Happy Birthday Bitcoin!

[cassius]

The ones that don't should have their head examined... Zero fees and zero chance of identity theft or chargeback? Are you people nuts?

Regardless of anyone's opinion about bitcoin, the value is insanely volatile at the moment. Extreme volatility is undesirable to some, especially if their entire income is subject to that volatility.

In regard to government action, they still have a few cards to play if they decide to. Barriers to entry could be much more extreme.

 

[teatree]

Really? And what happens when governments care enough to make bitcoin illegal because it's "used by pedophiles and terrorists" and no legit merchants will accept it and no banks will process any payments? You say it's already cleared hurdles, but the government hasn't even cared enough to throw up any hurdles yet. You really think the powers behind the USD and the Euro will allow that to happen?

Dunno about the USD and the Americans, but in Germany it's already officially legal and they've updated their tax stuff so they can easily tax businesses getting revenue from it.

You need to understand that not everyone into bitcoin is into anarchy and all that political stuff.

The Germans (famous for being statists) simply see it as a clever new technology that is secure and efficient, with benefits that the current technlogy for transferring money doesn't have. Because it's non-political you get take-up both from left-wing hippie types in Berlin who hate dealing with banks, and the capitalists in Frankfurt who think this might be an exciting new asset that won't be manipulated like gold currently is.

(There's a lesson there for Americans - don't politicize bitcoin if you want maximum take-up)

As for Britain - the banks are nervous, but the govt is toying with licencing one of the big existing forex exchanges to trade bitcoin on the grounds that a) it's here, and b) if it's here we might as well allow trade, because London makes it's money on fees from being the premier trading centre where you can buy and sell anything.

So bitcoin isn't going to disappear on this side of the Atlantic. I'd be surprised if teh Americans tried to halt it either - all those silicon valley types will lobby against the bank types who want the status quo - and the Valley boys may have more clout.

 

[schockergd]

Bitcoin just surpassed a $3b net market value.

 

[igl00]

245$ per coin now.
luckily i bought in more at 213 yday lol.

 

[cassius]

Dunno about the USD and the Americans, but in Germany it's already officially legal and they've updated their tax stuff so they can easily tax businesses getting revenue from it.

You need to understand that not everyone into bitcoin is into anarchy and all that political stuff.

The Germans (famous for being statists) simply see it as a clever new technology that is secure and efficient, with benefits that the current technlogy for transferring money doesn't have. Because it's non-political you get take-up both from left-wing hippie types in Berlin who hate dealing with banks, and the capitalists in Frankfurt who think this might be an exciting new asset that won't be manipulated like gold currently is.

(There's a lesson there for Americans - don't politicize bitcoin if you want maximum take-up)

As for Britain - the banks are nervous, but the govt is toying with licencing one of the big existing forex exchanges to trade bitcoin on the grounds that a) it's here, and b) if it's here we might as well allow trade, because London makes it's money on fees from being the premier trading centre where you can buy and sell anything.

So bitcoin isn't going to disappear on this side of the Atlantic. I'd be surprised if teh Americans tried to halt it either - all those silicon valley types will lobby against the bank types who want the status quo - and the Valley boys may have more clout.

I agree with the rest of your post for the most part, but lol at the bold. The banks run this country.

 

[mattseh]

Luke, from what I can tell (personal experience), people who are buyers here either don't have bitcoin, or don't want to spend them.

Maybe one day that'll change. If so, great.

 

[lukep]

Regardless of anyone's opinion about bitcoin, the value is insanely volatile at the moment. Extreme volatility is undesirable to some, especially if their entire income is subject to that volatility.

Tons of 3rd-party solutions exist for like bitpay.com. Volatility is no excuse.

Here, check out their offering, it's likely free of all charges for the type of small business run here in WF:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHwB5fOvyr0"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHwB5fOvyr0[/ame]

In regard to government action, they still have a few cards to play if they decide to. Barriers to entry could be much more extreme.

Which, as I said, would destroy the government, as other governments embrace it more to steal this government's wealth.

 

[apcsllc]

happy birthday I guess.

 

[greenleaves]

Tons of 3rd-party solutions exist for like bitpay.com. Volatility is no excuse.

Here, check out their offering, it's likely free of all charges for the type of small business run here in WF:

Bit-Pay Merchant Solutions for the Bitcoin Currency - YouTube



Which, as I said, would destroy the government, as other governments embrace it more to steal this government's wealth.

For my main site, I just integrated bitpay (maybe a week ago). I've had 0 sales via that method (but quite a few per day with CC)

 

[cassius]

Tons of 3rd-party solutions exist for like bitpay.com. Volatility is no excuse.

Here, check out their offering, it's likely free of all charges for the type of small business run here in WF:

Bit-Pay Merchant Solutions for the Bitcoin Currency - YouTube



Which, as I said, would destroy the government, as other governments embrace it more to steal this government's wealth.

