Happy Birthday Bitcoin!
- Thread starter lukep
- Start date
lukep, please don't take this the wrong way - but do you have an actual job/work/profession like - affiliate marketing, etc?
Or do you fondle with your bitcoins (really just your monitor, since bitcoins aren't tangible) all day dreaming about the untold riches that are in store for you?
Or do you fondle with your bitcoins (really just your monitor, since bitcoins aren't tangible) all day dreaming about the untold riches that are in store for you?
Sometimes I can't tell if you're actually a hoarder trying to spread FUD, or you really mean this sentiment.
Do you just not agree with the 7 points slayerment posted above? In my opinion, and in the opinion of everyone younger than 35 years old that I've spoken to about bitcoin, it is a far more desirable asset than gold because of it's all-around superior properties.
If for no other reason at all, it should be superior to gold because its' truly scarce, whereas they keep digging up gold and are now going after asteroids for it.
Then there's the whole hideability aspect. You can escape a totalitarian regime with your brainwallet, and they'll never even know you just snuck a billion dollars out from under their noses... Try that with gold... Or anything else at all, period.
Times change old man. Bitcoin is rapidly becoming the money to end all monies, and when it gets there it will destroy fiat completely, and likely most governments too, since they will have a hard time taxing a bitcoin-loving world.
You don't have to be an activist to appreciate it.
If you're suggesting that bitcoin is a short-term mania, then back it up. What will stop it, and who is pulling those strings?
I've seen the code; mathematics doesn't lie. There are no strings.
But it adapts and evolves... At least 5 times now a major threat has been thrown bitcoin's way, and the code was edited by the open source community to adapt and the mining community accepted it once everyone agreed on the code.
This is why altcoins can't overtake bitcoin; their best traits can all be assimilated.
This feels a lot like an appeal to authority.
I've read my fair share of cypherpunk history and more than my fair share of the early days of bitcoin; Satoshi's posts are all still there on bitcointalk and the mail archive. I have seen nothing from these posts that looks like the early devs were in it for personal gain at all... They clearly had cypherpunk values.
So monetizing encryption may have been the goal; but it was not the end goal.
I fondled your mother last night... Does that count?
Of course I don't sit and dream about my stash making me rich one day... I'm actively working every day to EARN bitcoin, instead of USD.
Those of you who don't see the point yet are not going to be the rich ones in the world that will emerge in just a few short years time. There's already millions of us ahead of you, and actually, we've got all the coins already! :bootyshake:
It's sort of sad that I let you be my facebook friend and you don't know this.
I don't agree. Also, young people tend to be idealists.
Like I said, people don't (and don't want to) understand economics. They want to be dreamers and idealists, not actually commit to the intellectual labor of trying to understand fundamentals and resolve contradictions.
Neomania.
And yet consistently, it's only activist types that are going on and on and on about it.
The burden of proof isn't on me. It's on you. And you can't fulfill the burden of proof until time lapses. No matter how much you post about Bitcoin, you can't make it legitimate just because you SO MUCH WANT IT TO BE SO.
That's actually the terrifying thing to me about activist types. You guys aren't actually libertarians. You're Utopians.
LOL
You know the distance you keep from things like reason, logic and economics? Keep that same distance from citing logical fallacies pls.
I have read the Constitution of the United States and I have seen nothing from that documents that looks like the founders were in it for personal gain.
You should have seen the monster 20k word "discussion" we had on Facebook where not even 1 day after becoming friends, he tries to start a stealth BITCOIN CONVERSION on me.
If the success of Bitcoin is inevitable, Luke doesn't need to do anything, or say anything. It is guaranteed going to happen.
The fact that he has to relentlessly market Bitcoin like some MLM further undermines the credibility that Bitcoin is going to be successful NO MATTER WHAT.
Man doesn't act the way he acts because he's short on technology. Technology can't make us better people (unless you're a Utopian). That has to come from within, and frankly, with what I have seen from humanity, I don't think it's likely that is going to happen anytime soon. The people who may believe otherwise live in an online libertarian bubble where they don't interact with normals and realize how completely detached those normals are from any libertarian ideas, concerns, issues or values.
In other words, just because all of your friends are autists, doesn't mean everyone in the world is autistic.
If the success of Bitcoin is inevitable, Luke doesn't need to do anything, or say anything. It is guaranteed going to happen.
The fact that he has to relentlessly market Bitcoin like some MLM further undermines the credibility that Bitcoin is going to be successful NO MATTER WHAT.
Man doesn't act the way he acts because he's short on technology. Technology can't make us better people (unless you're a Utopian). That has to come from within, and frankly, with what I have seen from humanity, I don't think it's likely that is going to happen anytime soon. The people who may believe otherwise live in an online libertarian bubble where they don't interact with normals and realize how completely detached those normals are from any libertarian ideas, concerns, issues or values.
In other words, just because all of your friends are autists, doesn't mean everyone in the world is autistic.
Just wait until I set off the thousands of EMP devices I have placed in locations of critical strategic importance around the world.
lol j/k NSA no secret prison plz kthxbai.
