral thought to our treatment of them.
So, yes. Morality does work that way.
Once again:
In our evolutionary past, dogs gave us the most utility by helping us hunt for food. Pigs and cows gave us the most utility by being food.
That is the only reason for the difference in our behavior towards both.