Volatility is absolutely an, "excuse" if you're interested in sustainability. A growing business requires liquidity. Accepting a currency with +/- 400% purchasing power fluctuations over the past year is a significant risk and renders projections completely useless unless Bitcoin transactions represent an extremely small portion or of course you are exchanging the Bitcoin for a more stable currency immediately.

lol at barring entry to Bitcoin destroying a government. Bitcoin has a seriously long way to go. The current market value of all Bitcoins is less than 0.02% of US GDP.

 

[greenleaves]

Volatility is absolutely an, "excuse" if you're interested in sustainability. A growing business requires liquidity. Accepting a currency with +/- 400% purchasing power fluctuations over the past year is a significant risk and renders projections completely useless unless Bitcoin transactions represent an extremely small portion or of course you are exchanging the Bitcoin for a more stable currency immediately.

lol at barring entry to Bitcoin destroying a government. Bitcoin has a seriously long way to go. The current market value of all Bitcoins is less than 0.02% of US GDP.

With bitpay you put your prices in dollars, they pay in bitcoins, bitpay pays you in dollars.

I agree it can easily be squashed by a gov, either by outlawing, or simply corner the market.

Inb4 bitpay was set up by the feds to get all bitcoins and keep track of those who use them.

 

[lukep]

Volatility is absolutely an, "excuse" if you're interested in sustainability. A growing business requires liquidity. Accepting a currency with +/- 400% purchasing power fluctuations over the past year is a significant risk and renders projections completely useless unless Bitcoin transactions represent an extremely small portion or of course you are exchanging the Bitcoin for a more stable currency immediately.

Why is this so hard for you to get? The bitcoin would only be a bitcoin for a fraction of a second and even then guaranteed against loss... Liquidity would be 100% in USD or your preferred currency... Watch the damn film and stop wasting my time.

lol at barring entry to Bitcoin destroying a government. Bitcoin has a seriously long way to go. The current market value of all Bitcoins is less than 0.02% of US GDP.

That's like saying "lol at this newfangled guttenburg press destroying the franciscan monk industry..."

 

[cassius]

With bitpay you put your prices in dollars, they pay in bitcoins, bitpay pays you in dollars.

I will say Bitpay is a great solution, but if Bitpay is paying the merchant in local currency based on an instantaneous exchange rate, they aren't really accepting payment in Bitcoin.

Why is this so hard for you to get? The bitcoin would only be a bitcoin for a fraction of a second and even then guaranteed against loss... Liquidity would be 100% in USD or your preferred currency... Watch the damn film and stop wasting my time.

If I fund my PayPal account with Dollars and purchase from a retailer in Euros is the retailer accepting payment in Dollars? Notice the qualifying statement of my last post. ". . . or you are exchanging. . . " I agree with you on Bitpay.

That's like saying "lol at this newfangled guttenburg press destroying the franciscan monk industry..."

Now you are forecasting.

 

[o hai guyz]

Volatility is absolutely an, "excuse" if you're interested in sustainability. A growing business requires liquidity. Accepting a currency with +/- 400% purchasing power fluctuations over the past year is a significant risk and renders projections completely useless unless Bitcoin transactions represent an extremely small portion or of course you are exchanging the Bitcoin for a more stable currency immediately.

lol at barring entry to Bitcoin destroying a government. Bitcoin has a seriously long way to go. The current market value of all Bitcoins is less than 0.02% of US GDP.

Yeah, this part makes sense. When I originally considered adding Coinbase payments to one of my sites, my first thought was "but the price fluctuates so much, how does that even make sense?" Then when I saw that the BTC would be immediately converted into USD, I thought "oh ok, good."

So at this point in time I view bitcoin more as a commodity than an actual currency. I do support the ideology behind bitcoin payments replacing shitty credit card payments, but at the moment I view all of my btc holdings as investment products and not as actual currency that I would spend on anything.

 

[guerilla]

I've said before that a big hurdle for Bitcoin to actually become money (a widely accepted medium of exchange) is that the volatility doesn't create an environment where people can hold, save, invest etc with any confidence in the projected future value.

That said, there is no surety in the future value of the dollar either, but thats not the PERCEPTION that people have. Dollars are generally accepted to be as GOOD AS GOLD. Bitcoin, not so much.

 

[o hai guyz]

I've said before that a big hurdle for Bitcoin to actually become money (a widely accepted medium of exchange) is that the volatility doesn't create an environment where people can hold, save, invest etc with any confidence in the projected future value.

That said, there is no surety in the future value of the dollar either, but thats not the PERCEPTION that people have. Dollars are generally accepted to be as GOOD AS GOLD. Bitcoin, not so much.

I don't see that happening anytime soon. As it becomes more and more mainstream (bitcoin atm's, paypal/ebay accepting btc, etc) the price is going to continue increasing rapidly, which instantly turns it into an investment and not an actual currency, *yes I realize all currencies can be classed as "investments" but the general population doesn't hoard up on Euros hoping that the EUR/USD will quadruple by next month.