Transacting in bitcoins is a pain in the ass for most things currently. As solutions are implemented to make it more consumer friendly, fees will inevitably be attached, making this point moot.
And this is an advantage? This is one of the largest impediments to wide scale adoption, since consumers will have no protection from the unscrupulous. That may give you the warm and fuzzies as a seller, but one thing 99% of consumers want is protection.
Nothing unique about that. We live in a digital world.
Nothing unique about that. We live in a digital world.
Nothing unique about that. We live in a digital world.
Nothing unique about that. We live in a digital world.
As someone that despises government intervention in everything, this appeals to me. But I'm also in the minority, as are most of us on Wickedfire. The vast majority of people see this as a downside, not an upside.
Anything in the history of the US Government's behavior lead you to believe they wouldn't intervene if Bitcoin or anything else like it threatens their power? Don't be so naive. Every great technological advancement has been used by governments like the US to get even more control over people, not less. The Internet has done more to empower the US Government with their information gathering and mass manipulation than anything else in history. If history has taught us anything it's that governments become more powerful and seize more control over their subjects as time goes on, not the other way around.
Now you're just trolling. Way way way back in April, I remember the "sky is falling" posts because Bitcoin lost 70% of it's value in a couple of days. What part of that leads you to believe there is no downside volatility?
And upside volatility may seem like a great thing but consider the effect that has on people using it as a currency. Three years ago I bought two large pizzas for $25. In today's dollars, that's around $25.50, but I didn't care that the pizza would be a little more expensive in 3 years since I was hungry and I wanted pizza so I gladly spent the $25. However, knowing that those same two pizzas cost $2,500,000 in Bitcoins 3 years ago would lead me to be a bit more judicious with how I spend my Bitcoins.
In the first set of circumstances, I'm glad I paid $25 for the pizzas and the pizza joint was glad they received $25 for the pizzas. There were no articles written about it. It was just mutually agreeable transaction with no regrets on either side, which should be the objective with any transaction.
Now maybe the guy that paid $2.5 million for those pizzas will tell the public he doesn't regret it, but I would and so would most people. And on a smaller scale I'd regret having paid for a product just a couple of months ago with my $100 Bitcoins knowing that they're worth $250 now. Because of that, it doesn't work as a currency. It is a speculative investment and there's nothing wrong with that, but that's all it is right now.
Well, the one good thing about WF, is it lets me know I'm not the craziest person around. I don't get what some of the fanatics here think, when they say Bitcoin is taking over. What? Do they think ExxonMobil is going to begin trading crude oil in Bitcoin, or something? Not god damn likely.
However, I do strongly believe Bitcoin will become a very popular (and mainstream) payment method for online commerce, and there's nothing the government can do about it. Over the next few years, you'll begin to see "Pay with Bitcoin" buttons / options popping up on websites all over the place, same as when PayPal was first getting themselves established.
However, I do strongly believe Bitcoin will become a very popular (and mainstream) payment method for online commerce, and there's nothing the government can do about it. Over the next few years, you'll begin to see "Pay with Bitcoin" buttons / options popping up on websites all over the place, same as when PayPal was first getting themselves established.
Horry shirt! I go to sleep and this thread gets inundated with a whoooole lotta wrongness while my back is turned.
For me to refute all of the glaring errors here will take up my entire freaking day. I'd just basically have to write of wednesday as a WF day, and not a work was given. Aintnolukegottimefordat.
Remember me leaving back in April or may? This is the reason. A timesuck I just can't do anymore.
I'm going to stop responding to individual statements and only respond to themes now, as I find the time. Anything more would be a losing game of attrition for me since I've got work to do, in two different economies.
Young people's opinions about bitcoin: Matter because they were raised on the net. They have SO much more use for something truly useful online than they'll ever have for jewelry and paperweights. Plus, they'll outlive us.
Scarcity: Bitcoin is mathematically proven to never, ever have more than 21M units. Ever. To doubt this is to be ignorant of what the code says, and what the incentive structure in place now enforces.
In millions of years from now, bitcoins could be used across several galaxies, and we'd only be trading portions of the original 21M. Meanwhile gold is made by every star out there. What a common thing!
Bitcoin fanatics advocating it too fanatically: If we had just discovered the fountain of youth or an anti-gravity belt that is easily duplicated, you'd say we were evil or at least selfish to keep that to ourselves. Bitcoin is even more important to mankind and we'd feel evil for keeping that to ourselves. YOU may not deserve to hear any more about it, but lots of people here do so I'm going to keep the advocation going strong as long as I can.
Vulnerability to EMP devices: Don't make me laugh. People are already hiding copies of the blockchain deep in the earth and planning to send a copy to the moon. If only ONE copy survives, everyone's money is intact.
Vulnarability to government/banks: Everyone here who remembers my past posts know I worried about this more than any of you do now. I overcame this by learning exactly how decentralized it is. Can banks & governments fight math? Good luck nuking calculus or jailing trigonometry.