On top of that it's always going to be considered high-risk until people no longer believe that the US gov will try to shut it down. Whether they can actually succeed or not is irrelevant as a currency is only as valuable as the population perceives it to be, like you stated.

So I don't think it will turn into a stable, usable currency any time within the next 2-3 years at least.

Another issue I see is that currently a lot of people are buying it as an investment, because that's what it is. As the price continues to rapidly increase, more people are buying more of it AS AN INVESTMENT. If it gets to the point where it's actually a stable currency and the price hits a resistance level, a lot of investors are just going to sell it off to convert back into USD or gold, and that will cause the price to start significantly fluctuating again.

 

[slayerment]

Bitcoin isn't just an investment. It is a solid currency with huge advantages over all the other currencies currently available.

1. Transactions are essentially free. No more transaction fleecing.
2. Transactions are irreversible. No more bullshit chargebacks.
3. Transactions are traceable. You can confirm whether or not currency is sent.
4. Transactions are fast. Confirmed in less than 10 min.
5. Transactions are global. It doesn't matter where you live. It's all the same.
6. It uses real market data
7. It has no central authority
and on and on...

Name another non-cryptocurrency that provides this. You can't do it.

This is a prime example of technology making our lives better and yet people want to poke holes at it anywhere they can. It beats everything else hands down, by a long shot. Notwithstanding USSA intervention, bitcoin, or something similar to it, will become a predominant currency. Humanity just took a levelup in its currency algorithm. Just as the Internet changed information, bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies will change currency.

As to all this talk about volatility... It's funny how there is really no downside volatility. The value of bitcoin is really only going up relative to all other asset classes. This is exactly what a good currency is supposed to do. You are supposed to be rewarded when you save in a currency. Currency isn't supposed to inflate every year like fedcoat notes. People are seriously complaining about the volatility of a currency growing stronger? Damn, my currency went up 10x in the past year... It's so volatile! Better exchange it into some of them inflation notes so I can have stability in my wealth extraction...

 

[lukep]

The way I see it is that services like bitpay are a patch to a system that makes doing business now possible, up until the day when the patch is no longer needed because the vendor will prefer keeping his bitcoins to having USD. This is only phase 1, however.

While rents and supplies are still more accessible to that vendor in USD right now, he finds value in bitpay's setting to send him USD. The day that individual vendor finds his supplies and rents are available in bitcoin, he'll switch that setting off and live in the bitcoin economy. -Which will at that time make bitcoin money, and afterall was the point from the very beginning. Phase 2 complete.

We're going to go through a few years of growth now as the merchants of the world all go through those two phases. Yes, individually. Every last vendor on the planet will eventually come to the conclusion that they'll make more money and reach more customers by taking bitcoin, and then again later by KEEPING bitcoin. It'll always be a 2-phase process, except for us freedom addicts who (at least try to) make the jump in 1 phase.

Some countries will be behind (like the USSA) and some will jump out ahead of the pack (like germany and China) and those nations that embrace bitcoin sooner are going to see more wealth flee us to go to those people. It'll be very interesting at the point when bitcoin overtakes paypal and cut into the visa system profits... When the central banks start to really sweat the loss of control. At that point I can't predict what they'll try, but there is no attack they can make on bitcoin as a network that will work. All they can do is try to have governments turn off the whole net worldwide, which will also be pointless, because mesh networking is starting to get huge now after the summer of Snowden. We won't need their stinkin' ISPs.

Way smarter minds that mine discuss this on a daily basis over at bitcointalk and some Mises groups. There is little doubt out there at all anymore that bitcoin will fail to become the dominent world currency, displacing a good percentage of all others. Really the only question is how long it will take, and which countries are going to plunge themselves back into the dark ages fighting it.

 

[cassius]

As to all this talk about volatility... It's funny how there is really no downside volatility. The value of bitcoin is really only going up relative to all other asset classes.

Really, no downside volatility? You can't cherry pick periods when discussing volatility. The general trend is up, but the same can be said for the S&P 500.

 

[guerilla]

One of my biggest pet peeves about the "libertarian movement" is how few people understand economics.

One of my other big annoyances is how people cheerlead stuff because it is perceived to be anti-state, regardless of whether it is any good on its own.

Nothing I can do to fix it. People aren't interested in fundamentals, they want change now. And the people pulling the strings continue to feed people short term manias to keep them from thinking about the fundamentals.

Bitcoin is not a money, and it is nowhere near to being a money. It is for all intents and purposes, the first widespread electronic speculation. Knowing people who were there at the beginning, I suspect that was always its purpose. Even the "useful idiots" who promote Bitcoin don't realize that it wasn't created to save humanity or to even create a counter economy. Those are the post hoc rationalizations for Bitcoin by the true believer/fanatics.

BTC was always meant to be a way to monetize encryption. Literally, money from nothing.