To give you an idea of the kinds of numbers we're talking about here, imagine that the universe was filled with earths, at least one per star. And on every earth there were googols and googles of grains of sand... If you counted every grain of sand in that universe, you still would not have as many sand grains as you'd have bitcoin addresses.
For me to refute all of the glaring errors here will take up my entire freaking day. I'd just basically have to write of wednesday as a WF day, and not a work was given. Aintnolukegottimefordat.
Remember me leaving back in April or may? This is the reason. A timesuck I just can't do anymore.
I'm going to stop responding to individual statements and only respond to themes now, as I find the time. Anything more would be a losing game of attrition for me since I've got work to do, in two different economies.
Young people's opinions about bitcoin: Matter because they were raised on the net. They have SO much more use for something truly useful online than they'll ever have for jewelry and paperweights. Plus, they'll outlive us.
Scarcity: Bitcoin is mathematically proven to never, ever have more than 21M units. Ever. To doubt this is to be ignorant of what the code says, and what the incentive structure in place now enforces.
In millions of years from now, bitcoins could be used across several galaxies, and we'd only be trading portions of the original 21M. Meanwhile gold is made by every star out there. What a common thing!
Bitcoin fanatics advocating it too fanatically: If we had just discovered the fountain of youth or an anti-gravity belt that is easily duplicated, you'd say we were evil or at least selfish to keep that to ourselves. Bitcoin is even more important to mankind and we'd feel evil for keeping that to ourselves. YOU may not deserve to hear any more about it, but lots of people here do so I'm going to keep the advocation going strong as long as I can.
Vulnerability to EMP devices: Don't make me laugh. People are already hiding copies of the blockchain deep in the earth and planning to send a copy to the moon. If only ONE copy survives, everyone's money is intact.
Vulnarability to government/banks: Everyone here who remembers my past posts know I worried about this more than any of you do now. I overcame this by learning exactly how decentralized it is. Can banks & governments fight math? Good luck nuking calculus or jailing trigonometry.
To give you an idea of the kinds of numbers we're talking about here, imagine that the universe was filled with earths, at least one per star. And on every earth there were googols and googles of grains of sand... If you counted every grain of sand in that universe, you still would not have as many sand grains as you'd have bitcoin addresses.
Even with mass adoption and service fees I will still be able to personally transact for cheap. Services in the marketplace for consumers won't make it more expensive for me. And even so, fees will still be less than any other form of currency for consumers.
Chargebacks is a big topic. Even so, chargebacks could be handled by 3rd party companies that will do a better and cheaper job than how CC companies handle it now. Chargebacks have gone from people reporting fraud to people knowing they are going to chargeback before they even make their purchase.
Right now you have to believe the company reporting they received or didn't receive your payment. With bitcoin it is all public so you know for sure.
Fair enough, but you're still relying on an in-between central layer that is susceptible to errors or delays. With bitcoin there is no company or authority to interfere with transactions.
Not everyone in every country can qualify for a bank account or the abilitiy to do commerce. There are no restrictions on who or who can't participate in commerce globally with bitcoin. Moreover, global transactions in non-bitcoin still have greater fees and restrictions on what you can and can't do with your currency.
All currencies are heavily manipulated right now. They don't use real market data. Currencies don't reflect supply and demand, they reflect political influence.
The absense of a central authority still has its advantages whether people acknowledge it or not.
I know they will intervene, they already have and it will only escalate. I have no doubts about it. I agree with you. This is the main reason why I could see bitcoin never taking off. The US has a myriad of tools to use and will spend whatever it takes to protect their power. This is the biggest problem for bitcoin.
I look at it differently. At the beginning of the year bitcoin was around $20. It went from $20 to $260 to $50 now back to around $250. It never went back to $20, and it probably won't go there again (outside of state intervention). So in the past year it's never gone back down to what it started the year at. Everything has been on the upside. Sure there's been some blips where it's gone from $260 to $50 but $260 is still > $20 and $50 is also > $20. It's all growth aside from small daily or weekly blips. If you want to measure it in days then sure, there may be some days or weeks where it goes down. For the most part it's irrelevant. Bitcoin has had far more up days then it has had down days. Bitcoin has had far more growth than it has had decay. Bitcoin has gone up 1,000% relative to the dollar in the last year. Name one other currency that has done that. Even if it was 50% in one year that would be huge. Even if bitcoin went from $20 to $30 in one year that would be huge. If any other currency had even 50% growth relative to other currencies we would be hearing all about it. The volatility talk is just short term noise and means very little.
So from your example if a currency goes up in purchasing power that is a bad thing because the user of that currency has regrets for having spent something that later becomes worth more currency. Nobody is worse off by using a currency that increases in value with time yet that is a bad thing? Currencies should instead stay the same value?
Nobody is forcing you to use bitcoin. If you don't want to use it because you will be unable to transact without power then don't use it. Everything has advantages and disadvantages.
I use bitcoin quite often to transact, but there are still limitations (Power and communications are one of them).
I can't imagine trying to sync a wallet using dialup or a satellite phone. I have enough problems trying to do it on DSL as it is now.
